Gripes About the Putter Market

[TM135]

People who custom stamp their putters then try to resell for same price as non stamped 

[jonradus]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:24 AM, North Butte said:

I think you are seriously misreading the room.

 

Golfwrx is a fantasyland for people who like to read about and spend money buying golf equipment, period. For 99% of the hard-core Golfwrx posters, improving scores has nothing to do with it. 

 

I'm sure there some poor deluded soul out there among the tens of thousands of people on Golfwrx who hopes his 17th custom, boutique putter is The One which finally gets him under 40 putts per round. But I've never encountered him and I'm on the forum just about every day. Most of the folks here (myself included) are just addicted to golf-club buying. 

My bad. I didn’t realize that almost all of the people who post regularly on golfwrx don’t care about improving their scores at all via new equipment.

[North Butte]

If new clubs produced lower scores, after a decade-and-a-half of club ho'ing I'd have been a plus-handicap already. And I'm not even single digits. 

[jda]

I left this one out there, but I am surprised that nobody mentioned "tour use" stuff that is sold to the general public.  I get that it is just a cash grab, but it still rubs me the wrong way.  I would rather have a putter actually used by a tour pro than one with stamps all over it, although sometimes both can happen.

 

Honest question: do people actually think that a putter with a tour stamp was used on tour?

[butchammon]

Please allow me a brief moment to go "off topic" for an analogy between golf putters/clubs and the electric guitar industry.  Same type of concept, same realization, etc...

 

Eric Clapton Stratocaster: $2100 straight from Fender.  No, not Clapton's exact guitar, but a re-creation of what he plays (or played) live on stage.  Gloss black, maple neck, 22 frets, mid-boost added to the tone control, etc...

 

Fender Player Stratocaster: Same thing, same color, same guitar.  Just turn up the "midrange" control knob on the amp --- voila! Clapton's exact guitar sound - cost $850.

 

<back on topic>

Golf putters could be viewed the same way.... Bryson Dechambeau and Odyssey could go all out and recreate his exactly Odyssey Rossie and try and sell it for double what a normal Rossie would go for, just because his "name" is attached to that design.

 

I honestly feel that players should be able to putt with whatever they can sink the least amount of putts with!  Doesn't matter if it's Odyssey, Scotty, Ping, See More, etc...   A golfer could use an old Ray Cook Blue Goose from decades ago and still sink putts with it, when it really matters!

 

[MattM97]

2 hours ago, jda said:

I left this one out there, but I am surprised that nobody mentioned "tour use" stuff that is sold to the general public.  I get that it is just a cash grab, but it still rubs me the wrong way.  I would rather have a putter actually used by a tour pro than one with stamps all over it, although sometimes both can happen.

 

Honest question: do people actually think that a putter with a tour stamp was used on tour?

 

Some yes can be traced back to certain players that they actually used, have been made for someone but was never used or have been on the putting greens on Monday and Tuesday of certain events. But yeah 98% of them are probably just marked Tour Use to get extra cash.

 

7 minutes ago, butchammon said:

Please allow me a brief moment to go "off topic" for an analogy between golf putters/clubs and the electric guitar industry.  Same type of concept, same realization, etc...

 

Eric Clapton Stratocaster: $2100 straight from Fender.  No, not Clapton's exact guitar, but a re-creation of what he plays (or played) live on stage.  Gloss black, maple neck, 22 frets, mid-boost added to the tone control, etc...

 

Fender Player Stratocaster: Same thing, same color, same guitar.  Just turn up the "midrange" control knob on the amp --- voila! Clapton's exact guitar sound - cost $850.

 

<back on topic>

Golf putters could be viewed the same way.... Bryson Dechambeau and Odyssey could go all out and recreate his exactly Odyssey Rossie and try and sell it for double what a normal Rossie would go for, just because his "name" is attached to that design.

 

I honestly feel that players should be able to putt with whatever they can sink the least amount of putts with!  Doesn't matter if it's Odyssey, Scotty, Ping, See More, etc...   A golfer could use an old Ray Cook Blue Goose from decades ago and still sink putts with it, when it really matters!

 

 

Bryson never worked with Odyssey, you're thinking Rahm and his Rossie was different from the stock option in both alignment and inset which many people wanted mainly the alignment as the Rossie is very busy with lines and Rahm has none on his.

