The Links Lounge (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION/LIV ***)

[touch]

Participants in red have submitted their Picks 

 

Standings 

283 Pts - TripleLindy

268 Pts - DLeightonReid

265 Pts - DMM

264 Pts - Mitchell

243 Pts - Chisag

220 Pts - Spounder

195 Pts - Touch

189 Pts - Casual Lie

152 Pts - imKirby

138 Pts - NJ Big Fish

109 Pts - Parker

95 Pts - DMan

91 Pts - Hickory (out of contest) 

45 Pts - P3P

28 Pts - NCLancer

14 Pts - BobCat

[touch]

 

 

 

DMM          McIntyre   Lowry           Rory           Rahm          Scheffler       alt-Min Woo

touch         Rahm        Rory              Lowry        H.English    Xander           alt-Spieth

Casual       Rory         Rahm            Fleetwood  Hatton         Fitzpatrick    alt-Hovland 

BobCat      Rory         Fleetwood    Clarke        Harman       Fitzpatrick    alt- Xander

Mitchell    Rahm        Rory              Scottie       Fleetwood   Straka           alt- A. Scott

chisag       Scottie     Rahm             Rory           Xander         Aberg           alt - Morikawa

imk             Rory         Fitzpatrick     Aberg        A.Scott         Hatton          alt - Choi

DLR            Bryson     Scottie          Rory           McIntyre       Rahm            alt - A.Scott

DMan        Rory         Scottie          Bryson       Fleetwood     Aberg           alt- Lowry

Parker       JT             Rory             Koepka      Fleetwood     Hatton          alt- Xander 

 

 

Point Values

50 points if your player is the Champion

40 Points for a 2nd place finish

30 Points for a 3rd place finish

10 Points for a Top 10 finish

5 Points for making the cut

-3 Points for a Missed Cut

 

Standings 

283 Pts - TripleLindy

268 Pts - DLeightonReid

265 Pts - DMM

264 Pts - Mitchell

243 Pts - Chisag

220 Pts - Spounder

195 Pts - Touch

189 Pts - Casual Lie

152 Pts - imKirby

138 Pts - NJ Big Fish

109 Pts - Parker

95 Pts - DMan

91 Pts - Hickory

45 Pts - P3P

28 Pts - NCLancer

14 Pts - BobCat

[touch]

 

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Edited July 14 by touch

[aenemated]

3 hours ago, touch said:

 

.

 

I am totally guilty of "That was totally in the whole way." 😂

[mshills]

3 hours ago, touch said:

 

.

On our NC trip, I could not adjust to the slower greens. I heard this on repeat: “Dude. You’re hitting your lines, now hit the next putt with some conviction!”

 

Followed by: “You try to drip another one in I’m gonna take your putter.”

[Bob Cat]

5 minutes ago, mshills said:

On our NC trip, I could not adjust to the slower greens. I heard this on repeat: “Dude. You’re hitting your lines, now hit the next putt with some conviction!”

 

Followed by: “You try to drip another one in I’m gonna take your putter.”

 

I too have been struggling with speed almost to the point of yips. Almost. Was grinding over a dead-straight 14" putt this weekend when, after it was holed, 2 in our group said "we need to talk".  🤪

[aenemated]

28 minutes ago, mshills said:

On our NC trip, I could not adjust to the slower greens.

 

Man, toughest for me I was back east last year was believing putts actually break.

 

Took me forever to stop over-reading them out west then I go back to NC and miss everything low. 

[touch]

33 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Man, toughest for me I was back east last year was believing putts actually break.

 

Took me forever to stop over-reading them out west then I go back to NC and miss everything low. 

 

59 minutes ago, Bob Cat said:

 

I too have been struggling with speed almost to the point of yips. Almost. Was grinding over a dead-straight 14" putt this weekend when, after it was holed, 2 in our group said "we need to talk".  🤪

 

1 hour ago, mshills said:

On our NC trip, I could not adjust to the slower greens. I heard this on repeat: “Dude. You’re hitting your lines, now hit the next putt with some conviction!”

