Colorado WRX 2023

[Dancin]

9 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

Does anyone know how to test things anymore?!?! That seems like something that would EASILY be born out of decent testing.

It was picking up shots because right before I hit I could see all the tracks of recent shots from others on the range so if you had something with a good wifi antenna it's probably fine. It is a little weird when you are on the grass because it tells you to hit your first shot way left or right, so it is easier for you to pick out the track on the screen to be able to tell the system your location in the grass. It's definitely designed more for hitting from permanent hitting bays where you just tell it which bay you are in.

 

There was a pro giving a lesson to a high school kid near me and the kid had asked if he was going to use the system in lessons at all and the pro said probably not because he didn't think it was accurate enough to be worthwhile.

[CDM]

UUUGGGHHHH it is going to take some discipline to not want to get out and try and hit in few weeks........!     😂

[ztull]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:36 AM, ASak10 said:

I figured some of it was related to the design of being built to hold water. Did not know about the over detaining,

which makes sense as to why the water is still there. I just hope we don’t have a repeat of 2013 (or whenever the big flood was the killed a bunch of the greens). 

Entire course was underwater, that was crazy. Super had a fatal heart attack the night of the storm if I'm remembering correctly 😞 

[CDM]

..............spent some time on the yard and soooo DAMN nice out.  So need the hand to heal...!!!!

[bobbyclampett!!]

Well @Dancin I think we may have our answer on Rain Dance. Fairways were long and shaggy and wet and slow today even though the sun was shining and it was warm and I don’t think it rained yesterday. Playing from the fairway was like playing from first cut of rough most places. Mayyybbee it was because its been raining so much, but I’m doubtful. I think the dream of firm and fast and short fescue atop tight sandy turf will not come to be, or will only come true during the spring or late fall during dormancy. Sad. 

[Dancin]

4 hours ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Well @Dancin I think we may have our answer on Rain Dance. Fairways were long and shaggy and wet and slow today even though the sun was shining and it was warm and I don’t think it rained yesterday. Playing from the fairway was like playing from first cut of rough most places. Mayyybbee it was because its been raining so much, but I’m doubtful. I think the dream of firm and fast and short fescue atop tight sandy turf will not come to be, or will only come true during the spring or late fall during dormancy. Sad. 

I think it is a little early to definitively say that. They might be watering heavier now that it is finally warm enough for the grass to grow. It's also better long term for the course if they let it be a little long and keep it watered for the first couple years to let the grass get solidly established, especially when they are allowing carts on it from the open.

 

Hopefully that is the main reason and not a monetary issue given their challenges in signing up members. It's a lot cheaper to let the grass grow longer. Less water, less chemicals, less maintenance labor, gas etc...

[ASak10]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:54 PM, Dancin said:

I like the Norman course more. The only thing that sucks about Red Sky is their members want it to look like Augusta so they throw a ton of water on it all year and your ball barely moves when landing in the fairway. That place could be epic if they let it run.

 

Well, the Norman course was amazing.  I'm with you on liking it more than Fazio.  Course was a little wet, especially on the back 9, but they said it was due to recent rain and the snow melt more than watering.  A few holes on the back were cart path only.  But the course was in great shape already and there was only one other twosome out there...had the course to ourselves.  It's still early enough in the year that it was dead out there.  Weather turned out perfect and the experience was top notch. 

[bobbyclampett!!]

23 hours ago, Dancin said:

I think it is a little early to definitively say that. They might be watering heavier now that it is finally warm enough for the grass to grow. It's also better long term for the course if they let it be a little long and keep it watered for the first couple years to let the grass get solidly established, especially when they are allowing carts on it from the open.

 

Hopefully that is the main reason and not a monetary issue given their challenges in signing up members. It's a lot cheaper to let the grass grow longer. Less water, less chemicals, less maintenance labor, gas etc...

Yeah, good points. Not sure how they will manage not just allowing carts but requiring them. The truth is there probably aren’t that many golfers that prefer firm and fast and tight and all that. Most people think the greener and plusher things are the better. 

[golf4pj]

Played in a tournament at South Suburban yesterday.  I have to say I'm pretty happy with how the course is recovering from the winter kill.  Most of the Colorado courses seem to be well on their way (except for The Meadows - avoid at all costs).  Anyone else finding Colorado courses doing well on recovery or still in bad shape?

