Rory Quote on Bay Hill set up...

[mosesgolf]

Kitayama.  Count me in as a new fan.   Cool customer all weekend.  He rebounded nicely after a 7 on #9.  180mph ball speeds off of driver.  Man what a game and what a way to close.  Going at that pin on #17 and making par o #18 with that tee shot was pure guts.   I love this year's crop of guys making a big splash.  #nowhiners

[dwboston]

2 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

The only difficult choice anybody had was how aggressive to be on 17. Most aimed for the middle of the green. Kitayama was the only guy to go right of the pin. He should get a lot of credit for that, but the whole field played 16 & 18 the same away. It doesn't really ask you for anything else.  

 

Spieth went right at it on 17.  Got a big, firm bounce over the green into the rough.

[TiScape]

4 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

You're absolutely right that the players will complain about both sides of the coin. You're also right that Kitayama is a deserving winner. I just found the event pretty boring down the stretch.

Oh wow. Just goes to show ya, different strokes for different folks. For me it was like…

[tgws]

maybe rors missed it, but down the stretch everyone birdied the par 4.5 16th

 

scoring is a manipulation of par

 

very exciting finish and the winner deserved it he was the best player that week

[Hankshank]

These new hot shot tournaments shouldn’t be birdie fests but mini majors. Not a big fan of Bay Hill as a TV golf venue I quite enjoyed watching this week.

[iBanesto]

11 hours ago, 2over said:

I saw Rory Mcilroy getting heat for saying Bay Hill was set up for bogeys not birdies that the fans want to see. I'm totally with Rory on this! Bay Hill this weekend was the postcard for "tricked up". When the best players in the world can't make 10-15 footers and are 3-putting from 20 feet, that's not golf. That's ridiculous. If you think tour pros are anything like weekend warriors you're seriously deluded. I've hovered around scratch-3 hdcp and can tell you first hand that even a pro bouncing between Korn Ferry and mini-tours will make scratch ams look like double digit hc duffers. Seriously. And every single one of them will putt the lights out on greens that'd be unplayable for most of us. This particular pro I know, when he was a college player, on an Arnold Palmer signature course in a D-1 intercollegiate tourney shot 63-62 from 7450. I played the course the next day (from 6950) and 3-putted several times from inside 20 feet. So when PGA tour pros can't make putts you know the conditions are truly ridiculous.

 

What I hate about this "I want to see the pros make bogies" attitude is that it trickles down from the 12 hdcp tools who sit on the board of directors to the club pros and supers. A private club in my town that hosts a senior tour event prides itself on greens that roll 12-14 on the stimp, every freakin' day. Playing with a 20 mph wind the other day the greens were totally unplayable. The wind was moving my golf ball on the practice green after it had come to rest! It's no fun to hit 12 greens, strike it well, and struggle to shoot 82 because you are just trying not to 3 putt from 12 feet. Please face reality: the pros are on a different golf planet than even decent ams. They will shoot low 60's, high 50's on a typical country club course set up for the club championship where the champ will shoot +2.

 

Just sayin'. Rory's speaks the truth. Listen to him.

 

Poor Rory McIlory!

 

Can't make some putts...

 

He is ranked 191st in SG putting! So it's pretty standard for him.

 

😅

 

[bcjim]

13 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

Nothing like this. The overseed/rough is only November-March and the green speed is only for the tournament. Its still a tough course, but without all the extra that makes it hard for the pros. The weeks leading up to the tournament would be the hardest it plays for members and guests due to the rough but I think it's fun.

 

 

I like to think my 12 handicap is actually a 5 since I only play here. 😂

Thanks for the insight.  It was an unfortunate finish since it was so close to being a playoff with multiple big names. I think maybe the caution required on the greens was a factor.  Still,  a near epic finish is better than someone winning by 4 and no drama at all.

[bladehunter]

17 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I think both sides of the argument have merit and you can never win. Agronomy is not an exact science and within the span of a tournament you cant have it setup for easy and hard scoring of birdies and bogies. It seems that if its setup for birdies you have very low scores and very few bogies - but if you setup hard "for bogies" (which tbh I dont think the USGA purposely does, some courses are just hard) you have a chance of a few guys birdieing AND bogieing that you dont get the other way around.

 

And lets not revise history - all of these "top players" on the leaderboard that were in the chase stacked at the top made plenty of amateur errors all day by driving it into the rough, flubbing shots out of it, and other management errors - like Rory himself claiming he "didnt know he was in the lead" so he hooked a shot left being aggressive. Okay, Rory. Jordan played well in the morning and lost his putter on the back. Rory opened with bogies on the front and did well until the 14-15th where he fell apart off the greens.

