Oakland Hills Restoration

[PrincipalsNose]

Has anyone played Oakland Hills South and thoughts on the property/restoration? I have the opportunity to potentially play it

[cassel191919]

2 hours ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Has anyone played Oakland Hills South and thoughts on the property/restoration? I have the opportunity to potentially play it

I have played it several times since the restoration. I think the course looks way better without all the trees and the softening of some of the bunkers. The biggest change is #7 and I think the hole and green complex is much better than it was before, I just wisht hey would let the grass get deeper in the ravines. 

 

It is quite sad seeing it without the club house, that back drop was always pretty special.

[PrincipalsNose]

18 hours ago, cassel191919 said:

I have played it several times since the restoration. I think the course looks way better without all the trees and the softening of some of the bunkers. The biggest change is #7 and I think the hole and green complex is much better than it was before, I just wisht hey would let the grass get deeper in the ravines. 

 

It is quite sad seeing it without the club house, that back drop was always pretty special.

Probably a phenomenal course. What bracket of courses would you compare it to? 

[cassel191919]

38 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Probably a phenomenal course. What bracket of courses would you compare it to? 

Of courses ive played it is right near the top. I have played Oakmont and Crystal Downs in my mind Oakland Hills South has the best greens I have played (they do need to fix 11, but I think that is being done this fall)

[PrincipalsNose]

21 minutes ago, cassel191919 said:

Of courses ive played it is right near the top. I have played Oakmont and Crystal Downs in my mind Oakland Hills South has the best greens I have played (they do need to fix 11, but I think that is being done this fall)

How does it compare to Oakmont? 

[cassel191919]

23 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

How does it compare to Oakmont? 

Oakmont is my favorite course so its a little tough. I would say Oakland Hills unless its around the invite or club championship is a little softer when it comes to difficulty. The rough is always thick, but isn't overly long unless very wayward. Oakmont is almost always ready to host a US Open the rough is thick and long and greens are always the fastest you will ever play.

 

Greens wise Oakland Hills just roll so pure with interesting slopes and grain plays a crucial part if you want to make the putt. Oakmont has almost no flat spots and are just so incredibly fast I had trouble keeping chips above the hole on the green.

[mshills]

Oakmont and Oakland Hills are equivalent -- would be really impossible to determine which is "better" as they are both extraordinary.  It is no exaggeration -- the greens at Oakmont are more severe and difficult than anywhere in the world, but they are not clown-show stuff.  They are wonderful.

 

The above post is spot on.  I would add that playing Oakland Hills day in and day out might be slightly more enjoyable, but I'm not so sure about that.  It's easy for me to sit here and say "I would not want to play Oakmont every day" but come on man that is not true, I would love to play Oakmont every day and get my teeth kicked in!  🙂

[PrincipalsNose]

21 minutes ago, mshills said:

Oakmont and Oakland Hills are equivalent -- would be really impossible to determine which is "better" as they are both extraordinary.  It is no exaggeration -- the greens at Oakmont are more severe and difficult than anywhere in the world, but they are not clown-show stuff.  They are wonderful.

 

The above post is spot on.  I would add that playing Oakland Hills day in and day out might be slightly more enjoyable, but I'm not so sure about that.  It's easy for me to sit here and say "I would not want to play Oakmont every day" but come on man that is not true, I would love to play Oakmont every day and get my teeth kicked in!  🙂

Sounds like I should go play then haha. Seems like Gil Hanse did a great job 

[cassel191919]

1 hour ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Sounds like I should go play then haha. Seems like Gil Hanse did a great job 

You should absolutely go play and he did a great job outside of the front of 11 green and that will be fixed soon.

[So_Cal]

On 8/31/2023 at 5:43 AM, PrincipalsNose said:

Has anyone played Oakland Hills South and thoughts on the property/restoration? I have the opportunity to potentially play it

It’s probably the best restoration I’ve seen.  Great greens.  Was a bummer not to have a clubhouse 

 

My Oakland Hills member friend says Oakmont is better fyi 

Edited September 1, 2023 by So_Cal

[PrincipalsNose]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:26 AM, So_Cal said:

It’s probably the best restoration I’ve seen.  Great greens.  Was a bummer not to have a clubhouse 

 

My Oakland Hills member friend says Oakmont is better fyi 

I've heard it has gorgeous conditioning. But what course at this level doesn't?  How did you find the course? Playing in a couple weeks.

[So_Cal]

19 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

I've heard it has gorgeous conditioning. But what course at this level doesn't?  How did you find the course? Playing in a couple weeks.

