Hogan fan here...

[Yacho]

Looking to complete this sentence:

 

I'm a vintage blades fan, and although I have a wide array of sets from different manufacturers across the 70s and 80s, my '88 Redlines are by far my favorites to play, so I owe it to myself to track down and try a set of (year) Hogan ___________'s.

 

Extra credit:

 

... especially if you reshaft them with a set of ____________'s.  Pure bladed bliss.

 

Allright Hoganistas, fill in the blanks!

[Foozle]

3 hours ago, Yacho said:

Looking to complete this sentence:

 

I'm a vintage blades fan, and although I have a wide array of sets from different manufacturers across the 70s and 80s, my '88 Redlines are by far my favorites to play, so I owe it to myself to track down and try a set of (year) Hogan ___________'s.

 

Extra credit:

 

... especially if you reshaft them with a set of ____________'s.  Pure bladed bliss.

 

Allright Hoganistas, fill in the blanks!

1959 Starbursts.

No need to reshaft!

[ezgoer]

Not a Hoganista but a huge fan. Well you’re already pretty set with the Redline’s but….

 I have a set of 76 Apex’s I got out of a thrift store so I’m saying you can’t go wrong with 73-77 Apex. Mine even have the undesirable Legend shaft and still feel fantastic.  They are actually no where near as difficult to hit as you’d think just holding the club in your hands. As playable as any forged iron I really believe.

 

 Not being familiar with 1959 Starbursts I have to say if they play even 1/10 as good as they look you couldn’t go wrong. Not the first to say this but cosmetically that club is now 64 years ahead of its time. Could sell it today as a low handicap option. Apex’s actually look more dated than Sunburst’s. 
 

 Was just thinking the other day if Hogan would have existed continuously and be as much of a player in manufacturing today as they were in the late 80’s even could Mizuno rightfully use the catch line they do? Please nobody take this as a slight on Mizuno. Believe me anything Faldo and young Tiger made famous essentially “walks or floats on water” in these parts so…..

Edited June 29, 2023 by ezgoer

[bcstones]

5 hours ago, Yacho said:

Looking to complete this sentence:

 

I'm a vintage blades fan, and although I have a wide array of sets from different manufacturers across the 70s and 80s, my '88 Redlines are by far my favorites to play, so I owe it to myself to track down and try a set of (year) Hogan ___________'s.

 

Extra credit:

 

... especially if you reshaft them with a set of ____________'s.  Pure bladed bliss.

 

Allright Hoganistas, fill in the blanks!

@Foozle are the '59 Starbursts the same as the 58-59 Sabers?

@ezgoer why are the legend shafts "undesirable"?

now, to answer Yahco...if the Starbursts are the same as the same year Sabers, then I might, after taking a deep breath, say yuppers - that would fill my desire...partially. Really, if cost didn't matter (ie, if I won the Lottery) then it'd have to be the original - 1955 Precisions or I'd really dig in & find a set that was actually made in 1954 (according to Maltby's, there were a very small number of them...

Oh, yeah....and I'd PLAY 'em, not just hang em up to look at 'em....

Edited June 29, 2023 by bcstones

[Yacho]

1 hour ago, ezgoer said:

Not the first to say this but cosmetically that club is now 64 years ahead of its time

 

Yep, the '59s are essentially Mizuno mp20s it seems, 60 years early.

 

Definitely wanna stress playability/ feel/ euphoric pure blade striking experience with this little survey here, not just something pretty to hang on the wall (although that's never a bad thing).  I've got '76 Wilson Staffs, '77 Hagen Ultradyne III's, '80 Ram Tour Grinds, '81 Titleist Tour Models, '83 Mac Muirfields,  '84 TaylorMade TPFs, and '89 Spalding Greg Normans.  The Redlines are just on a different level

[ezgoer]

55 minutes ago, bcstones said:

@Foozle are the '59 Starbursts the same as the 58-59 Sabers?

@ezgoer why are the legend shafts "undesirable"?

now, to answer Yahco...if the Starbursts are the same as the same year Sabers, then I might, after taking a deep breath, say yuppers - that would fill my desire...partially. Really, if cost didn't matter (ie, if I won the Lottery) then it'd have to be the original - 1955 Precisions or I'd really dig in & find a set that was actually made in 1954 (according to Maltby's, there were a very small number of them...