 

Going into the minutiae of scoring well on a "tricked up" course (as a previous poster called it) like BH this past weekend showed that players need to not just know how to work the ball left and right but also how to flight spin. How was KK able to hit greens and have his balls stop even with no green to work with front-to-back while others ran their shots through the back of them each time. It tests all kinds of skills and pros on the PGAT get lazy just like any of us do down the back stretch.

 

It was stated multiple times that the USGA, BH Staff, and PGAT all knew the greens by Saturday were running faster than they did last year which was a doozy. A subtle submissions and "oopsies" but nonetheless they did what they could to slow them down by Saturday by not rolling them and watering them overnight. The tee boxes were moved way up this year as well especially on the Par 3s.

 

Some weeks will be harder than others and we have this talk EVERY year at Bay Hill. "Its so hard" by the pros. This and that. Sometimes you have a Rahm that says "I love the pain, and I'll be back" and then you have the Rory's that will always complain until they win (again).

 

No one really wins, apparently. Except me, since I shot an 85 back in early February and I'm a 12. I should get my Master's invite in the mail shortly.

I wonder.  Do they allow play on bay hill Monday after the event ?   
 

I ask because of the green color.  They looked baked to me. Like you’d need to water them twice a day for a couple weeks to save them.  With no traffic.  Almost like that year they replaced the greens after the memorial and Jack literally killed them knowing they’d be took up on Sunday evening.  

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Rory sounds bitter with his comment. He could have done a lot of things differently that could have changed his outcome. One being his putting. 

[third-times-a-charm]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I wonder.  Do they allow play on bay hill Monday after the event ?   
 

I ask because of the green color.  They looked baked to me. Like you’d need to water them twice a day for a couple weeks to save them.  With no traffic.  Almost like that year they replaced the greens after the memorial and Jack literally killed them knowing they’d be took up on Sunday evening.  

Tuesday (today) is the first day of open play again - so essentially, yes.

 

I dont think the greens are that far 'gone'. They choose filters for TV which make the colors slightly off from what it really looks like. The grounds staff knows what theyre doing as there have been greens issues here before and they know not to lose them again. There was that deluge of rain after the tournament and all day Monday I'm sure they watered the course down.

Edited March 7, 2023 by third-times-a-charm

[bladehunter]

11 hours ago, TiScape said:

Oh wow. Just goes to show ya, different strokes for different folks. For me it was like…

I didn’t  enjoy it either.  I love the course.  I love Mr Palmer.  But if I’m honest , I wanted Spieth to win.  When he couldn’t make a short putt , I then wanted rory to win.  Whne he couldn’t make a putt and finished out of it I wanted Sheffler to win , when he couldn’t make one on 18 I wanted anyone but Kittyoma ( sic) to win .  I don’t really know why.  I think to me , that much horsepower tied at the top , you’d think a stud would end up winning.  Don’t get me wrong the winner earned it.  But it wasn’t entertaining.  It’s was opposite  for me. Anticlimactic to a T.  I’m not a fan of putting contests. It’s my least favorite part of the game.  To me there’s golf. And then there’s putting.  Lol.  

[bladehunter]

6 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Tuesday (today) is the first day of open play again - so essentially, yes.

 

I dont think the greens are that far 'gone'. They choose filters for TV which make the colors slightly off from what it really looks like. The grounds staff knows what theyre doing as there have been greens issues here before and they know not to lose them again. There was that deluge of rain after the tournament and all day Monday I'm sure they watered the course down.

Thanks.  And yes. I’m sure they won’t lose them.  And judging by the conditions on course they absolutely must have a first rate staff. Just wondered what the process was.  

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I didn’t  enjoy it either.  I love the course.  I love Mr Palmer.  But if I’m honest , I wanted Spieth to win.  When he couldn’t make a short putt , I then wanted rory to win.  Whne he couldn’t make a putt and finished out of it I wanted Sheffler to win , when he couldn’t make one on 18 I wanted anyone but Kittyoma ( sic) to win .  I don’t really know why.  I think to me , that much horsepower tied at the top , you’d think a stud would end up winning.  Don’t get me wrong the winner earned it.  But it wasn’t entertaining.  It’s was opposite  for me. Anticlimactic to a T.  I’m not a fan of putting contests. It’s my least favorite part of the game.  To me there’s golf. And then there’s putting.  Lol.  

 

🤣

 

See, now, personal perspective is everything. 
 