[Hardrain]

43 minutes ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Yeah, good points. Not sure how they will manage not just allowing carts but requiring them. The truth is there probably aren’t that many golfers that prefer firm and fast and tight and all that. Most people think the greener and plusher things are the better. 

 

They require carts out there? Would you say it is difficult to walk or unwalkable? Are cart fees part of the membership? I couldn't imagine being required to pay a cart fee every time I play.

[pseudoswede]

2 hours ago, golf4pj said:

Anyone else finding Colorado courses doing well on recovery or still in bad shape?

 

I drove by The Ridge at Castle Pines North last Thursday, and it was looking really nice.

[Dancin]

10 hours ago, Hardrain said:

 

They require carts out there? Would you say it is difficult to walk or unwalkable? Are cart fees part of the membership? I couldn't imagine being required to pay a cart fee every time I play.

It would be a long walk (longer than walking TPC as the transitions are even longer) but they won't allow anyone to walk the course anyway. Also the driving range is too far away for walking between that and the clubhouse/first hole.

[bobbyclampett!!]

12 hours ago, Hardrain said:

 

They require carts out there? Would you say it is difficult to walk or unwalkable? Are cart fees part of the membership? I couldn't imagine being required to pay a cart fee every time I play.

As @Dancin said, you could theoretically walk it, but it wouldn't be pleasant. I haven't asked to be able to walk, I think they might let a member do it, not sure about public. Cart fees are part of membership and, I believe, greens fees. All that said, walking is never going to be a thing out there. I don't think I've ever seen anyone walk. Kind of a deal breaker for me...

[Joelness]

1 hour ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

As @Dancin said, you could theoretically walk it, but it wouldn't be pleasant. I haven't asked to be able to walk, I think they might let a member do it, not sure about public. Cart fees are part of membership and, I believe, greens fees. All that said, walking is never going to be a thing out there. I don't think I've ever seen anyone walk. Kind of a deal breaker for me...

 

Welp, good thing the CGA Amateur is there this year....... Assuming I qualify I'll let you guys know as it will be a thing that weekend!

[ztull]

21 hours ago, ASak10 said:

 

Well, the Norman course was amazing.  I'm with you on liking it more than Fazio.  Course was a little wet, especially on the back 9, but they said it was due to recent rain and the snow melt more than watering.  A few holes on the back were cart path only.  But the course was in great shape already and there was only one other twosome out there...had the course to ourselves.  It's still early enough in the year that it was dead out there.  Weather turned out perfect and the experience was top notch. 

I like Fazio more because the Norman just eats my lunch. Also am ready to acknowledge this is my fault, not the courses 😢  

[Joelness]

I've been doing a somewhat unconventional handicapping of myself and I'm curious to hear some takes. It's controversial and if you don't like it or me for my practice of it then so be it. I'm here to be honest and get honest opinions:

For the last several years (maybe 5) I haven't posted a single round that isn't for money or competition. To be frank, this is because my home course rating from the tips is +3 (CO National & Fox Hill.) The GHIN rules state that I should post every round, but the ones that really matter are in competition anyway. I've been doing this so I don't shoot even while f****** around with friends and need to post a +3 differential. Especially because real tournament golf is much different and more difficult. At the end of the day, if I'm a +3 or +4 I'm not going to play in any net events anyway. At least this way I'm around a +1 or +2 most of the time, which still makes anything net SUCK but at least it sucks less.

 

This year since I'm coming back from a major injury I started posting everything to try and get an accurate measurement of where I am currently and cycle out all the pre-injury rounds that had my cap at a +2.7 (I was playing pretty good last year.)  Six of my oldest eight rounds count and are about to fall off. Ironically, I've started playing some really solid golf (-2 Sunday at CGA Four-ball, -1 in league last week, and -2 at Perry Park Sunday.) I decided since I'm doing that this year that I will post everything for the rest of the year.

 

Questions:

1. Do you consider my old way sandbagging? I think it technically is, though nobody bitches about a + cap sandbagging and IMO the entire system doesn't take into account how much more difficult it is for me to shoot 3 better than my cap than the 20 handicap that played average and whooped my a** in match play when I shot 68.
2. Do you think my handicap will be higher or lower this year with me going back to the "correct" way?
3. What would you do in my shoes?

[Joelness]

6 minutes ago, ztull said:

I like Fazio more because the Norman just eats my lunch. Also am ready to acknowledge this is my fault, not the courses 😢  

 

I have played both but was initially jaded by the Fazio due to the guy hosting me hating it (he was on the forum at the time.) I want to play it again to make sure I'm not biased against it too much. However, my opinion today is that I love the Norman and I think it's a lot better than the Fazio.

