US Ryder Cup team selections (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***)

[kmbean]

BC on GC saying he doesn’t think Brooks will get picked if he falls outside the top 6.  And saying he shouldn’t get picked because it will validate and give too much attention to LIV.  Isn’t the point of all this to get the best players on the team?  This is exactly why the captain should have less picks, limit the political bs. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by kmbean

[Duct Tape]

I don’t think Zach is as petty as Brandel.  And putting politics aside Bruce is probably a good pick for the team. Better than some of the other candidates, assuming he falls out of the automatic spot. 
 

A. Davis - “Just win baby”. 
 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Duct Tape

[LBB]

39 minutes ago, kmbean said:

BC on GC saying he doesn’t think Brooks will get picked if he falls outside the top 6.  And saying he shouldn’t get picked because it will validate and give too much attention to LIV.  Isn’t the point of all this to get the best players on the team?  This is exactly why the captain should have less picks, limit the political bs. 

ZJ will choose to do what he wants, but I hardly think that ZJ is asking BC what is opinion is on who should get picked and why.  

[kmbean]

3 minutes ago, LBB said:

ZJ will choose to do what he wants, but I hardly think that ZJ is asking BC what is opinion is on who should get picked and why.  

Not the point.  The point is the captain shouldn’t have the ability to even consider such an option.

[johnseg]

10 minutes ago, kmbean said:

Not the point.  The point is the captain shouldn’t have the ability to even consider such an option.

Why? Isn't the whole competition about putting together a team and completing. It doesn't say take the top 12 ranked guys. Maybe it should but that isn't the model they choose to use. You see in this thread people saying that JT should have no shot but Finau who is way behind him in points should get picked. This isn't about merit per se. This is about the captain picking his team and letting the cards fall where they may. There are 6-guys that cannot be replaced and the rest can be anyone eligible.

 

I understand your point is that there should be little to no captain picks but that is not where we are.

[jimecherry]

12 minutes ago, johnseg said:

Why? Isn't the whole competition about putting together a team and completing. It doesn't say take the top 12 ranked guys. Maybe it should but that isn't the model they choose to use. You see in this thread people saying that JT should have no shot but Finau who is way behind him in points should get picked. This isn't about merit per se. This is about the captain picking his team and letting the cards fall where they may. There are 6-guys that cannot be replaced and the rest can be anyone eligible.

 

I understand your point is that there should be little to no captain picks but that is not where we are.

they increased the picks to 6 due to covid and think its time they reverted back to 4

[LBB]

38 minutes ago, kmbean said:

Not the point.  The point is the captain shouldn’t have the ability to even consider such an option.

Ok, then let me rephrase...I'm sure ZJ will not be asking BC, you, me, or anyone else on this forum as to what their opinion is on who should be picked, and why.  You're entitled to your opinion of course, just like BC is...but just because BC states his opinion, you don't have to worry too much about it since he's paid to state opinions...he's not in the role he's in with the Golf Channel to state facts.

Edited August 17, 2023 by LBB

[grm24]

17 minutes ago, johnseg said:

I understand your point is that there should be little to no captain picks but that is not where we are.

And many either don't know or remember that its wasn't that long ago that the US squad had 10 automatic qualifiers and 2 captains picks. Some people then thought the team captain should have more of a choice who was on the team and expanded to 4 captains picks. Now some people only want 2 or even none. Many times the 10 automatic qualifiers contained some dead weight due to the qualifying system.

 

From what Seth Waught said at the start of 2023 that there is zero chance of going back to 4 captains picks. RC captains should have more of a say who makes their team instead of less. 

[SatchelRuaz]

45 minutes ago, kmbean said:

Not the point.  The point is the captain shouldn’t have the ability to even consider such an option.

 

Pre-merger I probably would've sided with you here. But now that the PGA Tour turned their back on the players who were loyal, I don't see how all the LIV guys shouldn't be an option for ZJ. If they are good enough and he wants to pick them, he should be able to. Clearly Brooks is good enough and deserves to be on the team based on The Masters and the PGA. 

[kmbean]

20 minutes ago, LBB said:

Ok, then let me rephrase...I'm sure ZJ will not be asking BC, you, me, or anyone else on this forum as to what their opinion is on who should be picked, and why.  You're entitled to your opinion of course, just like BC is...but just because BC states his opinion, you don't have to worry too much about it since he's paid to state opinions...he's not in the role he's in with the Golf Channel to state facts.

BC hinted he has heard BK would not make the team if he didn’t auto qualify in the top 6.  Who knows maybe it’s all made up drivel to try to drive ratings.  We will see what happens if BK drops to 7 or worse.
 

BK has had limited opportunities to make the team, he has only had the ability to accumulate points 4 times a year at the majors right?  And he has played so well in those limited opportunities, 8 major events over the 2 year qualifying period, that he is on the edge of being in the top 6.  If ZJ is petty enough to keep him off the team then he is motivated by other factors vs picking the best possible team to try to win the Ryder Cup. 
 

