A Proposal for Counterbalancing Irons

[CKaneb]

I have played 130g steel iron shafts for a very long time. During my time playing those shafts, I would always be playing them at anywhere from 1" to 2" above standard, resulting in incredibly heavy swing weights in the low E range. Although swing weights this high don't make golf unbearable, I'd far prefer to play my irons and wedges (didn't need to extend my woods + driver so those swing weights are very normal/standard) at more traditional swing weights. So, for the past two years or so, I have tinkered with every possible combination of length and shaft there is with the hope of finding the secret sauce to accomplish the best of both worlds. The best I was able to do was Dynamic Gold 120 X100 Tour Issues at 1.25" above standard, where I was able to get the swing weights to around the D5+ range. However, this setup was only in the bag for 8 months or so as I just recently received a lesson from a coach with several PGA Tour guys in his client book and the changes we're trying to work on no longer make it comfortable to play my irons at this length without my back suffering immensely. As a result of these swing changes I am trying to implement, I have transitioned to Aerotech SteelFiber i95CW X's in both my irons and my irons and wedges and are playing all of those clubs at 2" over standard. While this equipment change has made it dramatically easier to implement the changes I am working on and allow me to implement these changes pain free, I can't help but miss the traditional swing weights my old irons played at.

 

This brings to me my proposal for counterbalancing my new irons. I am very much in the camp of not doing this for clubs that already have 130g shafts in them because that would make the static weight of each club astronomically high. However, my thinking behind why this idea may actually work is because the shafts I am playing are only 95g, so even if I place 25g counterweights in the but (bringing the swing weight down by 5 points), the overall static weight of the club would be very comparable to another set of irons with 130g shafts at standard length. I have never actually taken the time to weigh an uncut 130g shaft (i.e. an X100 or an X7) to see if the uncut or cut weight is 130g, but if the manufacturing process is similar to graphite shafts where the uncut shaft is a little heavier than the stated weight on the shaft so that once cut to final length the actual weight will match the stated weight, I would love to give this theory a shot.

 

I would love as much input as possible on this proposal and hopefully my logic is clear enough that we can get some back and forth going in the replies. I know swing weight is simply a measure of "feel" and a club with a very low static weight can still have a very high swing weight and vise versa, I would have no problem increasing the static weight of my irons if meant getting my preferred swing weight feel for them, especially because the static weight of my shafts are pretty light to begin with.

[taki27]

I would recommend buying 4 Tour lock weights - 12, 16, 20 and 25 and see if any of them help. Try it in one iron first and if it works then keep trying them in other irons.    It will be $35 for those 4 but if you find you like them then you can just complete the set with the weights you like.

[BREWMASTER95060]

5 hours ago, CKaneb said:

However, my thinking behind why this idea may actually work is because the shafts I am playing are only 95g, so even if I place 25g counterweights in the but (bringing the swing weight down by 5 points), the overall static weight of the club would be very comparable to another set of irons with 130g shafts at standard length.

club head is 85 to 90% of club total MOI.

AND/OR
swing weight match:

old club total weight * old club balance point^2                                                  =
new club total weight * new club balance point^2 

AND/OR
butt weight
that's a feel thing.

 

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, CKaneb said:

The best I was able to do was Dynamic Gold 120 X100 Tour Issues at 1.25" above standard, where I was able to get the swing weights to around the D5+ range.

 

I have transitioned to Aerotech SteelFiber i95CW X's in both my irons and my irons and wedges and are playing all of those clubs at 2" over standard. While this equipment change has made it dramatically easier to implement the changes I am working on and allow me to implement these changes pain free, I can't help but miss the traditional swing weights my old irons played at.

 

Have you measured the swing weight of these - you don't give a value.

 

Given the same length and same grip and same head weight,  SF i95's only swing weight ~1-2 sw pts less than DG's.    That means that at 0.75" longer (assuming the same grip),  the swing weight is most likely heavier in the i95 set than in the DG 120 set by 2-3 sw pts.

 

The big question is why would you feel the need to play them 0.75" longer?    A good fit for playing length has nothing to do with shaft selection - IF the shaft weight and swing weight are fit properly.  

 

So that means that if you did get better results testing with the +2" then the same +1.25",  the extra length and higher swing weight might have been helping to compensate for the shaft weight being too light a fit for you.

 

So if swing weight was the only problem, simply reducing the swing weight would be better done by reducing the playing length back to the previous length to end up with the desired swing weight.