[Joelness]

16 minutes ago, Joelness said:

-2 at Perry Park Sunday

 

Side note on Perry Park: they finished and opened the redesign of 18 this weekend. Holy s*** it's 10x better than before.

 

The moved the tees further up, turned the old green complex into fairway with the big shelf, the rock on the left and the front right green-side bunker how being a fairway bunker, and moved the green about 75 yards back and up the hill near where the old chipping green was. They put in a very tricky green complex with two bunkers right. I hit 3i (~250) and had about 170 in from the bottom of the hill. I love the shelf, the rock, and the bunker as it narrows the fairway down and forces a shot over the trees left if you're going to get aggressive. If you lay back you'll have a mid to long iron to a completely blind green.

 

They are turning the old island into a huge putting green and chipping area (maybe with a bar?) but that won't be sodded until early-mid June is my guess. You could clearly see the green staked out and they had begun moving the top layer of USGA sand around.

 

@ztull@Dancin 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Joelness

[Dancin]

50 minutes ago, Joelness said:

 

Welp, good thing the CGA Amateur is there this year....... Assuming I qualify I'll let you guys know as it will be a thing that weekend!

Yikes. Have they ever held the am at a cart ball course before? If so did they shuttle walkers on the long walks? They will definitely need a shuttle to the driving range and back at Raindance. If most people are walking and they don't shuttle that is going to be a very long round.

[Joelness]

4 minutes ago, Dancin said:

Yikes. Have they ever held the am at a cart ball course before? If so did they shuttle walkers on the long walks? They will definitely need a shuttle to the driving range and back at Raindance. If most people are walking and they don't shuttle that is going to be a very long round.

 

Yeah, I'm sure they will have a shuttle to the range. I'm not sure how many hole-to-hole shuttles they will have as I haven't played it so I don't know how many long walks there are between holes. Either way it's all running by volunteers so I don't imagine they will have too many.

[Dancin]

44 minutes ago, Joelness said:

Questions:

1. Do you consider my old way sandbagging? I think it technically is, though nobody bitches about a + cap sandbagging and IMO the entire system doesn't take into account how much more difficult it is for me to shoot 3 better than my cap than the 20 handicap that played average and whooped my a** in match play when I shot 68.
2. Do you think my handicap will be higher or lower this year with me going back to the "correct" way?
3. What would you do in my shoes?

Woah...Good thing this is on the CO board. I could see this turn into a firestorm on one of the larger ones. 🤣

1 - You play enough tournaments and therefore post enough scores that it isn't going to be a huge difference. It's also how most Europeans have always handled posting in that they used to only post tournament scores. I think the organizations have been trying to force that change over there since they joined the handicap systems worldwide, but I would guess most of them still follow the old way. Also you play so many tournaments that you should be mostly immune to what happens to the average golfer who only plays in a couple tournaments a year and is more affected by the pressure and tends to blow up more. OTOH, if your handicap would be lower (well higher on the plus side of the scale), then yes you were sandbagging. Although the level of sandbagging among plus hdcps is infinitesimal to the average mid teens+ handicapper and generally works more towards the vanity side.

2 - Higher (e.g. closer to 0 on the plus side of the scale)

3 - Don't play in net only tournaments

 

[Dancin]

51 minutes ago, Joelness said:

 

Side note on Perry Park: they finished and opened the redesign of 18 this weekend. Holy s*** it's 10x better than before.

 

The moved the tees further up, turned the old green complex into fairway with the big shelf, the rock on the left and the front right green-side bunker how being a fairway bunker, and moved the green about 75 yards back and up the hill near where the old chipping green was. They put in a very tricky green complex with two bunkers right. I hit 3i (~250) and had about 170 in from the bottom of the hill. I love the shelf, the rock, and the bunker as it narrows the fairway down and forces a shot over the trees left if you're going to get aggressive. If you lay back you'll have a mid to long iron to a completely blind green.

 

They are turning the old island into a huge putting green and chipping area (maybe with a bar?) but that won't be sodded until early-mid June is my guess. You could clearly see the green staked out and they had begun moving the top layer of USGA sand around.