Oh, yeah....and I'd PLAY 'em, not just hang em up to look at 'em....

Only what I’ve read in multiple places. This may not be exactly right but Hogan’s experiment with light weight steel shafts. They have a very large .690 size butt end necessitating thinner grips all this effecting feedback in your hands. Heard them described as deader feeling. Can’t imagine how much better an Apex shaft would feel but sooner or later I’ll stumble on one to compare side by side. Also I believe they achieved the lighter weight bye multiple wall thickness in the shaft so more risk of failure.
 

One of those deals I wish I would have never read poisoning my brain. Biggest difference I feel is a lighter overall club weight you notice if hitting a bunch of different irons or your use to a heavy club. All this being said I really like them as is. I’m always keeping one eye open for a set with Apex shafts I can get for cheap and maybe one day swap but not sure it’s needed. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by ezgoer

[bcstones]

19 minutes ago, ezgoer said:

Only what I’ve read in multiple places. This may not be exactly right but Hogan’s experiment with light weight steel shafts. They have a very large .690 size butt end necessitating thinner grips all this effecting feedback in your hands.

I didn't realize they were steel shafts, haven't played them...any idea who made them for Hogan Golf?

[ezgoer]

No I don’t. This was the AMF or was it Brunswick era of ownership 

Edited June 29, 2023 by ezgoer

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, ezgoer said:

No I don’t. This was the AMF or was it Brunswick era of ownership 

well, lets see...these are the Edge Forged, so circa '88 to '92....nope - just looked at Maltby's...AMF sold Hogan in '85 to Minstar who sold to Cosmo World in '87...The Edge heads were made by Cornel Forge....
glad I found where I'd misplaced my Maltby's (I think some of the ceilings in my home are a wee bit "bluer")...also didn't make any mention who actually made the Legend shafts or the Apex Silver Graphite p

 

oops...that shaft question was mine from another post I made earlier today...sorry

Edited June 30, 2023 by bcstones

[Yacho]

Ok.  Took a flyer on a set of white cameo Apex II's today.  It'll be fun to see how they compare to the Redlines, given that they're up to 9 years older, and to determine whether or not they can replicate the same solid feel that I've learned to connect with the Hogan branding.  FWIW, I have a stray '74 Hogan Director 9i that, despite being possibly in the top-3 ugliest irons that ever carried the Hogan name, plays and feels a lot like my redlines.  It's probably the reason I started this thread...  are all Hogans just better?  Or is there one model that rises above the rest that I need to sink my teeth into...

[bcstones]

32 minutes ago, Yacho said:

Ok.  Took a flyer on a set of white cameo Apex II's today.  It'll be fun to see how they compare to the Redlines, given that they're up to 9 years older, and to determine whether or not they can replicate the same solid feel that I've learned to connect with the Hogan branding.  FWIW, I have a stray '74 Hogan Director 9i that, despite being possibly in the top-3 ugliest irons that ever carried the Hogan name, plays and feels a lot like my redlines.  It's probably the reason I started this thread...  are all Hogans just better?  Or is there one model that rises above the rest that I need to sink my teeth into...

I have heard others here who say they prefer the Apex II (white or black cameo) to the earlier Apex copper/brass cameo...

 

Yeah, I think that most Hogans pre-1993 are excellent...tho, I do have a set of Browning 440s that are fun, so are the Walter Hagen Ultra 66 & a set of Ping Eye2... that said, my first top-of-the-line set was '91 Hogan Magnum Plus'  (only made that one year), bought in '92. I still have them, they are a joy. Oh, and the wedges were the pre-Callaway Hickory Sticks & I still have them also, plus a 60* Callaway Hickory Stick I "picked up" later....
I have heard that to many the '99 Apex's, designed by Jeff Sheets are the best...don't know for myself, outside of my time limit of pre-'93 frame of mind. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by bcstones

[ezgoer]

Don’t forget about the Hogan woods. At first I was mixed at best on the Speedslot Apex woods. Kinda funny looking insert and the Speedslot styling (that you don’t see at address) is kinda unattractive in my opinion. BUT they play fantastic, good as any, and have a nice rich color. I have the persimmons but I’m sure the laminates are just as good. Wasn’t there a Magnum laminate Speedslot or am I imagining that? 

[Foozle]

7 hours ago, bcstones said:

@Foozle are the '59 Starbursts the same as the 58-59 Sabers?

