Using cigar smoke to determine wind direction

[IndyArcher]

21 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

FYI: Cigar foots are biodegradable; they dissolve into the ground.  Before I disregard one, I remove cigar ring and put that in the trash.  Cigarette butts are not biodegradable.

 They sit around for weeks+ BEFORE they biodegrade. Why not just throw them away???? They look HORRIBLE! I don't want to see them littering a course any more than I'd want to see banana peels lying around. My local club has receptacles at every hole but I still see cigar remnants every time I'm out there. 

[Pepperturbo]

14 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

 They sit around for weeks+ BEFORE they biodegrade. Why not just throw them away???? They look HORRIBLE! I don't want to see them littering a course any more than I'd want to see banana peels lying around. My local club has receptacles at every hole but I still see cigar remnants every time I'm out there. 

Cigars can hold a spark for a while, so I won't mash one out and put it in the trash.  I don't leave mine on tees or near greens, but that's me.  Anyway, when left on the ground, it absorbs moisture, extinguishes and begins to dissolve.  Typically, they don't sit around for weeks either, least at the courses I play.  The mower chews them into mulch.  But if your course doesn't mow or sweep paths, oh well. LOL

Edited May 10, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[nsxguy]

On 5/8/2023 at 4:07 PM, stevopagolf said:

Get a new playing partner--wow.  ^^ is a crazy interpretation of the rules.  In the 70's Arnie and others smoked 1 lung dart after another.  Even during majors.  I've seen some crazy discussions on GolfWrx but this ranks up there!  Tell him it's not a wind gauge but a women and bug repellent.....cigars are good at both.

 

Not meant to be a flame thrower and I can't believe how many including me responded!  I'm retired I got nothing else to do at the moment as the course is closed and the landscape work is complete for the day!

 

Why ? His playing partner was right.

 

Have you even read the previous dozen or so posts prior to yours ?

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

FYI: Cigar foots are biodegradable; they dissolve into the ground. 

 So are banana peels but they look disgusting in the terrain for months.

 

Toss them into the trash can, cannot be too difficult.

[ChipStrokes]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

Toss them into the trash can, cannot be too difficult.

 

smokey the bear says only you can prevent golf course trash can fires. 

[Bigarch]

On 5/5/2023 at 3:05 PM, rogolf said:

Rule 4.3a(2)

"Information on Wind and Other Weather Conditions,

Not Allowed:

• Using an artificial object to get other wind-related information (such as using powder, a handkerchief or a ribbon to asses wind direction)."

Wait?  So I can pull grass from the ground (affixed and/or growing) from the ground and toss it into the air, but I can not pull a handkerchief from my pocket and hold it above my head to see which direction the wind is blowing?  Not trying to start an argument... just trying to clarify.

[jholz]

It doesn't seem like this would be a difficult practice to carry over to cigars...

 

https://www.wikihow.com/Field-Strip-a-Cigarette

[Schulzmc]

42 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

Wait?  So I can pull grass from the ground (affixed and/or growing) from the ground and toss it into the air, but I can not pull a handkerchief from my pocket and hold it above my head to see which direction the wind is blowing?  Not trying to start an argument... just trying to clarify.

That is correct. 

[Bigarch]

3 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

That is correct. 

Hmmm.... I was always under the impression that grass had to be clippings and not growing grass.  Learn something new every day.

[Mr. Bean]

15 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

Hmmm.... I was always under the impression that grass had to be clippings and not growing grass.  Learn something new every day.

 

Great! Pays off to visit this forum.

 

But... I wonder why did you think it had to be clippings? After all, grass is only cut during growing season so it would be utterly strange if a player would not be allowed to yank some pieces of grass outside the growing season but would be allowed to pick up grass cuttings (pace of play...), don't you think?

[Bigarch]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Great! Pays off to visit this forum.

 

But... I wonder why did you think it had to be clippings? After all, grass is only cut during growing season so it would be utterly strange if a player would not be allowed to yank some pieces of grass outside the growing season but would be allowed to pick up grass cuttings (pace of play...), don't you think?