 

Followed by: “You try to drip another one in I’m gonna take your putter.”

 

 

 

It's all about pace (of course) and it's also about playing different courses all the time. Also you have to have a putter in the bag that you are very comfortable with and have confidence in. I can see you guys that only play one home course struggling when you play different tracks. Because I play 8 or 9 different courses regularly I get to play on different speed greens often and I think by doing this I have grooved a putting game that allows me to be a decent putter on slow, medium, and fast greens. I too believe that when I switched to my current gamer putter (my Odyssey Stroke Lab) back in January of this year my speed control greatly improved. Why? Because I changed to a counter balanced putter. Many believe that if you struggle with distance control on different speed greens that a counter balanced putter will help you be more consistent.

 

Before the round at every course I play I take at least 10 minutes and hit the practice green rolling 5,10,15,25, and 30 foot putts. I make a mental note of how far I take the putter back for each of those distances. This warm up has helped my speed control putting when playing different green speeds.  

 

I say grab a used (counter balanced) putter like I did and give it a try. 

 

I hope something in this post of mine helps my fellow Lounge golfers putt better on different speed greens. 

 

 

Too funny...my putter arrived when there was snow on the ground. 😃

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14 by touch

[touch]

I haven't spent a few hours at the range in many moons so today that's what I am doing. I've got tee times for tomorrow and Wednesday but rather than play three days in a row I'm dedicating my first day off to some beneficial practice. 

80 degrees with lower humidity and a fine 10 mph breeze.

 

 

 

[CasualLie]

14 hours ago, touch said:

 

 

I'm dropping Hovland for Xander too. If it comes down to saving pars with savvy greenside wedge work Mr Schauffele has way more talent in that department compared to Hovi. 

I'm hoping for a strong finish in our final Major. I had a horrible First Major (the Players). 

 

They are both pretty bad this year; below tour average in scrambling %.  It is just not Xander's year.  The injury threw him off a bit too much to settle into the rhythm of winning.  He's talented enough to throw up top 10s in any major at any time.  Hovland?  Just when you think he has no chance, he shows up on page 1 of the leaderboard.  His advantage this week is his long iron game is superb.  But the putting?  You just never know.

 

 

[touch]

14 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

They are both pretty bad this year; below tour average in scrambling %.  It is just not Xander's year.  The injury threw him off a bit too much to settle into the rhythm of winning.  He's talented enough to throw up top 10s in any major at any time.  Hovland?  Just when you think he has no chance, he shows up on page 1 of the leaderboard.  His advantage this week is his long iron game is superb.  But the putting?  You just never know.

 

 

 

Interesting, I don't look at stats when making a pick because we do this with no money wagered so I just wing it with my gut feeling. You would know. So toss a coin between the two you say aye? 

 

 

 

[Petethreeput]

2 hours ago, mshills said:

“You try to drip another one in I’m gonna take your putter.”

Some people don't get it, or at least I don't think so.  Everyone is different, whether it's on tour or at the muni, some people see putts with speed ala Rickie Fowler and others see it dying in the hole like Schauffele who is one of the best lag putters.

 

Rick Shiels had the guy who developed DECADE and they played nine holes and the guy says, "Never up, never in" is the worst piece of advice you can give because a 3 putt from short is the same 3 putt as when you blow it by the hole 6'.  I am a die it in the hole guy and while I only mention the three putts (or worse) I am always shocked when they happen.

 

I think it's all in how the individual see the line. 

[CasualLie]

16 minutes ago, touch said:

 

Interesting, I don't look at stats when making a pick because we do this with no money wagered so I just wing it with my gut feeling. You would know. So toss a coin between the two you say aye? 

 

 

 

 

I don't normally look either, but was curious and quite surprised to see them both down there.  I thought Hovland was much higher since last two years his short game has been stellar.  But his putting is not.

 

I think if you are trying to move up the leaderboard there is only one way to do that - pick names no one else has and get lucky.  The Open is the best chance of that.  There are so many golfers who can win this.  No other major depends on the right "breaks" to get a win.  You need a good tee time draw which you do not know if it is one until you get on the course, and good bounces.

