Is golf as simple as rotating/pivoting around your spine/pelvis?

[MofoJones]

My question I am asking you today is simple.
"Is the golf swing as simple as rotating/pivoting around your spine?"
For good athletes - strong and mobile - would thinking about rotating around your pelvis in the backswing and downswing be a helpful swing thought for consistency ?

I have had this thought and feel recently where all I do is coil around my pelvis and uncoil it on the downswing. Zero conscious lower body movement in the backswing, but my hips naturally twist as I get to end range in the backswing. When I watch myself on video I can't help but to see the similarity to Colin Morikawa's backswing in tempo. You see the slowing down of movement in the backswing as you meet the resistance to turning. You muscularly push your body through the resistance for more degrees of rotation all the way to the top. Then you rotate your torso in the opposite manner all of the way to impact. Done. 

I like to think about a triangle being formed at address - the hands together are at the top and center of the triangle. This position feels* fixed - that my hands are fixated by a steel rod connected to the center of my sternum. My arms are holding the same place - relative to my chest - throughout the entire golf swing. 
Having a feel of the hands and the sternum being a unit moving together. The hands only move if the sternum does. 
This has made me feel what rotation truly feels like and getting really good depth. Instead of just faking arm depth by simply moving the lead arm across the chest (bringing the left hand to the right shoulder during the swing). 

It makes me feel like the golf swing is much more simple and athletic than I previously thought it to be. I think many golfers would benefit from this feel. The problem is that many people don't have the physical gifts to get into much of a position off thoracic rotation and shoulder protraction alone - so they start using those arms, wrists and whatever else to create depth or length. If you use the arms actively in the backswing, now they will have to use them in the downswing to impact - which will inevitably lead to inconsistencies ect. 
 

If you try doing this in your back swing, you will feel your muscles like never before. By going to end range you literally feel the "X muscles" that attach at your pelvis stretching. Like I mentioned about Morikawas swing - you get to a point where there is added resistance to keep rotating - but you can fight through it for lots more turn.

Let me know your thoughts, thanks! 








 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Where people go wrong is turning too flat and not getting the club head up. It's a blend of rotation and arm swing/wrist hinge. I went down that path of just rotating through the resistance. It hit it a mile but the hooks made an appearance.  I seriously added a bunch of yardage but had no clue where it was going. That lasted one round. 

[southplains]

I think both of your thoughts and feels are similar to what I am doing these days, after

experimenting with many different techniques and methods to find a swing (returning

following a long layoff).  The ball-striking is solid and consistent, with reasonable distance

and direction.  These seem to be pretty simple ideas resulting in a repeatable, effective swing.  Since I have dabbled with teaching in the past, I am wondering how these ideas would work for beginners with all sorts of body shapes and athletic ability.

 

 

 

 

[aaronjohnston]

On 4/17/2023 at 1:10 PM, MofoJones said:

My question I am asking you today is simple.
"Is the golf swing as simple as rotating/pivoting around your spine?"
For good athletes - strong and mobile - would thinking about rotating around your pelvis in the backswing and downswing be a helpful swing thought for consistency ?

I have had this thought and feel recently where all I do is coil around my pelvis and uncoil it on the downswing. Zero conscious lower body movement in the backswing, but my hips naturally twist as I get to end range in the backswing. When I watch myself on video I can't help but to see the similarity to Colin Morikawa's backswing in tempo. You see the slowing down of movement in the backswing as you meet the resistance to turning. You muscularly push your body through the resistance for more degrees of rotation all the way to the top. Then you rotate your torso in the opposite manner all of the way to impact. Done. 

I like to think about a triangle being formed at address - the hands together are at the top and center of the triangle. This position feels* fixed - that my hands are fixated by a steel rod connected to the center of my sternum. My arms are holding the same place - relative to my chest - throughout the entire golf swing. 
Having a feel of the hands and the sternum being a unit moving together. The hands only move if the sternum does. 
This has made me feel what rotation truly feels like and getting really good depth. Instead of just faking arm depth by simply moving the lead arm across the chest (bringing the left hand to the right shoulder during the swing). 