I thought it was totally dramatic. KK on the big stage trying to keep himself together and fend off the charge from the big dogs.

 

Then…disaster! Triple at the turn! 
 

But, he kept his head in check and that putt on 18 was dope!

 

Would have love to have watched it with you.

 

I be like, “Jordan, <cough>, choke, Jordan” 🤣🤣

 

Cheers blade ; )

[smashdn]

19 hours ago, 2over said:

I saw Rory Mcilroy getting heat for saying Bay Hill was set up for bogeys not birdies that the fans want to see. I'm totally with Rory on this! Bay Hill this weekend was the postcard for "tricked up". When the best players in the world can't make 10-15 footers and are 3-putting from 20 feet, that's not golf. That's ridiculous. If you think tour pros are anything like weekend warriors you're seriously deluded. I've hovered around scratch-3 hdcp and can tell you first hand that even a pro bouncing between Korn Ferry and mini-tours will make scratch ams look like double digit hc duffers. Seriously. And every single one of them will putt the lights out on greens that'd be unplayable for most of us. This particular pro I know, when he was a college player, on an Arnold Palmer signature course in a D-1 intercollegiate tourney shot 63-62 from 7450. I played the course the next day (from 6950) and 3-putted several times from inside 20 feet. So when PGA tour pros can't make putts you know the conditions are truly ridiculous.

 

What I hate about this "I want to see the pros make bogies" attitude is that it trickles down from the 12 hdcp tools who sit on the board of directors to the club pros and supers. A private club in my town that hosts a senior tour event prides itself on greens that roll 12-14 on the stimp, every freakin' day. Playing with a 20 mph wind the other day the greens were totally unplayable. The wind was moving my golf ball on the practice green after it had come to rest! It's no fun to hit 12 greens, strike it well, and struggle to shoot 82 because you are just trying not to 3 putt from 12 feet. Please face reality: the pros are on a different golf planet than even decent ams. They will shoot low 60's, high 50's on a typical country club course set up for the club championship where the champ will shoot +2.

 

Just sayin'. Rory's speaks the truth. Listen to him.

 

Feelings < Data

 

 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I prefer the condition they had it in over a soft birdie fest but the issue is the course doesn't really seem designed to play in those conditions. Plenty of drama sure but I don't find the golf course interesting at all. 

[Klubster]

I enjoyed seeing a little bit higher scoring than usual.  On tour, there are no longer any par 5 holes.  Virtually all of them are reachable with an iron.  Adding risk/reward to a 350+yard drive is fair.  If you go for a par 5 in two and miss, there should be a consequence.  In general, the top players still placed near the top of the leaderboard.

[woahnelly]

I thought it was entertaining, at one point we had 7 about players with a shot to W on the back 9. 

[Primo1868]

19 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I think both sides of the argument have merit and you can never win. Agronomy is not an exact science and within the span of a tournament you cant have it setup for easy and hard scoring of birdies and bogies. It seems that if its setup for birdies you have very low scores and very few bogies - but if you setup hard "for bogies" (which tbh I dont think the USGA purposely does, some courses are just hard) you have a chance of a few guys birdieing AND bogieing that you dont get the other way around.

 

And lets not revise history - all of these "top players" on the leaderboard that were in the chase stacked at the top made plenty of amateur errors all day by driving it into the rough, flubbing shots out of it, and other management errors - like Rory himself claiming he "didnt know he was in the lead" so he hooked a shot left being aggressive. Okay, Rory. Jordan played well in the morning and lost his putter on the back. Rory opened with bogies on the front and did well until the 14-15th where he fell apart off the greens.

 

Going into the minutiae of scoring well on a "tricked up" course (as a previous poster called it) like BH this past weekend showed that players need to not just know how to work the ball left and right but also how to flight spin. How was KK able to hit greens and have his balls stop even with no green to work with front-to-back while others ran their shots through the back of them each time. It tests all kinds of skills and pros on the PGAT get lazy just like any of us do down the back stretch.

 

It was stated multiple times that the USGA, BH Staff, and PGAT all knew the greens by Saturday were running faster than they did last year which was a doozy. A subtle submissions and "oopsies" but nonetheless they did what they could to slow them down by Saturday by not rolling them and watering them overnight. The tee boxes were moved way up this year as well especially on the Par 3s.

 

Some weeks will be harder than others and we have this talk EVERY year at Bay Hill. "Its so hard" by the pros. This and that. Sometimes you have a Rahm that says "I love the pain, and I'll be back" and then you have the Rory's that will always complain until they win (again).