The Ryder Cup captaincy was originally intended to be a honorary type role to recognize your career and give you a chance to lead the team.  I just don’t care for how the role has grown to the point it has now.  

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by kmbean

[ronsc1985]

1 hour ago, kmbean said:

BC on GC saying he doesn’t think Brooks will get picked if he falls outside the top 6.  And saying he shouldn’t get picked because it will validate and give too much attention to LIV.  Isn’t the point of all this to get the best players on the team?  This is exactly why the captain should have less picks, limit the political bs. 

Don't expect anything resembling logic from BC when it has any association with LIV. Hard to tell if he believes the crap he spews or if he is just parroting the party line to keep his job.

[3whacker]

ZJ answers to the PGA its one of the reasons they chose him, he and the PGA are taking Brooks because he won the PGA and qualified on points. BK satisfies the critics that will question why no LIV players are picked...both DLIII and FC are staunch PGA guys so they wont stand up for any LIV guys

[LBB]

19 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

🤣 This ain't Al Bundy bragging about 4 TDs at Polk High. JT won the PGA last year. He went 4-1 at the President Cup last year. He's 14th in the current points standing. I'm on record saying he shouldn't make the team this year but the people acting like his inclusion would be some egregious political scandal need to settle down. I'm sure there have been far worse selections.  

The reasons you list above are why JT made the PC last year.  JT is carrying 3419 RC points from the six 2022 results that count  to total 6539 RC points he currently has. 

 

Rickie Fowler is only carrying over 130 points because he didn't play in a lot of the 2022 events that earn RC points.  So while Fowler is ahead of JT by 400 points now (and will grow after the BMW), he's almost 4000 RC points ahead of JT for events this year.

 

Denny McCarthy sits in 15th, 280 points behind JT currently, and only had 593 points from 2022 events that earn RC points.  McCarthy will still earn points at the BMW, but even if he didn't, he's scored over 2500 more RC points in 2023 than JT did.

 

Theegala, who sits in 25th, and wasn't even on Tour for the 2022 events that count, still has over 1000 more RC points than JT in 2023.

 

I get it...ZJ developed the point system that is in use when he was named captain.  But he also has the authority to overrule his point system so long as the golfer isn't in the top 6.  If ZJ chooses JT, he's going to do so knowing his performance in 2023 ranks somewhere in the top 30 in terms of RC points, 71st in FedEx Cup points, 47th in money, and 60th in Top 10 finishes.  That, in my opinion, would be an egregious pick...but stranger things have happened.

[grm24]

9 minutes ago, kmbean said:

And he has played so well in those limited opportunities, 8 major events over the 2 year qualifying period, that he is on the edge of being in the top 6.

Koepka flat out stunk in the 4 majors last year. MC, T55th, 55th, MC. Koepka played amazing in the fist two majors this season. Which was a huge benefit for qualifying for the RC as in 2023 points earned for the majors were doubled this year. He played average at the US Open and was awful at the Open Championship. If he falls out of the top 6 I doubt he gets a captains pick.

[grm24]

4 minutes ago, LBB said:

I get it...ZJ developed the point system that is in use when he was named captain. 

The current RC point system was in place before ZJ was named RC captain.

[LBB]

12 minutes ago, grm24 said:

The current RC point system was in place before ZJ was named RC captain.

You are correct that ZJ did not develop it, my error in wording.  But he did choose to keep the same point system Stricker used in 2022 rather than coming up with his own points criteria and keep the same 6 captain picks Stricker used due to Covid.  Regardless, ZJ owns the system to pick the team he approved when accepting the captaincy.

[Tpfol]

If Koepka falls out of the top 6 and doesnt get picked, I wont watch the Ryder Cup. I know its inconsequential, the Ryder Cup wont miss me and all that, but it's ridiculous to me that  they would put the BS politics ahead of fielding a team with the best chance to win. 

[bladehunter]

9 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

If Koepka falls out of the top 6 and doesnt get picked, I wont watch the Ryder Cup. I know its inconsequential, the Ryder Cup wont miss me and all that, but it's ridiculous to me that  they would put the BS politics ahead of fielding a team with the best chance to win. 

Eh.  His record is 6-5-1.  Not really a sure fire point.    I’m fine with him being picked. But I wouldn’t pick him above Glover.  

[SatchelRuaz]

16 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Eh.  His record is 6-5-1.  Not really a sure fire point.    I’m fine with him being picked. But I wouldn’t pick him above Glover.  

 

Correct. His record isn't great and he has been openly disinterested in playing golf outside of major championships. 

 

When the LIV thing initially happened I thought the US team might be better for it because guys like DJ and BK didn't really seem to care about the Ryder Cup. If you take them at face value, they want to play less golf, not more.

 

All that said, if BK wants to be on the team, he should be. He's still elite and he's earned it, but if he doesn't want to play he should just tell ZJ that. 

