Epoxy options for a casual club builder???

[rebby]

I'm what I'll call a "casual tinkerer" and build clubs for myself and friends. Over the course of a year, I'll do anywhere from 40-100 clubs (including adapters). I make it a habit to replace my epoxy every spring and this has served me well over the years (left over epoxy is generally used for various household projects over the winter anyway). Knock on wood, I've never had a failure. The last few seasons, I've used GolfWorks Tour Set Plus with GolfWorks Glass Shafting Beads. I've always used the bottles of epoxy and eye-balled the 1:1 ratio.

 

It's time to restock so, in light of the typical WRX epoxy discussions, I got to thinking about what I'd go with this time around. My ideal epoxy would meet the following specifications.

 

- Reliability is a MUST, NO failures!

- Gel time of about 30m at 70' F 

- Cure to playing strength in 12-18h at 70' F

- Cures black, clear would be fine too

- Easy to mix in small batches (does this eliminate epoxies that require a dispenser?)

- Doesn't require a ridiculous amount of heat to break down

- Easily sourced a plus (Amazon?)

 

What do you think? What epoxies out there fit my wishlist the best? Other than reliability, nothing on the list is a must. I haven't been unhappy w/the Tour Set Plus but I'm sure that there are better options out there. If your recommendation requires a dispenser, mixing nozzles, etc... please make note of your suggestions for those as well.

 

Thanks!

[Nessism]

Tour Set is the worst epoxy going.  And adding beads weakens the bond.  You have nowhere to go but up from here.

 

BTW, if you want to play fast, make a heating box.  It will cost you next to nothing.

[purplegoat]

3 hours ago, JM1 said:

The Brampton Pro Fix 5&15 is one of my favorites. Sets up fast, holds strong, can be gotten off Amazon at a low price and I’ve never had it fail. I can build a club, load it in my car and buy the time I’m on the range it’s ready to go. 

I've used the 5&15 before too and it's great for the fast cure time, but I would probably only use it on my own clubs.  I've had one too many failures with it to use it on someone else's club repair, much rather use the long cure version (20/20 - 20 min of working time, 20 to cure I think).

[Ger21]

Been using the Bramptons 20/20 for the last few years, and it's pretty good. But I'd wait more than 18 hours to hit. And, it's not black.

Epoxy will last for years. No need to buy new every year. I've used epoxy for close to 10 years, and have never had a failure in 35 years of building clubs.

[CLEVELAND59]

3M DP810.  Switched this past year because I can get it from amazon in 1 day to my door when i need it.  Working time is fairly fast.  about 10 minutes per batch, so small batches are best.  But I've hit clubs after 90 minutes dry time with no issues.

[jomatty]

11 minutes ago, CLEVELAND59 said:

3M DP810.  Switched this past year because I can get it from amazon in 1 day to my door when i need it.  Working time is fairly fast.  about 10 minutes per batch, so small batches are best.  But I've hit clubs after 90 minutes dry time with no issues.

I just looked at that and it seems very pricey @ $45 for 50 ml.  Do you find it to be that much better?

[CLEVELAND59]

5 minutes ago, jomatty said:

I just looked at that and it seems very pricey @ $45 for 50 ml.  Do you find it to be that much better?

I've never had 1 issue with it.  I found out about it when I took a class at Mitchell.  Used in tour vans and if they are comfortable with it, i'm good.

[AzRoger]

20 minutes ago, jomatty said:

I just looked at that and it seems very pricey @ $45 for 50 ml.  Do you find it to be that much better?

You'll also need to buy an applicator but that's a one-time purchase. According to the DP810 data sheet maximum sheer strength is achieved with an 8-24 hour cure time unless you apply heat, 3M also recommends storing the tube in a refrigerator after opening to get maximum shelf life which is listed at 1 year.

[Cwebb]

Never had a problem with this one from Golfworks...

https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-maximum-strength-high-impact-epoxy/p/vb1001/

[rebby]

56 minutes ago, CLEVELAND59 said:

3M DP810.  Switched this past year because I can get it from amazon in 1 day to my door when i need it.  Working time is fairly fast.  about 10 minutes per batch, so small batches are best.  But I've hit clubs after 90 minutes dry time with no issues.

 

I assume that you're referring to this? -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X57YI8/

 

Expensive but not a deal breaker if it's not a one-time sort of use product. What do you use for dispensing? Can the tip simply be capped and used again later? Often times I'll do one or two clubs then nothing else for a week or two and would hate to lose much epoxy to waste, especially at that price.

[bvanlieu]

Given that many clubs you owe it to yourself to invest in a dispenser gun IMHO. I do less clubs/yr and was mixing by weight on a gram scale, and this year upgraded to a gun with  1:2 and 1:50 plungers. Not going back. 

