Pro Golf Needs A Shot Clock...

[2over]

Grew up an avid St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan and have just drifted away the last decade. I'll watch the playoffs, but what a slog. I've tuned in this year though and the pitch clock has transformed baseball (and eliminating the shift) and made it a joy to watch again. And I was thinking watching the guys at the masters taking 2 minutes to putt a 4 footer that golf needs a shot clock for tournament rounds. I think it would transform the game in the positive way it's transformed MLB.

 

5 hour rounds for professional players are disgraceful. And it trickles down to country clubs and your local federal course. I hate it. When you get to your ball the first player should have 30 seconds to hit it and the second and third players 15 each. Penalty shot on every violation. Voila! Golf turns into 3 hour (or less!) rounds. I'm acquainted with a couple pros and these guys are and want to be athletes. Let's let them! See it, hit it, react to your target, use your instincts. Be an athlete. 

 

The young pros I've known were lightning fast players in high school and college. They get out on tour and they are forced to slow way down. It's wrecking the game at every level. When ams see the pros grip it and rip it they will do the same and golf will be a sport again, and a much more enjoyable one. Oh, and I'd ban golf carts except for the physically disabled. That would help too.

 

Personally I don't care if they roll the ball back or not. It's all relative. But let's all just miss it quick! My best round have always been when the course wasn't crowded and I fly around with my buddies in under 3 hours. The less you think about it the better you play, for most of us.

Edited April 7, 2023 by 2over

[subrew]

Rule 6-7 and 5.6.  But the PGAT never actually enforces it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by subrew

[golferdude54]

Professional golfers don't have guaranteed money outside of sponsors and such, finishing one stroke inside the top 10 vs. one stroke outside is over $200k of difference nowadays. You'd definitely take your time in such a situation.

[Dave230]

19 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

Professional golfers don't have guaranteed money outside of sponsors and such, finishing one stroke inside the top 10 vs. one stroke outside is over $200k of difference nowadays. You'd definitely take your time in such a situation.

But I think that’s the point is that if there was a shot clock rule, you’d definitely adapt extremely quickly if money was on the line. The thing is a shot clock wouldn’t be like run up and hit it, just don’t take the piss like certain players do.

[Chunkitgood]

Television golf has been formatted to fit the time allotted.

[Hawkeye77]

They need to wear shorts - the Tour Championship should be match play - they should carry their own bags - their putters are too long  . . .

 

Those are the priorities, because . . . they already have a shot clock on the Tour.  LOL, nobody cares how long it takes them - you see a shot, you see another shot, you see another shot, you see some ads - 4 hours, 5 hours - makes no difference.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[wobgon]

3 hours ago, 2over said:

Grew up an avid St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan and have just drifted away the last decade. I'll watch the playoffs, but what a slog. I've tuned in this year though and the pitch clock has transformed baseball (and eliminating the shift) and made it a joy to watch again. And I was thinking watching the guys at the masters taking 2 minutes to putt a 4 footer that golf needs a shot clock for tournament rounds. I think it would transform the game in the positive way it's transformed MLB.

 

5 hour rounds for professional players are disgraceful. And it trickles down to country clubs and your local federal course. I hate it. When you get to your ball the first player should have 30 seconds to hit it and the second and third players 15 each. Penalty shot on every violation. Voila! Golf turns into 3 hour (or less!) rounds. I'm acquainted with a couple pros and these guys are and want to be athletes. Let's let them! See it, hit it, react to your target, use your instincts. Be an athlete. 

 

The young pros I've known were lightning fast players in high school and college. They get out on tour and they are forced to slow way down. It's wrecking the game at every level. When ams see the pros grip it and rip it they will do the same and golf will be a sport again, and a much more enjoyable one. Oh, and I'd ban golf carts except for the physically disabled. That would help too.

 

Personally I don't care if they roll the ball back or not. It's all relative. But let's all just miss it quick! My best round have always been when the course wasn't crowded and I fly around with my buddies in under 3 hours. The less you think about it the better you play, for most of us.

 

3 hours ago, 2over said:

Grew up an avid St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan and have just drifted away the last decade. I'll watch the playoffs, but what a slog. I've tuned in this year though and the pitch clock has transformed baseball (and eliminating the shift) and made it a joy to watch again. And I was thinking watching the guys at the masters taking 2 minutes to putt a 4 footer that golf needs a shot clock for tournament rounds. I think it would transform the game in the positive way it's transformed MLB.