[grm24]

1 hour ago, LBB said:

You are correct that ZJ did not develop it, my error in wording.  But he did choose to keep the same point system Stricker used in 2022 rather than coming up with his own points criteria and keep the same 6 captain picks Stricker used due to Covid.  Regardless, ZJ owns the system to pick the team he approved when accepting the captaincy.

The way I recall reading about it was PGA of America management that decided to keep this current format. It wasn't ZJ's call. I like the 6/6 format. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by grm24

[3whacker]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

Koepka flat out stunk in the 4 majors last year. MC, T55th, 55th, MC. Koepka played amazing in the fist two majors this season. Which was a huge benefit for qualifying for the RC as in 2023 points earned for the majors were doubled this year. He played average at the US Open and was awful at the Open Championship. If he falls out of the top 6 I doubt he gets a captains pick.

I will give Brooks a pass on the Open, his mind was elsewhere, a premature birth and his son spending a month in NICU

[Rob G 89]

3 hours ago, kmbean said:

BC on GC saying he doesn’t think Brooks will get picked if he falls outside the top 6.  And saying he shouldn’t get picked because it will validate and give too much attention to LIV.  Isn’t the point of all this to get the best players on the team?  This is exactly why the captain should have less picks, limit the political bs. 

Is there precedent of a major champion not making a Ryder/president cup the year they won?

[grm24]

17 minutes ago, 3whacker said:

I will give Brooks a pass on the Open, his mind was elsewhere, a premature birth and his son spending a month in NICU

I had not heard that about Brooks and his wife. That's awful and it's understandable that his mind was elsewhere. Thank You for the information.

[mshills]

Only tangentially related to the player selection debate, but good grief, the US team needs a new wardrobe designer. 
 

Ralph, 1992 called, holding on Line One!

 

I am a proponent of the look good feel good, feel good play good, play good pay good mantra, and this ain’t it. 

[3whacker]

3 minutes ago, mshills said:

Only tangentially related to the player selection debate, but good grief, the US team needs a new wardrobe designer. 
 

Ralph, 1992 called, holding on Line One!

 

I am a proponent of the look good feel good, feel good play good, play good pay good mantra, and this ain’t it. 

its usually the same as the Captain but in this case its the Vice Capt DLIII that is a Ralph Lauren/Polo sponsored clothing contract

[3whacker]

35 minutes ago, Rob G 89 said:

Is there precedent of a major champion not making a Ryder/president cup the year they won?

the selection process used to be double the points in the majors in a Ryder Cup year and the PGA champion was an automatic and I think they did away with that after Shaun Micheel won the PGA

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Tpfol said:

If Koepka falls out of the top 6 and doesnt get picked, I wont watch the Ryder Cup. I know its inconsequential, the Ryder Cup wont miss me and all that, but it's ridiculous to me that  they would put the BS politics ahead of fielding a team with the best chance to win. 

Is he that good though?  He played really well in TWO events over two months ago….yippee!  That is all we have really seen from him over the last two years.  Do two good events get you a Ryder Cup spot?

[Shilgy]

6 hours ago, SatchelRuaz said:

I think it's interesting so many people consider Cam Young a lock...

 

For what? A T-8 at The Open? He came in 2nd at the WGC Match Play, but that was almost six months ago. Outside of The Open he hasn't had a T25 in a decent field since The Masters, right after the WGC.

 

I think 1-8 are safe. 

 

1. Scottie

2. Wyndham

3. Cantlay

4. Harman

5. Brooks

6. Max

7. Xander

8. Spieth

 

The remaining 4 spots, IMO, could go to any one of the following 10 guys:

 

1. Cam Young (9th)

2. Morikawa (10th)

3. Keegan (11th)

4. Burns (12th)

5. Rickie (13th)

6. JT (14th)

7. Lucas Glover (16th)

8. Tony Finau (21st)

9. DJ (40th)

10. Bryson (53rd)

 

If it's me, I'm going Keegan, Glover, Rickie and JT. Number of factors there. Glover being the hot hand. Keegan has won recently and really cares. JT has a spectacular record in team events, seemed to be finding something late and wants more than anyone. Rickie having been on winning teams and his ball striking. 

 

That's as it stands now. Guy I'm most interested to watch the next two weeks is Morikawa. I'd also give Bryson more of a look if I didn't think he was a thorn in the team room. Dude is just weird. 

 

Like it or not, it's a made for TV event. Names like JT and Rickie are going to draw more eyes than Young or Burns. 

What did JT “seem to be finding of late?  In his last 8 events he made just 3 cuts.

 

edited to add…I like Justin Thomas but he does not deserve to be on this years team.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Shilgy

[BombinJim]

I wonder if JT will wear the Ralph Lauren team outfits since the USA team is sponsored by them…

[black bnr32]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Is he that good though?  He played really well in TWO events over two months ago….yippee!  That is all we have really seen from him over the last two years.  Do two good events get you a Ryder Cup spot?

He’s played well on LIV for about the last year