 

Who I do not like is BDC because he's not a great wind player.  That being said, if he got lucky and could play this course with little wind, his length would destroy it.  But if he tries to overpower it on a windy day he's going to get some funky lies.  And he seems to get discombobulated when he faces a lot of "bad luck" bounces/lies which is bound to happen at RP.

 

Scheffler is another one.  It took him all week to "figure out" Renaissance and it still gave him problems.  RP is on an entirely other level of difficulty.  All of his "advantages" he has on U.S. courses are completely negated for the Open, and he tends to shoot himself in the foot when stressed because this year it is not all "coming so easy" like it was the last two years.

 

Rory has to be the favorite, if his tee game is on, lookout.  He must have missed 5 putts by an inch this past Sunday.  His speed control on the links greens is really good.  But for this contest, you only pick Rory if you are already in the top 3 in points...you have to pick Rory.

 

Fleetwood was 2nd last time out at RP.  He's older now, so not as good, and I don't know if "wiser" helps.  In his case, maybe not.  Good top 10 pick though, and probably top 5.  But he desperately needs to fly under the radar (not sure how you do that with British media), not be in the last few groups on Sunday and putt like crazy while everyone else collapses to backdoor a win.

 

Overall I am going in on other bets on Rahm.  He's playing good, he can flight the ball down with the best of them, and hits good wedges.  So it really comes down to putting for him.

 

Someone to watch out for that lots of others are down on.  Morikawa.  Billy Foster will be a great caddie for him and British media is a little kinder to him vs US media.  

 

Others I am ignoring - JJ Spaun, let's see if he calms down for FedEx Cup, but for this major and Ryder Cup...toast.  JT...too wild!  Macintyre...how did he ever win last year, he's terrible with the Driver.  Aberg...if he could just play 72 good holes instead of 68 good ones and 4 horrid ones.  

 

 

 

 

[CasualLie]

16 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Some people don't get it, or at least I don't think so.  Everyone is different, whether it's on tour or at the muni, some people see putts with speed ala Rickie Fowler and others see it dying in the hole like Schauffele who is one of the best lag putters.

 

Rick Shiels had the guy who developed DECADE and they played nine holes and the guy says, "Never up, never in" is the worst piece of advice you can give because a 3 putt from short is the same 3 putt as when you blow it by the hole 6'.  I am a die it in the hole guy and while I only mention the three putts (or worse) I am always shocked when they happen.

 

I think it's all in how the individual see the line. 

 

I am more of a die it in the hole when outside ~ 12 feet simply because the hole is "bigger" if the ball is losing speed at the hole.  You get more lucky edge putts to fall in.  8 - 12 ft depends if it is uphill/downhill, and inside of 8ft I like to be a bit more aggressive to hold the line and not have any funny stuff happen on the way.  As far as "never up, never in", I do think it is a crime to be inside 15ft and leave a birdie putt short.  That doesn't mean blast away, but you have to give it a chance.

 

[mshills]

21 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Some people don't get it, or at least I don't think so.  Everyone is different, whether it's on tour or at the muni, some people see putts with speed ala Rickie Fowler and others see it dying in the hole like Schauffele who is one of the best lag putters.

 

Rick Shiels had the guy who developed DECADE and they played nine holes and the guy says, "Never up, never in" is the worst piece of advice you can give because a 3 putt from short is the same 3 putt as when you blow it by the hole 6'.  I am a die it in the hole guy and while I only mention the three putts (or worse) I am always shocked when they happen.

 

I think it's all in how the individual see the line. 

I am definitely a drip in the cup guy, especially with most of my rounds coming on quick Tillinghast greens.

 

My inability to adjust meant I left everything, meaning all putts, short on this year’s NC trip. The greens at Southern Pines and Tobacco Road….man if they were kept as fast as ours are, they’d be unplayable. 
 

I did lots of dripping into an imaginary cup 3’ short of the hole.