 

5 hour rounds for professional players are disgraceful. And it trickles down to country clubs and your local federal course. I hate it. When you get to your ball the first player should have 30 seconds to hit it and the second and third players 15 each. Penalty shot on every violation. Voila! Golf turns into 3 hour (or less!) rounds. I'm acquainted with a couple pros and these guys are and want to be athletes. Let's let them! See it, hit it, react to your target, use your instincts. Be an athlete. 

 

The young pros I've known were lightning fast players in high school and college. They get out on tour and they are forced to slow way down. It's wrecking the game at every level. When ams see the pros grip it and rip it they will do the same and golf will be a sport again, and a much more enjoyable one. Oh, and I'd ban golf carts except for the physically disabled. That would help too.

 

Personally I don't care if they roll the ball back or not. It's all relative. But let's all just miss it quick! My best round have always been when the course wasn't crowded and I fly around with my buddies in under 3 hours. The less you think about it the better you play, for most of us.

I can agree with some of what you say except i have yet to see these lightning fast players in high school or college....

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, 2over said:

 

The young pros I've known were lightning fast players in high school and college. They get out on tour and they are forced to slow way down. It's wrecking the game at every level. When ams see the pros grip it and rip it they will do the same and golf will be a sport again, and a much more enjoyable one. Oh, and I'd ban golf carts except for the physically disabled. That would help too.

 

 

Baseball is slow and rule changes ridiculous -- quit watching a long time ago.

 

I will say, and not being sarcastic, you really don't know college golf for the last 15 or more years.  It's the slowest golf on the planet in general, that's where high school kids learn bad habits - tour plays faster.

[tiderider]

as much as i'm frustrated by rory's inability to play big, and dj going to liv, they and brooks are probably the fastest golfers out there ... and they comparable to weekend golfers ... get a yardage, choose a shot, pull a club, swing ... 

[Shilgy]

28 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Baseball is slow and rule changes ridiculous -- quit watching a long time ago.

 

I will say, and not being sarcastic, you really don't know college golf for the last 15 or more years.  It's the slowest golf on the planet in general, that's where high school kids learn bad habits - tour plays faster.

Watch a game this year Hawk….I thought I would hate the pitch clock but the pace of the game is awesome.

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, 2over said:

Grew up an avid St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan and have just drifted away the last decade. I'll watch the playoffs, but what a slog. I've tuned in this year though and the pitch clock has transformed baseball (and eliminating the shift) and made it a joy to watch again. And I was thinking watching the guys at the masters taking 2 minutes to putt a 4 footer that golf needs a shot clock for tournament rounds. I think it would transform the game in the positive way it's transformed MLB.

 

5 hour rounds for professional players are disgraceful. And it trickles down to country clubs and your local federal course. I hate it. When you get to your ball the first player should have 30 seconds to hit it and the second and third players 15 each. Penalty shot on every violation. Voila! Golf turns into 3 hour (or less!) rounds. I'm acquainted with a couple pros and these guys are and want to be athletes. Let's let them! See it, hit it, react to your target, use your instincts. Be an athlete. 

 

The young pros I've known were lightning fast players in high school and college. They get out on tour and they are forced to slow way down. It's wrecking the game at every level. When ams see the pros grip it and rip it they will do the same and golf will be a sport again, and a much more enjoyable one. Oh, and I'd ban golf carts except for the physically disabled. That would help too.

 

Personally I don't care if they roll the ball back or not. It's all relative. But let's all just miss it quick! My best round have always been when the course wasn't crowded and I fly around with my buddies in under 3 hours. The less you think about it the better you play, for most of us.

Those under 3 hour fly around games are always not quite by by the rules with gimmes and such.

 

BUT….if you really play better hurrying every shot I suggest next big event you playin you just walk up and wack it without a thought. You’ll be sure to win by at least a dozen shots it sounds like.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Baseball is slow and rule changes ridiculous -- quit watching a long time ago.

 

I will say, and not being sarcastic, you really don't know college golf for the last 15 or more years.  It's the slowest golf on the planet in general, that's where high school kids learn bad habits - tour plays faster.