 

@ztull@Dancin 

Nice. That was the dumbest hole in CO. Hit over to this island where regardless of where you end up you have a bad angle to the narrow part of a raised green and have to hit over a bunker to reach that. Hope you can hit your irons as high as the pros do and stop it on a dime. Or hit a 90 degree hook off the tee and have a perfect angle to the fat part of the green where you don't have to hit over a bunker.

[Joelness]

34 minutes ago, Dancin said:

Woah...Good thing this is on the CO board. I could see this turn into a firestorm on one of the larger ones. 🤣

1 - You play enough tournaments and therefore post enough scores that it isn't going to be a huge difference. It's also how most Europeans have always handled posting in that they used to only post tournament scores. I think the organizations have been trying to force that change over there since they joined the handicap systems worldwide, but I would guess most of them still follow the old way. Also you play so many tournaments that you should be mostly immune to what happens to the average golfer who only plays in a couple tournaments a year and is more affected by the pressure and tends to blow up more. OTOH, if your handicap would be lower (well higher on the plus side of the scale), then yes you were sandbagging. Although the level of sandbagging among plus hdcps is infinitesimal to the average mid teens+ handicapper and generally works more towards the vanity side.

2 - Higher (e.g. closer to 0 on the plus side of the scale)

3 - Don't play in net only tournaments

 

 

 Maybe I should post it on a big board. I don't really care about any of the other ones, just you guys here as you are the ones I will meet and actually play golf with.

 

I'm somewhat shocked you think my cap will be higher posting the fun rounds also. Should we put a bet on it? My low last year was +2.8 and I was a +2.7 when I broke myself. 

 

I love your #3. However, it would mean never playing any Fox Events outside of the Club Championship. I'm still a little bitter that our couples club championship doesn't have a gross winner, but I'm biased as my wife is our ladies club champ lol.

[pseudoswede]

2 hours ago, Joelness said:

Questions:

1. Do you consider my old way sandbagging? I think it technically is, though nobody bitches about a + cap sandbagging and IMO the entire system doesn't take into account how much more difficult it is for me to shoot 3 better than my cap than the 20 handicap that played average and whooped my a** in match play when I shot 68.

 

Do you give appropriate pops when playing cash games? If so, does anyone whine about not getting enough pops? If not, then no worries there. Of course, now that we all know about it, you better believe we're going to demand more pops from you! 🤣

 

I would loooove to see someone that brags about shooting high scores in tournaments (since those rounds used to have a bit more weight in handicap calculations--I guess not anymore?) in order to clean up on money games.

[Dancin]

Unless you are giving yourself putts you might normally miss, fun rounds should be higher scores as you aren't focusing and playing as serious. If you're playing the same tees/courses you generally do, posting all your rounds should result in a higher handicap (closer to 0 since you are on the other side of the scale). Now if you started playing a bunch of easier tee boxes then I could see you getting lower. My Friday night league at Legacy plays the blue tees and I am almost always shooting my handicap or better which is not supposed to happen. The rating/slope system generally does not effectively adjust for single digit and better handicap golfers that move up to shorter tee boxes. The blue tees put me in short iron/wedge distance on most holes and I eat it up.

[ASak10]

2 hours ago, Joelness said:

1. Do you consider my old way sandbagging? I think it technically is, though nobody bitches about a + cap sandbagging and IMO the entire system doesn't take into account how much more difficult it is for me to shoot 3 better than my cap than the 20 handicap that played average and whooped my a** in match play when I shot 68.
2. Do you think my handicap will be higher or lower this year with me going back to the "correct" way?
3. What would you do in my shoes?

 

1. Yeah, I think it would be sandbagging to a certain degree, but I think it was at least consistent in that you didn't post any non-tourney rounds, whether good or bad, and you play a lot of tournaments so it's not like the handicap is based only on a few tourney scores.  However, if I was playing against you regularly and had a money game, I would definitely be a little peeved, since for me at a 9-10 handicap, it would mean I'd be potentially losing out on 2-3 strokes probably based on if you were scratch/+1 as opposed to a +3/+4.  That would be my only gripe.  

2. I think you'll have a lower handicap (meaning better, so closer to +4 than to 0) posting all the scores since casual rounds will probably be easier conditions and lacking the tourney pressure.  

3. No idea. Probably just post them all and deal with the fact that I would be dotted to death in net tourneys.

[ASak10]

2 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

I have played both but was initially jaded by the Fazio due to the guy hosting me hating it (he was on the forum at the time.) I want to play it again to make sure I'm not biased against it too much. However, my opinion today is that I love the Norman and I think it's a lot better than the Fazio.