 

I have been using an 3M acrylic that Nessism has mentioned in the past but it has a short working life so is small batch. The Loctite E60HP mentioned in another thread seems like a very nice epoxy too with 60m working life IIRC. May give that a try when my current one expires for more working time. DP810 is great but also expensive relative to $20 offerings for hobbyists that are not going to go through it that quickly. 

 

As mentioned a hot box (or for me, heat gun at a distance to blow warm air on hosel and keep it toasty) gives a better bond and makes playable within an hour or two if needed. 

 

 

[Badknee]

I started using a old heating pad a while back. Lay clubs on one half fold the other half over. Three temp settings and when you're done roll it up and put it in a drawer. 

[Guest RobS]

8 hours ago, rebby said:

 

I assume that you're referring to this? -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X57YI8/

 

Expensive but not a deal breaker if it's not a one-time sort of use product. What do you use for dispensing? Can the tip simply be capped and used again later? Often times I'll do one or two clubs then nothing else for a week or two and would hate to lose much epoxy to waste, especially at that price.

You use a 'gun' for dispensing like the one below. The cartridge has a cap.  Dispense enough adhesive for 1 club (or more), put the cap back on and continue to re-use.  I store it in my basement refrigerator.  It's not cheap but the cost should average out to less than $1 per club so from that perspective, I think it's worth it.  The product has some benefits in addition to an extremely reliable bond.  It's not very sensitive to prep, which is a frequent source of failure for most golf epoxies.  You can also safely handle the club 10 minutes after setting the shaft so you can complete your build with minimal wait.  Within an hour, at room temp, the bond is strong enough to hit (over 2,000psi).  In addition to being widely used on the tour vans, several OEM's are now using it for factory assembly including Ping, Mizuno and Cleveland/Srixon.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by RobS

[CLEVELAND59]

10 hours ago, rebby said:

 

I assume that you're referring to this? -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X57YI8/

 

Expensive but not a deal breaker if it's not a one-time sort of use product. What do you use for dispensing? Can the tip simply be capped and used again later? Often times I'll do one or two clubs then nothing else for a week or two and would hate to lose much epoxy to waste, especially at that price.

Not a 1 time use product.  I did invest in epoxy gun as pictured in another post, and the dispensing nozzles (which are cheap).  Worth every penny.

[Nessism]

I use 3M DP8410NS.  It's similar to 810, but you can typically find it for cheaper.  A couple of issues, though.  It kicks off really fast, so you must keep batches to about 3 clubs worth.  And it requires a 10:1 plunger.  I've got a few spare plungers for 3M guns, if anyone is in need.

[jarediogolf]

5 hours ago, Badknee said:

I started using an old heating pad a while back. Lay clubs on one half fold the other half over. Three temp settings and when you're done roll it up and put it in a drawer. 

That’s what I do. I say honey can you bring me the heating pad? She thinks I have a sore muscle so wife scurries to find it.
 

Then I put it under my golf clubs to cure 😂 

[rebby]

10 hours ago, Nessism said:

I use 3M DP8410NS.  It's similar to 810, but you can typically find it for cheaper.  A couple of issues, though.  It kicks off really fast, so you must keep batches to about 3 clubs worth.  And it requires a 10:1 plunger.  I've got a few spare plungers for 3M guns, if anyone is in need.

 

Where do you typically source the DP8410NS? I had that on my short list but it appears to be more expensive than alternatives (at least at the moment).

[NRJyzr]

48 minutes ago, rebby said:

 

Where do you typically source the DP8410NS? I had that on my short list but it appears to be more expensive than alternatives (at least at the moment).

 

I just picked up some DP8410NS, found a couple sellers on ebay.  Felt it was a reasonable enough price.

 

I'd looked at some other 3M options, like the DP810 mentioned earlier, but the only prices I'd found were on the high side.

 

[rebby]

10 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I just picked up some DP8410NS, found a couple sellers on ebay.  Felt it was a reasonable enough price.

 

I'd looked at some other 3M options, like the DP810 mentioned earlier, but the only prices I'd found were on the high side.

 

Good call. I grabbed some off eBay and found a 10:1 dispenser on Amazon. Now I’m looking around to see what needs to be assembled sometime soon. LOL

[NRJyzr]

35 minutes ago, rebby said:

Good call. I grabbed some off eBay and found a 10:1 dispenser on Amazon. Now I’m looking around to see what needs to be assembled sometime soon. LOL

 

I'm in the same boat, what needs to be built?  LOL

 

side note:  saw a 3M video, where they demonstrated the DP8410NS epoxy.  They actually oiled a surface, didn't clean it, and epoxied it to another surface that was also not cleaned (with success).  It was pretty interesting.