[mshills]

Our invitational was this weekend. I missed it this year, but played yesterday afternoon and the course is in wonderful shape. Recall, we almost lost the course entirely last summer due to the drought and water access dispute. Apparently the event was a great success. It was over subscribed within a few days of registration opening. That is awesome. 
 

Not so awesome: cadre of guys, you know the type, they have everything all figured out….loudly complaining that the greens were “only” 11.8 this weekend. 🙄 Overheard in the locker room yesterday “….dunno about this new super, told him we want fast greens, so give me fast greens, not excuses.” I was in a good mood so I didn’t say anything, but catch me in a bad mood and I’d tell him “when you talk with (super) and tell him that, speak for yourself, do not speak for me.”

[chisag]

2 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

Man, toughest for me I was back east last year was believing putts actually break.

 

Took me forever to stop over-reading them out west then I go back to NC and miss everything low. 

 

 

... I think many don't realize there are no flat spots on any greens. If there were, they would gather water and kill the grass. There are of course level spots where a putt will roll dead straight but they are always ever so slightly uphill or downhill. Like you, coming from the midwest where they get a ton of rain there is more slope so most putts break at least a little and some much more. I rarely played straight in and picked a side still inside the cup. 

... But th desert isn' as concerned about water and although there are still no flat spots there is far less break and then add in Bermuda grain that will move the ball, it also took me forever to learn to play less break. But when there is an obvious break, depending on the grain it will break more than Bent greens or a Tif Eagle Bermuda. So the combo of less break on straightest putts and more break on sloped putts can be challenging. 

[NJBigFish22]

44 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Some people don't get it, or at least I don't think so.  Everyone is different, whether it's on tour or at the muni, some people see putts with speed ala Rickie Fowler and others see it dying in the hole like Schauffele who is one of the best lag putters.

 

Rick Shiels had the guy who developed DECADE and they played nine holes and the guy says, "Never up, never in" is the worst piece of advice you can give because a 3 putt from short is the same 3 putt as when you blow it by the hole 6'.  I am a die it in the hole guy and while I only mention the three putts (or worse) I am always shocked when they happen.

 

I think it's all in how the individual see the line. 

I would also call myself a die it in putter, but recently I find myself giving more pace because I miss a lot low, so I’m obviously not reading the break, so a little more speed has helped.  Now this is a small sample size cause I used Aimpoint before the injury and not sure if it will work when I’m in my final.  I also find I am a better lag putter with a blade versus a mallet.

 

I watched that same video and the point that stuck with me is that if you hit a putt past the hole, watching to see what the break does is basically useless, because your pace is going to be different.  Where I do disagree is that watching that first putt go past can give you information for the comeback putt.

[chisag]

... My FIL was an aggressive Arnie type putter but not very good at it. I am a die in the hole putter and he loved saying "99% of putts that come up short don't go in Sam. You have to roll it past the hole". Playing a scramble with my Ex again him and his youngest son we were tied on 18 when he rolled one from 10 feet about 6 feet past and I couldn't help myself "Ya know Richard, 99% of putts that roll past  the hole don't go in either". 🤪 He missed the comeback. 

... I may have said this before but when I had a putting lesson with Kevin Weeks in his lab at Cog Hill I rolled some putts to get a base line and Kevin explained to me that because of the abnormalities on public greens and especially since I play late in the day, rolling the ball with enough speed to go 18" past the hole would give it the best chance of going in. It will also hold its line on breaking putts. So we tried that for awhile using his SAM Putter Lab and then he said now go back to dying the ball in the hole. 

... He told me I reminded him of Ben Crenshaw and about 20% of the Pro's just have a brain wired to the distance to the hole and attempting to roll past that will short circuit their brain. My stroke path and face angle were very consistent dying the ball but trying to roll it 18" past they both suffered, especially my path because my brain was no longer sure of how hard I needed to hit the putt and that doubt caused me to have inconsistent control over my path. Keep dying the ball in the hole was his advice and as others have said, a ball just catching the edge will drop when rolling 18" past it will not and that will offset the putts I miss because of abnormalities in the green moving my ball off line when rolling just to the hole. 