Yep quit just after the 94 strike.  Impossible to stomach it afterward.  Tried the year my cubs won.  Just can’t.  37 pitchers an inning. Baloney.  

[3whacker]

not a chance...could you imagine the uproar if you penalized Jordan Spieth for being methodical as he can get on the greens....lets not use other technology that is used in other sports , because you cant sit still and watch paint dry

[Hawkeye77]

18 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yep quit just after the 94 strike.  Impossible to stomach it afterward.  Tried the year my cubs won.  Just can’t.  37 pitchers an inning. Baloney.  

Those WS games were the only baseball I’ve watched since Sosa was playing. 

[bcjim]

Slow playing pros are not a problem beyond a few extreme outliers.  

 

Slow playing hacks are a problem. But they're not learning bad habits from pros. They're just ignorant or inconsiderate  or both.

[Chunkitgood]

2 hours ago, bcjim said:

Slow playing pros are not a problem beyond a few extreme outliers.  

 

Slow playing hacks are a problem. But they're not learning bad habits from pros. They're just ignorant or inconsiderate  or both.

I really don’t think this is true.  The holdups I notice are the bottlenecks at par 5’s where “players” are waiting for the “players” ahead of them to clear the green after marking their ball for no good reason, circling the green twice to read the break, going through their “routine,” etc. after scrambling onto the green from the wild attempts they made to reach in 2. 

[iBanesto]

The Shot Clock Masters.

 

 

[DaveMc82]

5 hours ago, bcjim said:

Slow playing pros are not a problem beyond a few extreme outliers.  

 

Slow playing hacks are a problem. But they're not learning bad habits from pros. They're just ignorant or inconsiderate  or both.

I agree and disagree. 
 

Slow playing hacks are a real problem as they impede the progress of better players both by holding up the course and stealing their air! I’ve known plenty a talented player quit playing as they can’t justify 5-6 hour weekend rounds. 

 

Slow playing pros are a real problem as their behavior is used by slow playing hacks as validation for the necessity of their slow play. Their parents were equally at fault for not instilling greater respect and consideration for others during their formative years but that’s a wider societal issue. 
 

The post-Covid decline of golf will come around very quickly and there’ll be some panicking at how to address it. One of the best preemptive measures would be to truly address speed of play at all levels. Set an example at tour level and get commentators talking about how rude and inconsiderate being slow is. 

[elwhippy]

Elite amateurs are just as bad. Our lowest handicap member moves at glacial speeds, holds the entire field up and nobody does a thing. His reply is a teaching Pro said 4.5 hours is a reasonable amount of time to play 18 holes. As for the Pros, it baffles me how they have a caddie and yardages for every part of the course and cannot pull the trigger in less time. 

[FriedEgg]

I would love to see pace of play better enforced from the local muni to the halls of Augusta National

[Dave230]

11 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

They need to wear shorts - the Tour Championship should be match play - they should carry their own bags - their putters are too long  . . .

 

Those are the priorities, because . . . they already have a shot clock on the Tour.  LOL, nobody cares how long it takes them - you see a shot, you see another shot, you see another shot, you see some ads - 4 hours, 5 hours - makes no difference.

Extra hour of your day gone to watch the same thing, if the leaders on the PGA Tour here in Europe on the west coast go out at 9pm and finish at 2am instead of 1am, I notice the difference for sure. But in general, 4 hours watching vs 5 hours watching tends to drag a lot less for me.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Dave230

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Dave230 said:

Extra hour of your day gone to watch the same thing, if the leaders on the PGA Tour here in Europe on the west coast go out at 9pm and finish at 2am instead of 1am, I notice the difference for sure. But in general, 4 hours watching vs 5 hours watching tends to drag a lot less for me.

You can come watch at my house!

 

Hadn't thought about the folks across the pond but . . . events typically wrap up about the same time every week regardless of how long the rounds last, except for those come summer that they think need to be on more in "prime time".  That is a big difference from here - I can play in the morning and/or in the afternoons during the season so by the time any golf rolls around I've either made the choice to miss it or I've recorded it - majors always the exception.

Someday I'm spending an entire golf season in Scotland/England/Ireland --- just hope I can still swing a club!

