"L-to-L" wrist hinging vs "punisher" drill-style hold-off release: At odds with one another?

[KMeloney]

 

This video was recently posted in a different thread, but recognizing this L-to-L wrist hinging, release, and rehinging action as something I THINK I could use a ton more of in my swing, it got me wondering: Isn't this pattern at complete odds with the hold-off, body rotation-style of release you see advocated for with the "punisher" drill, etc.?

 

To me, there's a ton of speed in this wrist action, and not a ton of speed in the rotational, hold-off release. It makes me wonder why anyone would advocate for the body-style release where the arms appear to just be along for the ride. Granted, I suppose the L-to-L could look like it requires more timing, and I've heard folks say that the body-driven release "stabilizes the club face" so that you just turn through... But, I've just never looked at the latter as useful in the long run.

 

So, do more pros than not employ this L-to-L pattern? Is the body/rotational release pattern more of a "practice feel" that's just best for someone who otherwise stalls the body and throws the hands at the ball? Are these two patterns really at odds with one another, or do most good golf swings employ equal parts of the two, and some folks could use practice with one or the other to counteract (or actively engage) what they're currently doing? Are they the release "extremes," with the most suitable motion/feel for most folks being somewhere within the extremes?

Edited March 8, 2023 by KMeloney

[GungHoGolf]

They are two different release styles, and require different matchups with grip and body rotation. You’ll see examples of both extremes, and some hybrids, in the world’s best players. 

 

Scott Cowx does a great job explaining the finer details of both (using HackMotion wrist data) in these two videos:

 

 

 

Also: note that the “punisher” drill is only done with short half swings, to promote proper rotation and impact conditions. In full swings, even those players with extreme rotation and shaft lean are still releasing the club (more with lead wrist extension vs left forearm supination), and the butt of the club is pointing back at their belly shortly after impact. DJ would get punished big-time by the punisher drill at full speed. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by GungHoGolf

[KMeloney]

Thank you. And thanks for mentioning the grip and match-ups. What grip is best suited to the crossed-over-wrists release that I think I see so many players employ?

[GungHoGolf]

3 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

Thank you. And thanks for mentioning the grip and match-ups. What grip is best suited to the crossed-over-wrists release that I think I see so many players employ?

Cowx discusses it in one of those videos. He recommends it be on the stronger side. 

 

He says the biggest distinction is the rotation of the upper lead arm at setup and through impact. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by GungHoGolf

[Fatshot71]

I have a bad back and can't get the speed I need from body rotation and quick hips.  The wrist is how I get my speed, similar to the posted video. For me though, I get a cupped wrist when I hinge my wrist so I have to remember "knuckles down" at impact.  Seems to work for me. 

[KMeloney]

1 hour ago, Fatshot71 said:

I have a bad back and can't get the speed I need from body rotation and quick hips.  The wrist is how I get my speed, similar to the posted video. For me though, I get a cupped wrist when I hinge my wrist so I have to remember "knuckles down" at impact.  Seems to work for me. 

 

No bad back here, but I somewhere got into the habit of float-loading the club and dragging the club into impact instead of free-wheeling it. Part of my inability to free-wheel and cross the wrists over in the follow through has been from trying to stave off a hook. (In reality, if I swing from the inside and keep turning though the shot, then the ball won't go left -- but it's been a real journey trying to address the actual culprit of my hooks and poor shots.)

[me05501]

The "no release" release feel seems to work best for me. Similar to what Porzak teaches I guess. I feel like I get the club set at the top and then just try to bring all of that structure down and around. Face control is good and I can start the ball online reliably. 

 

The same feel works fine with my driver but it seems like there must be a way to add more speed to it with the longer clubs. I carry a nine iron about 135 but driver only 215ish. I've got a power leak somewhere. 

[Superscroll]

It's a little harder to flip a driver.  

[argee1977]

I see both of those drills as being for different issues in the swing, just now i struggle with hand dragging, the L to L and feet together are my focus to try and get back to reducing my block shot, it's all a balance though, that Punisher drill / no release / hockey stick drill for me is when my rotation isn't right and needing to be balanced up.

 

It's all a balancing act unfortunately, i know at some point i will be overdoing one drill and need to go back to the other for the right feel, just now the blocks are a killer, and the L to L is helping me time the arms up right with the body.