[ApostateDrive]

On 8/5/2023 at 10:42 AM, 5hort5tuff said:

Custom putter  not coming as ordered.

 

This is #1 for me. I was recently reading a thread regarding a very well known custom maker and several people chimed in that the maker was known for taking liberties with customers requests. To the point where the sentiment was that you're going to get something pretty different than ordered, but you should just enjoy it. That's absolute baloney for someone forking over $600-$900+ on a custom putter. 

[jonradus]

39 minutes ago, butchammon said:

Please allow me a brief moment to go "off topic" for an analogy between golf putters/clubs and the electric guitar industry.  Same type of concept, same realization, etc...

 

Eric Clapton Stratocaster: $2100 straight from Fender.  No, not Clapton's exact guitar, but a re-creation of what he plays (or played) live on stage.  Gloss black, maple neck, 22 frets, mid-boost added to the tone control, etc...

 

Fender Player Stratocaster: Same thing, same color, same guitar.  Just turn up the "midrange" control knob on the amp --- voila! Clapton's exact guitar sound - cost $850.

 

<back on topic>

Golf putters could be viewed the same way.... Bryson Dechambeau and Odyssey could go all out and recreate his exactly Odyssey Rossie and try and sell it for double what a normal Rossie would go for, just because his "name" is attached to that design.

 

I honestly feel that players should be able to putt with whatever they can sink the least amount of putts with!  Doesn't matter if it's Odyssey, Scotty, Ping, See More, etc...   A golfer could use an old Ray Cook Blue Goose from decades ago and still sink putts with it, when it really matters!

 

The best display of putting I ever witnessed was a 70-year old guy at my local muni course who used an old Yes plumbers neck blade that would resell on eBay for $50…dude shot a 72 like it was nothing. He made everything and could lag putt from 70 feet away to within 3 feet like clockwork.

[Ghostwedge]

51 minutes ago, butchammon said:

Please allow me a brief moment to go "off topic" for an analogy between golf putters/clubs and the electric guitar industry.  Same type of concept, same realization, etc...

 

Eric Clapton Stratocaster: $2100 straight from Fender.  No, not Clapton's exact guitar, but a re-creation of what he plays (or played) live on stage.  Gloss black, maple neck, 22 frets, mid-boost added to the tone control, etc...

 

Fender Player Stratocaster: Same thing, same color, same guitar.  Just turn up the "midrange" control knob on the amp --- voila! Clapton's exact guitar sound - cost $850.

 

<back on topic>

Golf putters could be viewed the same way.... Bryson Dechambeau and Odyssey could go all out and recreate his exactly Odyssey Rossie and try and sell it for double what a normal Rossie would go for, just because his "name" is attached to that design.

 

I honestly feel that players should be able to putt with whatever they can sink the least amount of putts with!  Doesn't matter if it's Odyssey, Scotty, Ping, See More, etc...   A golfer could use an old Ray Cook Blue Goose from decades ago and still sink putts with it, when it really matters!

 

Whoa...whoa...whoa... Eric Clapton ( guitar slinger legend ) and Dechambeau do not go in the same analogy. Try Hogan, Nicklaus or Woods 😉

 

[5hort5tuff]

1 hour ago, ApostateDrive said:

 

This is #1 for me. I was recently reading a thread regarding a very well known custom maker and several people chimed in that the maker was known for taking liberties with customers requests. To the point where the sentiment was that you're going to get something pretty different than ordered, but you should just enjoy it. That's absolute baloney for someone forking over $600-$900+ on a custom putter. 

 

Yes this is a real thing, I can confirm. 

 

I had 2 separate issues with custom orders. One was the wrong weight and toe hang, and the company took it back and had a new putter to me within weeks. It was perfect the second time.  Another time, the putter was not quite what I had ordered, a number of things off of spec and finish, and the company basically accused me of being wrong.  They were very difficult to work with and more or less guilted me into keeping it.... these situations for very different opinions about a company.  BUT....I do love my Mills, his work is just awesome (TP mills was not the company I referenced above)

Edited August 7, 2023 by 5hort5tuff

[IndyArcher]

My biggest gripe is putter consumers who love to buy multiple putters but apparently don’t understand how supply & demand works while helping to drive up the prices with their consumerism…

 

 

[italianstallion]

A custom putter not coming aa designed/ordered is my big one. My 1A are inner circles that develop as a brand becomes popular (often times started by the same people who migrate from brand to brand trying to make a living off it). I’ve left multiple brands because of it. 

