So elusive yet once understood there's no going back to the old ways..

[SwagGolf6112]

 

If you can tell the difference between these two Hogan photos then you'll be on your way to a "square to the arc hip to hip" and better stable face with less roc through impact.

 

And yes Hogan is smashing the living daylight outta the ball with his right hand. More so in the later photo since he discovered that his right hand "cannot" overpower his left. And no, not by bowing his left wrist..

 

Cheers!

[fore_life]

Left upper arm staying internal a little longer?

[David C]

The main difference is in the left hand photo he is not even hitting a ball and he isn’t swinging fast, so the effects of the ball collision and even the anticipated ball collision, are totally absent.  The dynamics of the one on the right are totally absent. Impossible to make a meaningful comparison on this particular element.
 

And then ROC of what? ROC of the clubhead and the clubface as a by-product? Both swings, all his swings, ever, have the clubhead rotating and the face closing from open to the arc within that. Do you mean purely ROC of the clubface in an ‘about the shaft twist’?

[rcullen]

Looks as if he has adopted his stance like he illustrated in 5 Lessons.

Left picture he is swing "out" and right picture he is swing square to his hips.

 

Arms look a little more connected and tighter to the trunk.

More rotational swing.

Edited June 21, 2023 by rcullen

[rcullen]

On 5/7/2023 at 3:19 AM, David C said:

The main difference is in the left hand photo he is not even hitting a ball and he isn’t swinging fast, so the effects of the ball collision and even the anticipated ball collision, are totally absent.  The dynamics of the one on the right are totally absent. Impossible to make a meaningful comparison on this particular element.
 

And then ROC of what? ROC of the clubhead and the clubface as a by-product? Both swings, all his swings, ever, have the clubhead rotating and the face closing from open to the arc within that. Do you mean purely ROC of the clubface in an ‘about the shaft twist’?

It is my belief, however wrong it may be, that he "discovered" the principle of the D plane 50 years before it was put on paper.

How else do you hit a fade from in to out to in other than hitting before the club face closes to swing/target/arc line.  That was the essence of his set up.  The photograph of the stance in 5 Lessons demonstrates that he was changing the low spot of his swing for different clubs, thereby striking the ball before the low spot for Irons. Not too sure about the driver.

If there really was A secret, I think this may be it.  He could make one swing, change stance and achieve his desired results without changing anything else.  One swing is easier to master than many.

Edited June 21, 2023 by rcullen

[virtuoso]

One important difference is that the camera is in a different spot.

[rcullen]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

One important difference is that the camera is in a different spot.

still looks like his right elbow is tucked closer to the right hip.

[Nickc]

They are taken at slightly different positions in the swing ..e.g.look at the feet. The right picture later in swing than the left.

[rcullen]

11 hours ago, Nickc said:

They are taken at slightly different positions in the swing ..e.g.look at the feet. The right picture later in swing than the left.

look at the hands.

this is a difference of years in time all while working on swing.

the hands hold the club. the club head is just inside the lead foot on both pictures.  maybe a half a frame, but both are pretty well impact.

his right hip has just rotated a hair more, all in keeping the hands/club square to the arc.

Edited June 25, 2023 by rcullen

[David C]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:57 PM, rcullen said:

It is my belief, however wrong it may be, that he "discovered" the principle of the D plane 50 years before it was put on paper.

How else do you hit a fade from in to out to in other than hitting before the club face closes to swing/target/arc line.  That was the essence of his set up.  The photograph of the stance in 5 Lessons demonstrates that he was changing the low spot of his swing for different clubs, thereby striking the ball before the low spot for Irons. Not too sure about the driver.

If there really was A secret, I think this may be it.  He could make one swing, change stance and achieve his desired results without changing anything else.  One swing is easier to master than many.

He didn’t figure out d plane and he didn’t push fade it as a stock shot in my opinion. He pull faded or was at best zeroed out. If anything his eye line and flow lines show he aimed right and pulled everything.

 

From his comment that the face was fractionally open we can infer he thought the path determined start line and ‘old ball flight laws’.

 

Other issues are we don’t know what shot he was hitting. Or where he was aiming. Or if he hit it well. He was a shot maker with different finishes, different hand actions through impact.
 

In the final of the 1948 PGA, his best year, he drove out of bounds twice. But you weren’t punished stroke and distance. He wasn’t successful for 6-7 years. You can’t play like that these days.

 

Don’t get me wrong he is an icon of the game and arguably it’s greatest player. But he was so unique in so many ways.
 

There’s photos of him with the handle disappearing way left post impact. There’s photos of the grip cap visible. There’s one at Oakmont where he is in grey and a white cap where he is full-rolling and releasing his right wrist. There’s others where the shadow in his wrist shows him bowing it into impact. 
 

He took the club back and came from a super deep hand position, went forward and CF and then rotated left with extremely connected upper arms. But you look at a rear view of him and his left leg plants and looks solid - he was super flexible. He was a tiny weak but fast man. Short with long arms. So to him what looks very open and taking the club way left post impact felt slung ‘down the line’ and even ‘inside out’. He got hit by a bus!!!

 

He played different heel biased equipment, and manipulated the hell out of it with his hands.

 

Impossible to emulate.