@ezgoer why are the legend shafts "undesirable"?

now, to answer Yahco...if the Starbursts are the same as the same year Sabers, then I might, after taking a deep breath, say yuppers - that would fill my desire...partially. Really, if cost didn't matter (ie, if I won the Lottery) then it'd have to be the original - 1955 Precisions or I'd really dig in & find a set that was actually made in 1954 (according to Maltby's, there were a very small number of them...

Oh, yeah....and I'd PLAY 'em, not just hang em up to look at 'em....

The '59's are known variously as Starburst, Sabre or Personal models (later reproduction named Personsal). In my view this model perfected the perfection of the original genius Precision models. They lost the slightly high toe end of the Precision irons leaving the absolute classic blade that so many manufacturers have copied and emulated to this day. 

Precision's are the grail, but @Yachomentioned playability which I think is also improved by the Starbursts.

From the "modern" Hogan era, I agree the '88 Redlines are supreme; I played them for several seasons until I found a replacement set of 80-82 Tour Grinds. Honourable mentions go to '73-'76 Apex, Apex II (Cameo) and the '84 PC's which aren't the devil's creation many say they are!

 

[bcstones]

9 hours ago, ezgoer said:

Wasn’t there a Magnum laminate Speedslot or am I imagining that? 

yes, there is a guy in Arizona who is selling a Magnum wood set on the 'bay thingy', $40 includes shipping...wonder if there were any Magnum Plus woods (nothing showed up on Google search)

[bcstones]

@Foozle Interesting...as a matter of fact, I picked up recently a set of Hogan PC's from the original owner...at a reasonable price, I think

[Nard_S]

'99 Apex w/ FCM shafts. Not real Hogan era but real Hogan's in design. Great clubs. 

Also I am partial to '92 Fort Worth's, the last set the man himself saw out the door. Slightly different than other designs of past but I really like them.

 

Apex shaft was a bit ahead if it's time, not sure there is a better alternative to them.

[Yacho]

3 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

'99 Apex w/ FCM shafts. Not real Hogan era but real Hogan's in design. Great clubs. 

 

Yep, the '99's are on the radar, for sure.  I'm interested in people's opinions on how they compare directly to the Redlines in terms of gaming them, by anyone who has played them both. A step above, or just maybe equal, but different? And I have zero issue with "not real Hogan era", as my favorite sticks of all time are the '04 Apex FTX's. Spalding-era designed product that carried over for a year after Hogan was sold to Callaway (from what i have read). 1020 steel, not that brittle 1025 crap that Mizuno used. 😄 If they would have run the blade design they used in the 8i - Ew up through to the 3i as an option, this would hands-down be #1 on my blades most-wanted list.

 

And I have a rifle fcm 6.0 flighted shaft in my FTX 3i.  Really nice

[Nard_S]

29 minutes ago, Yacho said:

 

Yep, the '99's are on the radar, for sure.  I'm interested in people's opinions on how they compare directly to the Redlines in terms of gaming them, by anyone who has played them both. A step above, or just maybe equal, but different? And I have zero issue with "not real Hogan era", as my favorite sticks of all time are the '04 Apex FTX's. Spalding-era designed product that carried over for a year after Hogan was sold to Callaway (from what i have read). 1020 steel, not that brittle 1025 crap that Mizuno used. 😄 If they would have run the blade design they used in the 8i - Ew up through to the 3i as an option, this would hands-down be #1 on my blades most-wanted list.

 

And I have a rifle fcm 6.0 flighted shaft in my FTX 3i.  Really nice

I own and have hit a lot of blades, 99 Apex is near top of pile all time. Endo made. Wore out one set, have a pristine as backup and only irons I have done that with. Mine are Apex 4 derived from Brunswick precision stepped shafts.

[Yacho]

23 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I own and have hit a lot of blades, 99 Apex is near top of pile all time. Endo made. Wore out one set, have a pristine as backup and only irons I have done that with. Mine are Apex 4 derived from Brunswick precision stepped shafts.

 

Have you played Redlines?  Compare/contrast? 

 

And as far as shafts...  isn't it Royal/precision or AMF/Brunswick?  Correct me if im wromg.  I'll have to look up the ol' hogan shaft lineage again. I do know that I prefer the apex shafts in my '88 redlines vs the ones in my '04 FTX's by the tiniest margin.  '88s seem just a little more stout, less tip flexy.  Almost like a 1x hard step vs my FTXs

[Nard_S]

1 minute ago, Yacho said:

Have you played Redlines?  Compare/contrast? 