It’s one of Ross’s best designs.  The restoration made a huge difference.  Excellent greens, lots of variety, holes change direction often, large scale.  Very playable for bogey golfer but still a beast off tips for the scratch.  Favorite holes 1 (great green), 5, 7 (totally changed in restoration), 8, 9, 10-11 (Ross said his best consecutive par 4’s, 14 (amazing green), 16 (Gary Player PGA shot) 17 (that bunker), 18 (tough finisher in majors as par 4, Hanse fixed the bunkering).  Overall it’s a just solid.  Not something that’s going to blow you away visually but if you enjoy the subtleties it’s really good.  Plus the history of majors with Hogan, Player, Nicklaus, Palmer etc it’s really cool.  Have fun 

[PrincipalsNose]

8 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

It’s one of Ross’s best designs.  The restoration made a huge difference.  Excellent greens, lots of variety, holes change direction often, large scale.  Very playable for bogey golfer but still a beast off tips for the scratch.  Favorite holes 1 (great green), 5, 7 (totally changed in restoration), 8, 9, 10-11 (Ross said his best consecutive par 4’s, 14 (amazing green), 16 (Gary Player PGA shot) 17 (that bunker), 18 (tough finisher in majors as par 4, Hanse fixed the bunkering).  Overall it’s a just solid.  Not something that’s going to blow you away visually but if you enjoy the subtleties it’s really good.  Plus the history of majors with Hogan, Player, Nicklaus, Palmer etc it’s really cool.  Have fun 

Thanks. Would you say post restoration it fits in the tier of WF, Shinny, Oakmont etc?

 

Also, do you know if they sell flags in the shop? Love having them on my wall. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by PrincipalsNose

[So_Cal]

17 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Thanks. Would you say post restoration it fits in the tier of WF, Shinny, Oakmont etc?

 

Also, do you know if they sell flags in the shop? Love having them on my wall. 

I haven’t played those yet unfortunately.  My friend said it’s more interesting than WF.  Said WF gets kinda repetitive.  The rankings would saying Shinny and Oakmont (top 3-6) are better.  Oakland is usually 15-25 range US.  That being said I think you will enjoy it.  Very easy to walk with good routing, solid architecture with no weak holes.  The clubhouse was a big part of the experience and visually from the course.  So they need that back.  The makeshift pro shop if well stocked.  They will have flags unless sold out.  Enjoy, I would play tomorrow in a heartbeat.  Nicklaus said OH has best greens in America with Augusta and I agree.  One of my favorite tracks.  

[PrincipalsNose]

1 hour ago, So_Cal said:

I haven’t played those yet unfortunately.  My friend said it’s more interesting than WF.  Said WF gets kinda repetitive.  The rankings would saying Shinny and Oakmont (top 3-6) are better.  Oakland is usually 15-25 range US.  That being said I think you will enjoy it.  Very easy to walk with good routing, solid architecture with no weak holes.  The clubhouse was a big part of the experience and visually from the course.  So they need that back.  The makeshift pro shop if well stocked.  They will have flags unless sold out.  Enjoy, I would play tomorrow in a heartbeat.  Nicklaus said OH has best greens in America with Augusta and I agree.  One of my favorite tracks.  

You are right. Probably more in the LACC, Riviera, The Country Club, Oak Hill tier. Which are all fantastic courses. This will be my first Donald Ross course!! So I’m beyond excited. Any idea what the greens typically roll at?

Edited September 8, 2023 by PrincipalsNose

[So_Cal]

2 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

You are right. Probably more in the LACC, Riviera, The Country Club, Oak Hill tier. Which are all fantastic courses. This will be my first Donald Ross course!! So I’m beyond excited. Any idea what the greens typically roll at?

I’ve played LA North and Riv.  It’s right with those.  Oakland Hills is a better course than Oak Hill.  Oak Hill is way too narrow, like 50% narrower than what Ross designed.   They failed to restore that.  Not sure the speed but plenty fast enough considering how many times I three putted. 

[PrincipalsNose]

21 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

I’ve played LA North and Riv.  It’s right with those.  Oakland Hills is a better course than Oak Hill.  Oak Hill is way too narrow, like 50% narrower than what Ross designed.   They failed to restore that.  Not sure the speed but plenty fast enough considering how many times I three putted. 

Absolutely haha! Should be a good test. Hoping there aren’t degreens like at No.2 😂 don’t think turtle domes was Ross’ theme at OH lol 

Edited September 8, 2023 by PrincipalsNose

[jshel]

I have played twice since the Hanse work was done. It is really good. There are a ton of good holes, but it is pretty playable for a championship test in that you aren't going to lose a million balls and make double all of the time. 

 

There are a lot of really cool greens and it was really nicely done. Tree removal was needed and there are some great vistas. 