[rsballer10]

Depends on the length of putt TBH. Die at the hole pace is a disaster for me inside 6', and not very useful inside of 12'. Above 20' my target changes to the hole, where I'm ok leaving 50/50 short/long. 

 

When greens get faster, add more break and play less pace. Uphill/downhill will be more pronounced. Missing low/hot on fast greens a big no no.

[Bob Cat]

I can't keep up with this thread so sometimes I just skim the pics and cartoons. So, for my fellow "skimmers", this one's for you:

 

 

I look forward to watching Miss Davis play in the league.

 

Bonus for Senior Skimmers:

 

 

 

[Petethreeput]

9 minutes ago, chisag said:

20% of the Pro's just have a brain wired to the distance to the hole and attempting to roll past that will short circuit their brain.

This is me.  This year I thought I would try to be more aggressive and it lasted about 2 weeks before a buddy asked what I was doing because my putting was notably worse than it had been.  And I am just wired this way, I try to be aggressive on the shorter putts, but even then when I think I was being aggressive I leave it 6" past.

 

33 minutes ago, mshills said:

“….dunno about this new super, told him we want fast greens, so give me fast greens, not excuses.”

Sounds like he might need to be reminded playability isn't just for him, its for the guests too.  Who wants to watch a guest ping pong a 5 putt because the greens are jacked up?  I can answer that... no one.  Nor does anyone want to be on the business end of a 6 hour round.  I enjoyed your dripping 3' short comment.

[chisag]

... I am kinda halfway between Touch and gut picks or Casual and more educated data based picks. But one thing is clear, I just can't trust Aberg. So I am dropping him and selecting Hovland. Basically between him and Morikawa and my gut tells me Hovland has more expertise in Open conditions. Yea, Moikawa won an Open but has also missed the cut 50% of the time.


Drop Aberg
Add Hovland

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

This is me.  This year I thought I would try to be more aggressive and it lasted about 2 weeks before a buddy asked what I was doing because my putting was notably worse than it had been.  And I am just wired this way, I try to be aggressive on the shorter putts, but even then when I think I was being aggressive I leave it 6" past.

 

 

... One of the great mysteries to me is lagging long putts into a 3 foot circle. As a die putter this is probably the strongest part of my game and I very rarely 3 putt from any distance. My target is the hole and I am trying to make it drip in. from 50 feet. If I miss by two feet I have a 2 footer but if my target is a 3 foot circle and I miss by 2 feet I have a nerve-racking 5 footer to save par. As a pure feel putter I just let my brain take in the line and speed with absolutely zero thought, then stroke the ball. How anyone can step off the distance or take the putter back X distance or hold up some fingers after straddling the line is way beyond mystery to me. When I say Zero Thought, that is exactly what I mean. Just look taking everything in and then putt having no concious idea of the line and speed. Just confidence and trust in my subconscious that has experienced probably millions of putts. 

... As you and others have said, putting is personal and finding what works best for the way your brain is wired, style, stroke, temperament  and most importantly confidence is the key to putting well. But having taught short game lessons to many, many bad putters I think I can safely say when it comes to thoughts when putting Less is More. 

[mshills]

26 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Sounds like he might need to be reminded playability isn't just for him, its for the guests too.  Who wants to watch a guest ping pong a 5 putt because the greens are jacked up?  I can answer that... no one.  Nor does anyone want to be on the business end of a 6 hour round.  I enjoyed your dripping 3' short comment.

The whole greens speed thing is a stupid flex. We’ve had buckets of rain this year. The greens are rolling beautifully and more important, all 18 are consistent speed and condition, as is the practice green. 
 

What annoyed me is the supposition he gets to dictate the greens speed and speak for all the other members. The greens committee chair can sort of do that, but the greens chair was putting out on 18 at the time and I don’t know who it was pontificating in the locker room. 