It makes me feel like the golf swing is much more simple and athletic than I previously thought it to be. I think many golfers would benefit from this feel. The problem is that many people don't have the physical gifts to get into much of a position off thoracic rotation and shoulder protraction alone - so they start using those arms, wrists and whatever else to create depth or length. If you use the arms actively in the backswing, now they will have to use them in the downswing to impact - which will inevitably lead to inconsistencies ect. 
 

If you try doing this in your back swing, you will feel your muscles like never before. By going to end range you literally feel the "X muscles" that attach at your pelvis stretching. Like I mentioned about Morikawas swing - you get to a point where there is added resistance to keep rotating - but you can fight through it for lots more turn.

Let me know your thoughts, thanks! 








 

 

 

Have you got a video of your swing?

I can picture what you are saying. But I would like to see it also.

[MofoJones]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:56 AM, aaronjohnston said:

 

 

Have you got a video of your swing?

I can picture what you are saying. But I would like to see it also.

 

[aaronjohnston]

1 hour ago, MofoJones said:

 

IMG_3218.mov

 

hmmm its not working

[golferdude54]

You're a float loader. The triangle you are talking about as you maintain it in your backswing is really just a slower rate of left wrist radial deviation and right elbow bend. It's actually more efficient than the conventional rates (such as club is 90* to left arm when left arm is parallel to ground in backswing and right elbow is bent 90* at the top) because you get a wider backswing arc that way, which leads to longer and straighter shots. There is also less timing to worry about on partial wedge shots, too.

 

It worked for '96-97 Tiger (who should've kept that width while he changed his plane to 2000-2006 IMO), Nicklaus in his prime, JB Holmes, Cameron Young, note that all of them bombed it off the tee. The only thing I would really work on based on watching your swing is your takeaway is a little outside, watch Tiger DTL in 2006 with his irons as a model to follow with your takeaway. 

 

I wouldn't really follow Morikawa as a tempo model, his backswing is actually a little too slow compared to his downswing with an over 4:1 ratio rather than a 3:1 ratio like Tiger and Hogan and Nicklaus. 

 

[MofoJones]

1 hour ago, golferdude54 said:

You're a float loader. The triangle you are talking about as you maintain it in your backswing is really just a slower rate of left wrist radial deviation and right elbow bend. It's actually more efficient than the conventional rates (such as club is 90* to left arm when left arm is parallel to ground in backswing and right elbow is bent 90* at the top) because you get a wider backswing arc that way, which leads to longer and straighter shots. There is also less timing to worry about on partial wedge shots, too.

 

It worked for '96-97 Tiger (who should've kept that width while he changed his plane to 2000-2006 IMO), Nicklaus in his prime, JB Holmes, Cameron Young, note that all of them bombed it off the tee. The only thing I would really work on based on watching your swing is your takeaway is a little outside, watch Tiger DTL in 2006 with his irons as a model to follow with your takeaway. 

 

I wouldn't really follow Morikawa as a tempo model, his backswing is actually a little too slow compared to his downswing with an over 4:1 ratio rather than a 3:1 ratio like Tiger and Hogan and Nicklaus. 

 

Thank you. It’s funny you say that because I even though I swing it WAY less than parallel - I cruise around 175mph ball speed on the course. Hit it long and straight. 
Can step on it a bit and still feel well within myself around the 178-180 mark. 
 

Partial wedges are also a strength of mine. 
Putting however is the Achilles Heel. 
 

I have never heard the term “float loader” before. 

[MofoJones]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:58 AM, aaronjohnston said:

 

hmmm its not working

It seems to only work with my phone - laptop doesn't show it

[moehogan]

You might want to ask the mods to move this thread to the main instruction forum where you should get many more views and much more feedback. You’re in the Hogan sub-forum and only us Hoganistas usually hang out here.

 

Nice swing!

Edited May 17, 2023 by moehogan

[woodriff]

This is a still shot of a reverse pivot drill that snuck into my swing a year ago. It reminds me a lot of a Hogan turn. In the pic with a check box he’s turning around that stiff right leg.