 

I definitely enjoyed playing Fazio as well and certainly did not dislike it, but I agree that I think Norman is significantly better.  Has more of a mountain course feel than Fazio and I liked the hole lengths more on Norman. I could totally see how someone liked Fazio more, but to me the holes were just less interesting than on the Norman.  

 

Edit to add: I'd love to play them back to back....maybe one day I'll try to make that happen and stay up there a few days to play them on consecutive days.

Edited May 23, 2023 by ASak10

[Joelness]

2 hours ago, pseudoswede said:

 

Do you give appropriate pops when playing cash games? If so, does anyone whine about not getting enough pops? If not, then no worries there. Of course, now that we all know about it, you better believe we're going to demand more pops from you! 🤣

 

I would loooove to see someone that brags about shooting high scores in tournaments (since those rounds used to have a bit more weight in handicap calculations--I guess not anymore?) in order to clean up on money games.

2 hours ago, ASak10 said:

 

1. Yeah, I think it would be sandbagging to a certain degree, but I think it was at least consistent in that you didn't post any non-tourney rounds, whether good or bad, and you play a lot of tournaments so it's not like the handicap is based only on a few tourney scores.  However, if I was playing against you regularly and had a money game, I would definitely be a little peeved, since for me at a 9-10 handicap, it would mean I'd be potentially losing out on 2-3 strokes probably based on if you were scratch/+1 as opposed to a +3/+4.  That would be my only gripe.  

2. I think you'll have a lower handicap (meaning better, so closer to +4 than to 0) posting all the scores since casual rounds will probably be easier conditions and lacking the tourney pressure.  

3. No idea. Probably just post them all and deal with the fact that I would be dotted to death in net tourneys.

1. Lol, the irony here is that both of you would win those net matches against me so often that you'll feel bad enough you'll likely take less than you normally would. In that match I lost shooting 68 I had to give an 10.4 14 pops as a +1.3. You guys also forget tee offset as well. Since I've mentioned the match play events I feel it's pertinent to note that I think my club (net) match play record is a sterling 1-6 over my career. You can see why I would only try and post competitive rounds.

 

3. This is basically the plan right now. It's not super enjoyable feeling like I have to make six birdies every 9 to keep up. However, league events are still fun and if I lose money then so be it. Usually I play well enough to get some money out of the pot, just not usually winning it unless my partner has a great day.

 

2 hours ago, Dancin said:

Unless you are giving yourself putts you might normally miss, fun rounds should be higher scores as you aren't focusing and playing as serious. If you're playing the same tees/courses you generally do, posting all your rounds should result in a higher handicap (closer to 0 since you are on the other side of the scale). Now if you started playing a bunch of easier tee boxes then I could see you getting lower. My Friday night league at Legacy plays the blue tees and I am almost always shooting my handicap or better which is not supposed to happen. The rating/slope system generally does not effectively adjust for single digit and better handicap golfers that move up to shorter tee boxes. The blue tees put me in short iron/wedge distance on most holes and I eat it up.

 

2. I tend to agree with ASak10 on this one that the tournament pressure and conditions is more of a difficulty offset than the loss of focus. Either way, we will find out by the end of the season as it seems like my game is almost back. NOTE here: Fox Hill men's league plays exclusively from the white tees which I'm not a fan of.

I want to also acknowledge everyone stating that it makes a big difference that at least there are still a lot of rounds getting posted. I think that's a fantastic point. If I only played 5 tournament rounds a year or picked and chose which to post that would be much worse. Thankfully I usually have 30-40 posted competitive rounds every year.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Joelness

[Joelness]

8 minutes ago, Joelness said:

NOTE here: Fox Hill men's league plays exclusively from the white tees which I'm not a fan of.

 

It also appears they are now posting our four-ball scores from league, which I think is dumb. It's one thing to post match play scores when putts are given... It's a whole different animal to post four-ball net match play scores. Truth is, it will bring up my handicap more than it will hurt it. Take scenario 1 from every wednesday we play: #1 handicap hole means everyone but me pops. Therefore, my strategy should always be balls out birdie or bust. This is going to lead to more bogies and doubles and an overall worse score on average.

 

Food for thought?

Edited May 23, 2023 by Joelness

[Dancin]

You know you are a 0 and not a +2 Joel. Don't fight it and let the system help you. 😉