[PrincipalsNose]

3 hours ago, jshel said:

I have played twice since the Hanse work was done. It is really good. There are a ton of good holes, but it is pretty playable for a championship test in that you aren't going to lose a million balls and make double all of the time. 

 

There are a lot of really cool greens and it was really nicely done. Tree removal was needed and there are some great vistas. 

Ive read the suggestions above but what would you compare it to? both from a style and prestige perspective

[So_Cal]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:02 PM, PrincipalsNose said:

Ive read the suggestions above but what would you compare it to? both from a style and prestige perspective

IMO there’s no close Ross comparison.  It’s unique, which is hard to do for parkland courses.  Prestige wise it’s all an opinion.  Have fun and let’s us know how it went 

[burnsniper]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:11 AM, PrincipalsNose said:

You are right. Probably more in the LACC, Riviera, The Country Club, Oak Hill tier. Which are all fantastic courses. This will be my first Donald Ross course!! So I’m beyond excited. Any idea what the greens typically roll at?

I have played Riviera and Oakland Hills and IMO Riviera is way better. 

[So_Cal]

20 minutes ago, burnsniper said:

I have played Riviera and Oakland Hills and IMO Riviera is way better. 

After the restoration?

 

I think Riv’s design is slightly better but the presentation is fairly weak.  It needs a restoration by Hanse pretty badly.  When you see how bad some holes have devolved compared to the original Thomas design it’s heartbreaking.  Throw in the sticky non-native grass and it’s a stark contrast compared to the excellent playing surfaces as LACC or Valley Club for example.  Riv could be amazing but it’s not even close to maximized right now 

[burnsniper]

7 hours ago, So_Cal said:

After the restoration?

 

I think Riv’s design is slightly better but the presentation is fairly weak.  It needs a restoration by Hanse pretty badly.  When you see how bad some holes have devolved compared to the original Thomas design it’s heartbreaking.  Throw in the sticky non-native grass and it’s a stark contrast compared to the excellent playing surfaces as LACC or Valley Club for example.  Riv could be amazing but it’s not even close to maximized right now 

I played just before it closed for renovation.    IMO Riviera is underrated as it is one of the few courses that truly has 18 different holes and no hole features any of the features of the other holes - every hole is something new. The only other courses that I have played that can achieve this are Crystal Downs (Front 10 and last 2, the middle of the back nine doesn’t do this) and TPC Sawgrass which is basically this concept taken to the extreme.

[PrincipalsNose]

2 hours ago, burnsniper said:

I played just before it closed for renovation.    IMO Riviera is underrated as it is one of the few courses that truly has 18 different holes and no hole features any of the features of the other holes - every hole is something new. The only other courses that I have played that can achieve this are Crystal Downs (Front 10 and last 2, the middle of the back nine doesn’t do this) and TPC Sawgrass which is basically this concept taken to the extreme.

Seems like before and after the restoration is quite a difference!! 

[So_Cal]

57 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Seems like before and after the restoration is quite a difference!! 

The biggest difference pre and post I’ve seen.  Pre was frankly just okay 

[So_Cal]

3 hours ago, burnsniper said:

I played just before it closed for renovation.    IMO Riviera is underrated as it is one of the few courses that truly has 18 different holes and no hole features any of the features of the other holes - every hole is something new. The only other courses that I have played that can achieve this are Crystal Downs (Front 10 and last 2, the middle of the back nine doesn’t do this) and TPC Sawgrass which is basically this concept taken to the extreme.

If Riv ever restored properly it would be the Pine Valley of the west IMO.  It’s still pretty darn good as is. 

[PrincipalsNose]

53 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

If Riv ever restored properly it would be the Pine Valley of the west IMO.  It’s still pretty darn good as is. 

Does it being a regular tour stop make it tricky to be restored? Where would they play the year it’s closed? 

[So_Cal]

37 minutes ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Does it being a regular tour stop make it tricky to be restored? Where would they play the year it’s closed? 

I don’t pretend to know enough about the internal politics of Riv.  Doubt anything happens 

[PrincipalsNose]

18 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

I don’t pretend to know enough about the internal politics of Riv.  Doubt anything happens 

Forsure. The previous guy comparing Oakland Hills pre restoration and Riv I feel is a little unfair. 
 

Comparing Oakland Hills pre restoration is like calling a girl flat but she recently got breast implants. Lol 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, PrincipalsNose said:

Does it being a regular tour stop make it tricky to be restored? Where would they play the year it’s closed? 

Why would it make it tricky? Riviera has done it before.  Billy Mayfair won the 1998 LA(Nissan Open) over Tiger at Valencia CC.  It subbed for Riviera for the one year.