 

[rebby]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I'm in the same boat, what needs to be built?  LOL

 

side note:  saw a 3M video, where they demonstrated the DP8410NS epoxy.  They actually oiled a surface, didn't clean it, and epoxied it to another surface that was also not cleaned (with success).  It was pretty interesting.

 

 

I remember reading that about the DP8410NS. That sounds INCREDIBLE! I'm anal about prep but it's nice to know that the epoxy is up to the job in less than ideal conditions.

[Nessism]

No doubt, 3M makes great stuff.  Regardless of their promotion material, though, I believe that proper prep is the path to happiness.

 

Clean any old epoxy while it's hot after removing the head.  Then use a NEW piece of sandpaper, or a new sandpaper roll on a mandrel w/drill motor, and clean the bonding surfaces down to CLEAN and fresh metal.  Then, wipe with MEK or  Acetone.  Allow to dry.  Only then, do the bonding.  

[NRJyzr]

52 minutes ago, Nessism said:

No doubt, 3M makes great stuff.  Regardless of their promotion material, though, I believe that proper prep is the path to happiness.

 

Clean any old epoxy while it's hot after removing the head.  Then use a NEW piece of sandpaper, or a new sandpaper roll on a mandrel w/drill motor, and clean the bonding surfaces down to CLEAN and fresh metal.  Then, wipe with MEK or  Acetone.  Allow to dry.  Only then, do the bonding.  

 

FWIW, I took their video as a bit of hyperbole.  "See how cool our stuff is?" kind of thing.  😉

 

[DYOS4]

Another vote for Brampton 5/15 or the max strength 20/20. Golfworks 24 hour is good. 

[J_Tizzle]

Only time I've had any issues with the Golfworks epoxy (tour set or any other) is when I do something in the fall/winter/spring and leave it in the garage to cure vs bringing it inside.  Letting it cure in warmer temps is a must.  I learned this the hard way after I had to take the walk of shame on the driving range about 80 yards into the middle of nothing to find my 4i head...

[homergolf]

Agree that the Golfworks 24 hr is good.  This might rankle a few tinkerers, but not sure you really have to overthink your epoxy choice. My first experience with assembling a club was probably 30+ years ago. I asked my father what would work and he gave me a “two ton”  epoxy.  Worked great.  I think the epoxy choice should be the old fashioned longer cure time, at least 24 hrs, style is the best choice. 

[J_Tizzle]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:14 PM, Nessism said:

Tour Set is the worst epoxy going.  And adding beads weakens the bond.  You have nowhere to go but up from here.

 

BTW, if you want to play fast, make a heating box.  It will cost you next to nothing.

 

I'm very interested in this heating box idea, any details.  And the impact of the centering beads.  I've always used those, but maybe I won't now...

[AzRoger]

4 hours ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

I'm very interested in this heating box idea, any details.  And the impact of the centering beads.  I've always used those, but maybe I won't now...

The mobile clubmaker made a video on an experiment he did using the heat box idea, from seeing the video I got the impression that this isn't something that he regularly uses, just did it as a test. He purchased what looked like a soft sided lunch box that came with a heating plate inside that was spec'd to get to 160F although he never did measure the actual temperature during the test. He built two clubs, one with fast and one with slow curing epoxy. His test did show that it sped up the curing time but his conclusion was flawed IMO. He heated the clubs for 1.5 hours and determined just by trying to hand twist the clubhead, and seeing no movement, that the club was ready to use, not very scientific.

If I wanted to experiment with this idea I would probably just start with a cardboard box with a heatpad inside and use a thermometer to check the temperature inside the box.

I didn't see anything on 3M's datasheet on what the maximum curing temperature is but they state that the DP810 cures in 30 mins. at 120F and in 10 mins. at 150F. One thing of note on the 3M datasheet is how much the cured sheer strength reduces as the temperature increases, close to 50% less at 120F, and 85% less at 180F, might be worth noting for those playing in Phoenix during the summer and storing their clubs in the trunk.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by AzRoger

[Nessism]

7 hours ago, AzRoger said:

One thing of note on the 3M datasheet is how much the cured sheer strength reduces as the temperature increases, close to 50% less at 120F, and 85% less at 180F, might be worth noting for those playing in Phoenix during the summer and storing their clubs in the trunk.

 

 

One of the things I like about 3M products, is that they publish datasheets, so we can understand things like this.  Sadly, it seems like they are moving in the direction of providing less information these days.

 

For the newer DP84XX family of adhesives, they don't provide the exact numbers, but there is a table that mentions 8410NS retains 80% at 120F, so an improvement over 810.  

[RCGA]

Had issues with Brampton's 20/20. A few irons in my set that started to twist. Not a total failure, but I could twist the head with my hand. I glued these up over the winter (in the house) so they had been sitting for 3-4 months before I actually used them.