 

And as far as shafts...  isn't it Royal/precision or AMF/Brunswick? 

I bought a, '88 set, but guy lied about shaft and returned them.

 

I have 92 Fort Worth's which have the DG derived Apex, I have '99's w/ Royal/Brunswick derived sticks.  "Precision" is their stepped shaft, had them in RAM FxPro too. 

 

Without question the FCM version of Apex feels softer & smoother than the DG derived version.I prefer the R/B version and I'm huge DG fan. Use S400 now. But with 99 Apex, it's gold. Really depends on how you swing, rhythm wise too. The 99's are some of most intuitive irons I ever played and part of that is the shaft.

 

[ezgoer]

I’ve read enough praise about the Endo forgings that whenever they come available it’s very tempting. Was a set really close to 9 out of 10 condition at 2nd Swing in the spring for $280. Possibly-maybe??-worth that if you just wanted 1 vintage-ish set but I have enough sets that I rotate so I can’t spend that on something I’d probably play 3 times a year. Sure there’s multiple $100 sets buried in the corner of a garage somewhere waiting for a few of us. 

[Yacho]

8 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

... some of most intuitive irons I ever played and part of that is the shaft

 

What a great way to describe playability.  When you can just walk up to the ball and feel how everything is going to connect pure before you even start your backswing.  Akin to when you see the line of a putt almost drawn into the green before you even finish placing your ball back down.  It's just all there for you already without any effort.

 

This is like the opposite of my Mac Muirfields.  For no particular reason I just can't get comfortable with those things.  And I even re-shafted them with Hogan Apex pulls!  I'll still take 'em out 5 times a year though 😄

[Nard_S]

19 minutes ago, ezgoer said:

I’ve read enough praise about the Endo forgings that whenever they come available it’s very tempting. Was a set really close to 9 out of 10 condition at 2nd Swing in the spring for $280. Possibly-maybe??-worth that if you just wanted 1 vintage-ish set but I have enough sets that I rotate so I can’t spend that on something I’d probably play 3 times a year. Sure there’s multiple $100 sets buried in the corner of a garage somewhere waiting for a few of us. 

$280 for mint 99's is a steal if they are not molested & factory built.

[ezgoer]

49 minutes ago, Yacho said:

 

What a great way to describe playability.  When you can just walk up to the ball and feel how everything is going to connect pure before you even start your backswing.  Akin to when you see the line of a putt almost drawn into the green before you even finish placing your ball back down.  It's just all there for you already without any effort.

 

This is like the opposite of my Mac Muirfields.  For no particular reason I just can't get comfortable with those things.  And I even re-shafted them with Hogan Apex pulls!  I'll still take 'em out 5 times a year though 😄

I’ll link this back to 73-77 Apex’s. I’m such big Jack fan Muirfield 20th’s was the second vintage set I picked up. I didn’t realize until I played multiple other sets but just my opinion that they are the‘ ‘biggest boy’ irons I have. Seems to me that club was designed far more for Jack than us. Don’t miss the center and you’ll be fine. What did he need forgiveness for? Now compare my 76 Apex’s side by side and you’d say these are gonna beat me up just as bad yet they don’t. Even the long irons. My buddies always are giving me crap for playing these old clubs but if they ever express any interest this is the set I’ll suggest they play. They just can’t touch my persimmons 

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

Chiming in late, but a couple thoughts…

 

The ‘99s are fantastic. Maybe slightly better feel, slightly less forgiving than the Redlines, but not significantly so.

 

My personal fav. of the Apex line is the ‘92 Ft. Worth. Best look, and I love the turf interaction. Always thought it’d be fun to combo the ‘88s and ‘92s.

 

Least fav. is the ‘93 Channelback. Don’t waste your time, IMHO. 

 

You seem to know your way around some of the other Apex irons. They’re all good (except for the Channelback), and you really can’t go wrong. If you truly want the ‘next level’ it’s gotta be pre 1970. I’m not the most experienced here, but the Personal/Precision irons from the 50’s is where you should go next. Play the clubs that Hogan won with. 

[Yacho]

6 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Personal/Precision irons from the 50’s is where you should go next. Play the clubs that Hogan won with.