[Triple Lindy]

Open Championship Picks:

 

Scottie

Rory

Jon

Xander

Shane

 

Alt: Bryson 

 

I haven’t been to the Lounge in a while and haven’t looked at others’ picks, but I suspect Bryson may be the wildcard in determining this year’s Lounge contest winner, just like last year. Except this year, I’m leaving him out, other than as an alternate (gotta confess that I don’t even know how the alternate works). That should create an opening for those who put him in the lineup. I’m betting that long but inaccurate isn’t the game for the links of RP. My guess is that Lowrey may not be included for more than a few participants and he’s a player that loves the crowd energy, which I’m thinking will work in his favor this week, so Shane makes my lineup for the first time this year (I think.) Plus, since I’ve been going with a first name lineup, I wasn’t sure if Tommy was unique enough….

 

Good luck in this last tournament, fellas!

 

[chisag]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

Not so awesome: cadre of guys, you know the type, they have everything all figured out….loudly complaining that the greens were “only” 11.8 this weekend. 🙄 Overheard in the locker room yesterday “….dunno about this new super, told him we want fast greens, so give me fast greens, not excuses.” I was in a good mood so I didn’t say anything, but catch me in a bad mood and I’d tell him “when you talk with (super) and tell him that, speak for yourself, do not speak for me.”

 

 

... Just crazy and selfish. As I have said many times people basically fall into one of two categories, Considerate or Inconsiderate. Having been around this game forever and played with hundreds of strangers of different abilities I think a stimp of 10.5-11.5 is perfect for any tournament. But right around 9-10 is good for the vast majority of weekend players. To expect faster is just selfish. I have played right behind the AGA tournament at Aguila when the greens are running right around 13 and the entire round has to be played defensively. I find nothing more frustrating than having to lag a birdie putt inside 10 feet as rolling a few inches past the hole can catch a slope and travel another 15-20 feet past or in some cases off the green! But playing behind a High School State Championship when they rolled at 11 was ideal for everyone. Still have to be defensive with some pins but you could also get aggressive with others. 

... And a high index, poor putter on anything over 10 is just adding hours to rounds. We share the course with others and while we all have our own favorite green speed, you have to take the circumstance and everyone else into the equation. LP's private club with the best greens in western NC plays at 13-13.5 for their membership championship tournament and that is the big difference between public and private as the members have certainly helped to dictate the speed most want in a big tournament. If it is too fast, and I imagine it is for more than a few, just don't enter. OTOH hand I have played muni's after over seeding running at something like a 6/7 and they are virtually unplayable. 

[touch]

17 minutes ago, Triple Lindy said:

 

 

(gotta confess that I don’t even know how the alternate works).

 

 

 

Should for any reason one of your starting 5 Picks WD on any day of competition during the tourney your Alternate becomes active on your team. The only catch is that your alternate has to be outside of the Top 5 or some number on the leaderboard. @NJBigFish22 will tell us what that exact position number is on the leaderboard that your alternate must be outside of as I have forgotten. 

 

 

 

 

[touch]

50 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I am kinda halfway between Touch and gut picks or Casual and more educated data based picks. But one thing is clear, I just can't trust Aberg. So I am dropping him and selecting Hovland. Basically between him and Morikawa and my gut tells me Hovland has more expertise in Open conditions. Yea, Moikawa won an Open but has also missed the cut 50% of the time.


Drop Aberg
Add Hovland

 

 

Pick change noted and I will adjust. 

[touch]

1 hour ago, Bob Cat said:

I can't keep up with this thread so sometimes I just skim the pics and cartoons. So, for my fellow "skimmers", this one's for you:

 

 

 

I look forward to watching Miss Davis play in the league.

 

Bonus for Senior Skimmers:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you hang around the Lounge Bob Cat even if sometimes you are just skimming for images. As I stated in my first post when I started this thread back in February of 2023,  "let's have images of all kinds in the Lounge." The regular Loungers ever since the beginning have been real good at sharing photos and images both funny and serious and I think that makes this place better and it makes me happy. 

 

Anna is a little cutie. Love her ankle bracelets. I see that she is a Lefty. She rocks the bucket hat well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14 by touch