Grew up in an era where the definition of Loose Impediment did not include natural objects that were fixed and/or growing. I always interpreted that to be grass that was growing... don't touch it.  If it were loose grass clippings... feel free to pick them up and give them a toss.

[Golferpaul]

But why do you think the loose impediment rule applies?   Is there a rule that says I cannot pull up a weed other than if it helps my position?

[Bigarch]

I'm not certain that it applies.  That's why I asked the question.  I also remember a similar topic coming up before and seeing this response:

[Bigarch]

I actually was more interested in the handkerchief part of the question.  I remember when Judy Rankin was on Feherty's show, she told a story of her caddy at a British Open using his handkerchief to gauge the wind.  I thought that was an excellent idea and have done it ever since.  It was several years ago I adopted that for myself and looked up to see if it was acceptable.  That is when I found the previous WRX forum on the topic.  So I guess I have been breaking the rules for the past several years.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Bigarch

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, Bigarch said:

Grew up in an era where the definition of Loose Impediment did not include natural objects that were fixed and/or growing. I always interpreted that to be grass that was growing... don't touch it.  If it were loose grass clippings... feel free to pick them up and give them a toss.

 

 

Things that are growing are not Loose Impediments but you may cut things provided you are not improving your CATS (Conditions Affecting The Stroke). So your interpretation has been both right and wrong.

 

Afa handkerchief is concerned the Rules may have changed since Judy Rankin's era.

[Bigarch]

It may have.  Not sure.  Looks like in that previous forum, it was still ok as of 2015.  Didn't realize it had changed since then.

[jholz]

If true, I find it utterly hilarious and decidedly ironic that the use of a "handkerchief" has come up in this discussion. When was the last time anyone under the age of 70 possessed one of those? 😁

Edited May 11, 2023 by jholz

[Bigarch]

56 years old and carry one every day... for what it's worth.

[Mr. Bean]

18 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

It may have.  Not sure.  Looks like in that previous forum, it was still ok as of 2015.  

 

I do not have my old Decision Books at hand now but IIRC the Rule has not changed in the past 30 years.

[Mr. Bean]

16 minutes ago, jholz said:

If true, I find it utterly hilarious and decidedly ironic that the use of a "handkerchief" has come up in this discussion. When was the last time anyone under the age of 70 possessed one of those? 😁

 

I have paper handkerchiefs in my bag. Nobody said it has to be made of cloth.

[Bigarch]

So here ya go.  Learn something new every day.  Handkerchief for nose blowing... not wind direction showing 😀

[jholz]

Just now, Mr. Bean said:

 

I have paper handkerchiefs in my bag. Nobody said it has to be made of cloth.

 

Agh, now we've gotten into semantics.

 

A "paper handkerchief" should more properly be referred to as a "disposable nose tissue" or by the colloquialized brand name demarker "Kleenex tissue."

 

Given the nomenclature utilized in the ROG - I'm left to conclude that it would be illegal to affix "disposable nose tissues" onto a golf cart for the purpose of determining wind direction.

 

Old school cloth handkerchiefs are allowed. Throw as many on your cart as you need.

 

Ultimately, I have a hard time believing we legitimately discuss topics like this...but it does make the day go by.

[jholz]

14 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

56 years old and carry one every day... for what it's worth.

 

Nice. I always love anachronism!

[nsxguy]

21 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

So here ya go.  Learn something new every day.  Handkerchief for nose blowing... not wind direction showing 😀

 

Where did you find that ?

 

FWIW, the R&A Rules in 2015 seem to DISallow the handkerchief. I believe the USGA & R&A were in lock step then as well (USGA pages have been removed from their site).

 

14-3. Artificial Devices, Unusual Equipment and Unusual Use of Equipment

The R&A reserves the right, at any time, to change the Rules relating to artificial devices, unusual equipment and the unusual use of equipment, and to make or change the interpretations relating to these Rules.
A player in doubt as to whether use of an item would constitute a breach of Rule 14-3 should consult the R&A.