 

This is a fair assessment. Makes total sense. I haven't ventured that far into the past with my vintage sets, but maybe '54-'59 is worth a considerable look.  Hopefully I'll get lucky and won't have to sell the farm to get my hands on a set.

 

10 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

My personal fav. of the Apex line is the ‘92 Ft. Worth

 

Interesting to hear about the '92s.  You don't read about a lot of love for the "other redlines"...  in fact, you don't really read about them much at all.  They seem to be the forgotten Hogans, in a way.  Agree about the channelbacks though.  I haven't tried them myself, but don't have much interest in that style of design.  IIRC, some version of the Wilson goosenecks have that channelback style as well. Not my cup of tea.

 

I took the '88 redlines out for an early Sunday morning back 9 today.  They're just...  so...  pure...  2i off the tee for 235yds is just so solid.  I swear there's just a different density of steel hammered into those irons.

 

Excited to see if the Apex II's can match up.

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

2 hours ago, Yacho said:

 

Excited to see if the Apex II's can match up.

Apex II’s are actually a good proxy for the ‘92s. Very similar blade/muscle back shaping. They are a bit of the opposite side of the Apex spectrum from the ‘88s, but they’re still Hogans and feel amazing.

 

I’m gonna predict the big difference is turf interaction. Although they’re hardly wide soled, the ‘88s/‘90s may suit sweeper swings relative to the Cameos/‘92s suiting steeper swings (I really like to trap the ball). 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Poor Mans Ty Webb

[Yacho]

32 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

the ‘88s/‘90s may suit sweeper swings relative to the Cameos/‘92s suiting steeper swings

 

Welp, gonna be impossible to get that out of my head when I finally get to give 'em a swing. 😄

 

I don't rip beaver pelts out of the turf on my approach shots, but I do usually shave a dollar bill's worth of fairway down to the roots after the ball.  I'm half-way in between I'd say, maybe slightly to the sweeper side of things.

 

They're showing up in the mail this week, I'll report my findings.  Now off to put another 18 on my FTX's.

 

 

[Yacho]

The Apex II's showed up at my door last night, and within 12 hours of being in my possession, they were put into play for a Sunday morning earlybird back 9 today.  

 

Yep, they're hogans all right.  Solid forged feel, everything I have grown to expect from Hogan.  I'd put them above most every other vintage blade I own in terms of feel, possibly equal with the 1980 Ram tour grinds, but they don't quite reach the status of the Redlines. I was, however, pleasantly suprised by the location of the sweet spot...  pretty much dead center of the face heel to toe, despite my concerns about the muscleback not extending all the way to the toe along the back like it does in the redlines.  Also pleasantly suprised by how compact they are.  From looking at pictures, I had it in my head that they were going to be larger, billowy type blades along the lines of some Haig Ultras and Wilson fg17s. Not so.  They are tight, compact heads that are noticeably smaller in size than the redlines.  They also have shorter hosels than the 88's by almost 1/4", something I was definitely not expecting, which should help in pushing the horizontal c.o.g. toward the toe even more.

 

Something of note though comparing the 2 models, is that the Apex II's have a slightly higher vertical sweet spot (cog) than the Redlines. This lines up with what @Poor Mans Ty Webb was saying regarding sweeper vs digger swings.  Less noticeable in the long irons, as those are meant to be swept more anyway, but the 7i through E wedge definitely wanted a bit more forward lean to hit it on the button.  That being said, this morning I dimed a 2i for 245yds off the tee on one hole, and pured the 3i from 230 out on a par 5 to drop in nicely on the green for a 2 putt bird.  Pure forged bliss on both those shots.

 

I'll be coming back to them a few more times before the season is over.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Yacho

[RolandofGilead]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:04 AM, Nard_S said:

 

'99 Apex w/ FCM shafts. Not real Hogan era but real Hogan's in design. Great clubs. 

 

The 99s are basically a modern blade IMO. Way ahead of their time. Incredibly soft and buttery due to the Endo forging, pretty compact by today’s standards, and a nice rounded sole for friendly turf interaction. While they are great irons that can still be played competitively today, I don’t really think of them as being a member of the traditional Hogan Apex blade family because they were designed by a new designer (who did a great job!) and don’t have the more unique shapings of other models. Aside from the paint job, they look like a lot of other great non-Hogan blades. I think of them as a great Mizuno-like blade with the Hogan Apex stamp.