[butchammon]

Thanks everyone for pointing out my error...  I blame it on Yuengling beer, okay? 🤣

 

Jon Rahm is with Odyssey and has his own line of the famed Rossie putter.  Bryson Dechambeau uses whatever putter he has (I'm not sure what he uses).

 

 

[MattM97]

52 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

A custom putter not coming aa designed/ordered is my big one. My 1A are inner circles that develop as a brand becomes popular (often times started by the same people who migrate from brand to brand trying to make a living off it). I’ve left multiple brands because of it. 

 

I'm trying to follow the cliques, just to maybe see what isn't "hot" anymore to snag something. But half of them just ask/demand for accessories instead of putters now. 

 

I have no clue what is the "it brand" right now. 

 

27 minutes ago, butchammon said:

Thanks everyone for pointing out my error...  I blame it on Yuengling beer, okay? 🤣

 

Jon Rahm is with Odyssey and has his own line of the famed Rossie putter.  Bryson Dechambeau uses whatever putter he has (I'm not sure what he uses).

 

 

 

Bryson uses an LA Golf putter. But not a carbon fiber one a milled steel one. They used to be SIK putters but was bought out and all the old models are basically gone except for some vendors. 

[jda]

I have only sent 3 putters back to Cameron - 2 for custom paint and a stamp (gamers) and one of my first one from about year 2000 for restoration to sit on a shelf retired.  All three came back perfect and in about three weeks (expected longer times).  I have never ordered anything custom that was new.  I am sorry to hear that any of you have custom order issues - that totally sucks.  I am sure that every company has made mistakes and I only hope that they fix them for anybody.

 

Each Yuengling can should have a Circle T on it... tour quality... especially to us folks who cannot get it locally.

 

I have been given a few tour used putters from pros, mostly a while back when I knew some of them from College.  None of them are forced to play any kind of putter - they can use whatever they want.  Most of them stick with their brand, though, since they can hit straight putts and read greens so why not make those who write the checks happy.  This was a while ago, like when tour putters got red dots on them, if any of you remember that, but I doubt that it has changed much.  Along these lines, I find the whole Jailbird MOI thing just hysterical since no tour pro needs a MOI putter with all of their massive off-center misses 🙂... the dude just likes the look or feel of it... that is all.

[st1800e]

3 hours ago, butchammon said:

whatever they can sink the least amount of putts with

Yep, all this hype over putters……the ball doesn’t know what name is on the putter. 
It’s the archer, not the arrow.  
 

[jda]

I do not agree with this completely.  Some putters get the ball rolling faster, some are better at bludgeoning them on the correct line.  Not all arrows are the same.  However, the Indian getting the line and speed right is a lot of it.

 

My first good putter was a BeCu Ping Zing 2.  I played it many years.  One day, I put a straightedge on it and the middle of the face had worn to where you could get feeler wire between the straightedge and the face.  I used a Cameron Studio putter and I was amazed at how much faster it got the ball rolling and imperfections on the green nor grain mattered as much.  I used to think that all putters were the same but instantly could tell that they were not... to each their own, but they are not the same.

 

All of this said, each brand has all of the different types, so I agree that the ball does not care what brand is on the putter, but it does care if it is rolling or skidding 9 inches off of the face.

[Putter Addict]

11 hours ago, butchammon said:

Please allow me a brief moment to go "off topic" for an analogy between golf putters/clubs and the electric guitar industry.  Same type of concept, same realization, etc...

 

Eric Clapton Stratocaster: $2100 straight from Fender.  No, not Clapton's exact guitar, but a re-creation of what he plays (or played) live on stage.  Gloss black, maple neck, 22 frets, mid-boost added to the tone control, etc...

 

Fender Player Stratocaster: Same thing, same color, same guitar.  Just turn up the "midrange" control knob on the amp --- voila! Clapton's exact guitar sound - cost $850.