 

{snip}

 

Except as provided in the Rules, during a stipulated round the player must not
use any artificial device or unusual equipment (see Appendix IV for detailed specifications and interpretations), or use any equipment in an unusual manner:

a. That might assist him in making a stroke or in his play; or
b. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that might affect his play;

Edited May 11, 2023 by nsxguy

[davep043]

22 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

So here ya go.  Learn something new every day.  Handkerchief for nose blowing... not wind direction showing 😀

I don't have my 2019 Complete Guide in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that's an Interpretation from the 2019 Rules.  The 2023 Rules state the same prohibition in Rule 4.3a(2) itself:

Quote

"Not Allowed.

......

Using an artificial object to get other wind-related information (such as using powder, a handkerchief or a ribbon to assess wind direction)"

 

[Bigarch]

12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Where did you find that ?

 

FWIW, the R&A Rules in 2015 seem to DISallow the handkerchief. I believe the USGA & R&A were in lock step then as well (USGA pages have been removed from their site).

 

14-3. Artificial Devices, Unusual Equipment and Unusual Use of Equipment

The R&A reserves the right, at any time, to change the Rules relating to artificial devices, unusual equipment and the unusual use of equipment, and to make or change the interpretations relating to these Rules.
A player in doubt as to whether use of an item would constitute a breach of Rule 14-3 should consult the R&A.

 

{snip}

 

Except as provided in the Rules, during a stipulated round the player must not
use any artificial device or unusual equipment (see Appendix IV for detailed specifications and interpretations), or use any equipment in an unusual manner:

a. That might assist him in making a stroke or in his play; or
b. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that might affect his play;

I just googled it and that came up in the decision book.  I think Dave is correct, it was from 2019 edition.  

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-4-interpretations.html

Edited May 11, 2023 by Bigarch
added URL

[davep043]

25 minutes ago, Bigarch said:

I just googled it and that came up in the decision book.  I think Dave is correct, it was from 2019 edition.  

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-4-interpretations.html

Yeah, google isn't ideal when searching for Rules of Golf, its best to go directly to the USGA or R&A websites or phone apps.  

[Pepperturbo]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:46 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 So are banana peels but they look disgusting in the terrain for months.

 

Toss them into the trash can, cannot be too difficult.

That is a stupid analogy, because of the thin nature of cigar tobacco leafs and thick waxy banana peel.  Like comparing a GT3 to a Nissan Skyline Drifter.  I will leave you with this, your bias distorted your ability to reason.  Have a good one.  Oh, and I said why I won't throw a cigar butt in the trash.

[Mr. Bean]

3 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

That is a stupid analogy, because of the thin nature of cigar tobacco leafs and thick waxy banana peel.  Like comparing a GT3 to a Nissan Skyline Drifter.  I will leave you with this, your bias distorted your ability to reason.  Have a good one.  Oh, and I said why I won't throw a cigar butt in the trash.

 

So... trash that decompose more rapidly one can toss in the environment. That is certainly one way of looking at it. People tend to be masters in finding excuses why they cannot act smart.

 

You know, some smokers around here carry a small plastic cup with a lid and they put the cigarette butts in it. Then they empty it after the round. Very smart, neat and safe. But I am sure you will come up with reasons why you could not do the same.

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

So... trash that decompose more rapidly one can toss in the environment. That is certainly one way of looking at it. People tend to be masters in finding excuses why they cannot act smart.

 

You know, some smokers around here carry a small plastic cup with a lid and they put the cigarette butts in it. Then they empty it after the round. Very smart, neat and safe. But I am sure you will come up with reasons why you could not do the same.

 

 

The world doesn't revolve around your or my wishes.  The people you talk of do that because cigarette butts don't disintegrate.  I as much as said that.  If I smoked cigarettes I wouldn't throw them on the ground either, but I wouldn't throw them in the course trash receptacles either, not even in a cup.  That's how fires start.   

 

By the way, at my last club the BOD's (I was one) told membership NOT to toss cigar or cigarette butts in course trash bins.  Only cigar rings in trash, and hold cigarette butts in a cup till they return to the cart barn, and dispose of them in the special provided container.  Again, early morning mowers make the previous day's cigar butts, what few there were, into compost.  Sorry if that isn't reasonable for you, I am done.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Pepperturbo