 

No one really wins, apparently. Except me, since I shot an 85 back in early February and I'm a 12. I should get my Master's invite in the mail shortly.

I shot 78 at BH from the blue tees in 2018. Can i come to the master's too?

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I didn’t  enjoy it either.  I love the course.  I love Mr Palmer.  But if I’m honest , I wanted Spieth to win.  When he couldn’t make a short putt , I then wanted rory to win.  Whne he couldn’t make a putt and finished out of it I wanted Sheffler to win , when he couldn’t make one on 18 I wanted anyone but Kittyoma ( sic) to win .  I don’t really know why.  I think to me , that much horsepower tied at the top , you’d think a stud would end up winning.  Don’t get me wrong the winner earned it.  But it wasn’t entertaining.  It’s was opposite  for me. Anticlimactic to a T.  I’m not a fan of putting contests. It’s my least favorite part of the game.  To me there’s golf. And then there’s putting.  Lol.  

You know what they say. Simple minds, simple pleasures. Your mind is clearly just a lot more complex than mine! 😜

[gvogel]

So they set up the course with firm and fast greens, sort of like what Rory will see at Augusta, and he complains?  What a beautiful player with a bit of a soft head.

[third-times-a-charm]

13 minutes ago, Primo1868 said:

I shot 78 at BH from the blue tees in 2018. Can i come to the master's too?

Rory says yes.

[grm24]

1 hour ago, Klubster said:

Virtually all of them are reachable with an iron.  Adding risk/reward to a 350+yard drive is fair.  If you go for a par 5 in two and miss, there should be a consequence.

Viktor Hovland nods glumly.

[rgk5]

21 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

The end result was a snooze fest. Don't get me wrong, I do think that the tour should toughen up most of the events they play. I think accurate driving should be rewarded and inaccurate tee shots penalized. But putting shouldn't come down to luck. Nobody made anything down the stretch. Kitayama's birdie on 17 was like the only putt made outside of 6-8 ft over the last 3-6 holes. The greens were crap by the end. 

Although he was too far back, Fowler birdied four of his last seven holes.  Ergo, the greens were puttable.

[grm24]

14 minutes ago, rgk5 said:

Although he was too far back, Fowler birdied four of his last seven holes.  Ergo, the greens were puttable.

Cantlay birdied 3 of his last 4 holes. Ryan Fox birdied 2 or his last 3. Just because an announcer says something on tv during the broadcast and a poster repeats it doesn't make it correct.

[Dutch1008]

15 minutes ago, rgk5 said:

Although he was too far back, Fowler birdied four of his last seven holes.  Ergo, the greens were puttable.

And Davis Riley shot a 66. However, when you push the greens to the absolute limit, how they play in the morning can be vastly different then the afternoon. I listened to the NLU recap pod in the gym this morning. They mentioned that there was a 1.5 hour period down the stretch where nobody made a putt longer than 2-3 feet. This wasn't a situation where 30 mph winds started kicking up and wrecking havoc. The greens just got too fast and too choppy. 

 

When a few guys struggle, that's a sign or pressure and/or a tough test. When every player struggles, something is out of whack. But hey, different strokes man. If you enjoyed it, that's fine. I found it a bit boring. 

[Dutch1008]

13 hours ago, tgws said:

maybe rors missed it, but down the stretch everyone birdied the par 4.5 16th

The winner literally 3 jacked for par on 16.  

[Dutch1008]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

Viktor Hovland nods glumly.

There was no risk/reward there. He simply chunked a 9i. 

[3jacker]

20 hours ago, kmbean said:

How does Bay Hill play on a regular basis?  I’ve always wondered about that.

Easier than what we just watched lol!

 

But not easy ever.  Rough is usually penal.  I love the course, old school style parkland layout.  What you see is what you get, but what you see is hard.

From a tee or two up, you still have those greens and surrounds.

[grm24]

42 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

And Davis Riley shot a 66. However, when you push the greens to the absolute limit, how they play in the morning can be vastly different then the afternoon. I listened to the NLU recap pod in the gym this morning. They mentioned that there was a 1.5 hour period down the stretch where nobody made a putt longer than 2-3 feet.

Guess NLU missed the two putts Cantlay made on 15 and 18 that were 15 and 10 feet? Cantlay teed off an hour before the leaders. Didn't Kitayama make a 15 footer on 17? Again just because somebody says/repeats something that doesn't mean it's correct. It's fairly easy to find out how long off putts players made on the PGA Tour website. Perhaps NLU should.

[grm24]

19 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

There was no risk/reward there. He simply chunked a 9i. 

If you say so.