 

Now if the real problem is that the shaft weight is too light - then yes it is possible that adding weight to the butt can help fix that static weight problem - but it wont necessarily help with the swing weight.    Adding butt weight does not reduce the MOI or the effort to swing the club - so what the swing weight scale reads after adding butt weight is not really an accurate representation of how the feel will change.

 

BUT if the heavier total weight (heavier shaft weight) was causing problems with the back for the new swing before, I"m not sure why it wouldn't cause the same problems after adding the weight to the butt end of the club.   Well adding counterbalanced weight isn't exactly the same as adding shaft weight so you never know.   But it is something to be cautious of.

 

So there are clearly issues with your logic.  But it can be a very complicated issue so some testing will not hurt.  You never know what you might find works out or not until you give it a try.

 

But if you are going to do some testing, this is how I'd start.

 

Go back (or choke up) to the previous playing length.   At that length experiment with adding butt weight - but not just one big lump amount and dont' use the swing weight scale to determine how much.  Instead work your way up in 5 gm increments to find if there is some sweet spot.     If that doesn't work, you can try it again at the longer playing length.

 

[Mark_Tha_Tinkerer]

I experimented with counterbalancing my irons and hybrids.  I tried switchgripsusa.  The concept is pretty good.  Standard grip = 47 grams.  Midsized grip = 77 grams.  There are 8, 14 and 20 gram weights you can screw into the butt of the grip and you can mix and match between clubs.  You can experiment to your heart's content simply by changing your current grip to a switch grip and playing around with the weights.  

 

For me, it didn't work.  I could not adjust to the counterbalancing at all.  At $11 a grip and $20 for a package of 4 weights, the experiment did not break the bank and I have the satisfaction of at least  trying something new improve my game. By the way, Plans B, C, D and E to improve my scoring also failed miserably.  😞 However, Plan F is currently showing a great deal of promise. 🙂 

 

I've talked to a couple people who swear by counterbalancing their irons.  

 

Good luck.  Hope the experiment is successful for you.  

[ARL67]

My last few builds have been Steelfiber i95cw Regulars and CP2 Wrap Jumbo grips ( 80g ).  I've experimented with Jumbomax UltraLites over several rounds but didn't like those, so I think it is the total weight and/or counterbalanced feel of the heavy CP2 Wrap Jumbos.  I should try some Jumbomax non-UltraLites to see how I fair with their heavy weight.  I put on grips with single sided tape and a compressor so easy to due such experiments.

[Cwebb]

On 6/23/2023 at 5:03 PM, taki27 said:

I would recommend buying 4 Tour lock weights - 12, 16, 20 and 25 and see if any of them help. Try it in one iron first and if it works then keep trying them in other irons.    It will be $35 for those 4 but if you find you like them then you can just complete the set with the weights you like.

 

I second this.  Test an iron or two on the range with these different weights, while monitoring impact pattern on the face and ball flight.  If it improves, then you are on to something and keep testing your other iron/wedges.  If it doesn't, then forget about it.

 

The bottom line is your results, not the number on any scale

[Cwebb]

35 minutes ago, Mark_Tha_Tinkerer said:

I experimented with counterbalancing my irons and hybrids.  I tried switchgripsusa.  The concept is pretty good.  Standard grip = 47 grams.  Midsized grip = 77 grams.  There are 8, 14 and 20 gram weights you can screw into the butt of the grip and you can mix and match between clubs.  You can experiment to your heart's content simply by changing your current grip to a switch grip and playing around with the weights.  

 

For me, it didn't work.  I could not adjust to the counterbalancing at all.  At $11 a grip and $20 for a package of 4 weights, the experiment did not break the bank and I have the satisfaction of at least  trying something new improve my game. By the way, Plans B, C, D and E to improve my scoring also failed miserably.  😞 However, Plan F is currently showing a great deal of promise. 🙂 

 

I've talked to a couple people who swear by counterbalancing their irons.  

 

Good luck.  Hope the experiment is successful for you.  

 

Try it on a driver.  A lot more players find benefit there, than with shorter clubs

[Mark_Tha_Tinkerer]

24 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Try it on a driver.  A lot more players find benefit there, than with shorter clubs

That was Plan B.  Didn't work for me.  

 

Plan C was playing around with counterbalancing putters.  Didn't work for me either.

 

 

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

Hireko sells very affordable drop in weights for steel and graphite shafts.

 

https://www.hirekogolf.com/counterweights-cw.html