 

I get up a few hours earlier than usual to watch The Open! I still celebrate when they changed the finish from Saturday to Sunday - that was a real pain in the you know what for us U.S. golf fans to basically see part of one round and that was it ---- it's hands down my favorite golf event after the Masters.  

[MtlJeff]

13 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

They need to wear shorts - the Tour Championship should be match play - they should carry their own bags - their putters are too long  . . .

 

Those are the priorities, because . . . they already have a shot clock on the Tour.  LOL, nobody cares how long it takes them - you see a shot, you see another shot, you see another shot, you see some ads - 4 hours, 5 hours - makes no difference.

 

This is very important---The networks have the time already bought and paid for---They don't care at all about pace of play. If the tournament ended like an hour early would people want Jim Nantz doing stand-up comedy for 60 mins? 

 

As you say, for the viewer it makes little difference, they rarely show a full routine except leaders in the final round.....it's pretty bang - bang before that jumping from one shot to another

 

[golfortennis]

5 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

This is very important---The networks have the time already bought and paid for---They don't care at all about pace of play. If the tournament ended like an hour early would people want Jim Nantz doing stand-up comedy for 60 mins? 

 

As you say, for the viewer it makes little difference, they rarely show a full routine except leaders in the final round.....it's pretty bang - bang before that jumping from one shot to another

 

 

As long as they do finish on time.  But that makes it necessary to send players out earlier and earlier.  Notice how they have reduced the number of players that make the cut?  They give the "can't have hangers on" crap cause we've seen how people eat that up, but it's done to keep the final day from being forced to start too late with the slow play.  They have bought and paid for the time, but they have other programming that almost always generates higher ratings.  They don't want to eat into that.

 

This weekend will be the one exception, but it is the exception.

[2Down]

Which of your complaints isn’t addressed by liv golf.  Maybe the shot clock but with everyone finishing at about the same time you should be happy.  There are a lot of shots to switch amongst at the finish.  
 

[So_Cal]

Today was example 1A of why a shot clock is needed.  Cantlay and Henley were holding up the leaders all day. 

[iBanesto]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/the-masters/masters-2023-golf-patrick-cantlay-roasted-for-slow-play-brooks-koepka-social-media-reaction-video/news-story/02944bf8ce5251947283e4e321509edd

 

Koepka said: “That group in front of us was brutally slow.

 

“Jon went to the bathroom like seven times during the round and we were still waiting.”

 

[Port and Starboard]

A sundial is faster than Cantley.

[Dave230]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:52 PM, Hawkeye77 said:

You can come watch at my house!

 

Hadn't thought about the folks across the pond but . . . events typically wrap up about the same time every week regardless of how long the rounds last, except for those come summer that they think need to be on more in "prime time".  That is a big difference from here - I can play in the morning and/or in the afternoons during the season so by the time any golf rolls around I've either made the choice to miss it or I've recorded it - majors always the exception.

Someday I'm spending an entire golf season in Scotland/England/Ireland --- just hope I can still swing a club!

 

I get up a few hours earlier than usual to watch The Open! I still celebrate when they changed the finish from Saturday to Sunday - that was a real pain in the you know what for us U.S. golf fans to basically see part of one round and that was it ---- it's hands down my favorite golf event after the Masters.  

You want them to be slow for the Open then so you can get an extra hour in bed!

 

4 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Today was example 1A of why a shot clock is needed.  Cantlay and Henley were holding up the leaders all day. 

Part of the problem with golf is that the officials don't officiate because they still go by an idealistic view on the game that people will play with their own integrity. Yet we watch players bend the rules all the time. The likes of Cantlay have to know they're slow, they're pushing the limits of what's acceptable and the rules are just never enforced. Unless it's a 14-year-old Chinese amateur apparently.

 

Cantlay breaking the rules of slow play - no referee intervenes

Koepka's caddie breaking the rules on advice - no referee intervenes

 

Even when they do intervene for blatant cheating like Patrick Reed a few years ago, you have Slugger White saying 'He could not have been more of a gentleman'. Cringe-worthy stuff.

 

Tour golf needs to get more serious in actually enforcing the rules of golf.

[Malvern]

Don't look to the Tours for guidance on how golf should be played. At club level, use the Tours as what you shouldn't be. 

Congrats to Jon Rahm, I 'm no good at watching the stupidity that was in front of him all day. If that college kid and his coach are the future......spare me.