 

<back on topic>

Golf putters could be viewed the same way.... Bryson Dechambeau and Odyssey could go all out and recreate his exactly Odyssey Rossie and try and sell it for double what a normal Rossie would go for, just because his "name" is attached to that design.

 

I honestly feel that players should be able to putt with whatever they can sink the least amount of putts with!  Doesn't matter if it's Odyssey, Scotty, Ping, See More, etc...   A golfer could use an old Ray Cook Blue Goose from decades ago and still sink putts with it, when it really matters!

 

Not to derail this thread even further... but saying the Clapton signature strat and the players series strat are essentially the same thing is like saying Miura blades and the irons that come in the Top Flite boxed set are the same because they are both irons. Also, mid controls all effect different frequencies so no it is not as simple as turn up the mids on your amp and it is the TBX circuit... 

 

Ok, sorry to be that guy. Back on topic now... 

[ace036]

I’ve got a couple:

 

1.) The massive alignment lines being plastered all over putter models these days-regardless of manufacturer.

 

2.) Not having the capability to offer loft and lie adjustments for “custom” or “My” putter orders (ie. Taylormade). How is this overlooked and not offered this day and age of golf club technology and club fitting? 

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, ace036 said:

I’ve got a couple:

 

1.) The massive alignment lines being plastered all over putter models these days-regardless of manufacturer.

 

2.) Not having the capability to offer loft and lie adjustments for “custom” or “My” putter orders (ie. Taylormade). How is this overlooked and not offered this day and age of golf club technology and club fitting? 

Yeah, the big OEM's will offer any style of putter you like as long as it is massively heavy and has massively hideous alignment "aids" on it. 

 

But who would need a putter that's not 34" or 35" and 70-71 degrees of lie? Or want a couple extra degrees of loft because they forward press? That's just crazy talk. 🥵

[Copious Large]

"TOUR ONLY" equipment. This has been out of hand for years. I

[BIG STU]

On 8/6/2023 at 9:26 PM, jonradus said:

The best display of putting I ever witnessed was a 70-year old guy at my local muni course who used an old Yes plumbers neck blade that would pepresell on eBay for $50…dude shot a 72 like it was nothing. He made everything and could lag putt from 70 feet away to within 3 feet like clockwork.

Yep and if you see a 60/ 70 year old with a beat to crap Bullseye , 8802 or even a SPALDING TP Mills run and keep your money in your pocket

[Tar_Heel_93]

Sean Toulon leaving Callaway, never really loving the Scotty Cameron putter I buy (they are really nice but just never stay in the rotation), Never Compromise being out of business, expensive putters with Velcro head covers, all Toulon head covers having green in them (at least they have magnets😀). 

[14max]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:36 PM, TM135 said:

People who custom stamp their putters then try to resell for same price as non stamped 

Never custom stamp unless you're willing to die with that putter in your hand.

[butchammon]

Hmmm.... The only gripe I could add to this thread is --- putters that are so outrageous in design, that they look like a cross between the Star Trek Enterprise (NCC-1701) and the Klingon D7 warship!

Good Lord...  Can't we keep things simple with either the common blade or common mallet? 🙄

[MattM97]

22 minutes ago, butchammon said:

Hmmm.... The only gripe I could add to this thread is --- putters that are so outrageous in design, that they look like a cross between the Star Trek Enterprise (NCC-1701) and the Klingon D7 warship!

Good Lord...  Can't we keep things simple with either the common blade or common mallet? 🙄

 

Why have a cross when the USS Enterprise is good enough from an MOI standpoint 

 

[MS.71]

Circle T anything

[JungleJimbo]

3 hours ago, MattM97 said:

 

Why have a cross when the USS Enterprise is good enough from an MOI standpoint 

 

Looks like an “Evnroll 10k extreme”

 

[MattM97]

5 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

Looks like an “Evnroll 10k extreme”

 

 

More like inspired the 10K Extreme

[BHI 99]

On 8/4/2023 at 3:23 PM, jda said:

Wish that companies would let you "rent" a putter to use for a few weeks - like it, you send it back and they send you a brand new one, hate it and you send it back for refund.

Buy used and fiddle around with it. Trip it when you don’t like it.