Kbs shaft fittting for older but still near scratch

[Thayneil]

So my buddie went to a fitting centre and emded up with  tour lite in r flex!

 

Hes a super player 64 now still of 1 handicap 7 iron 78.ish

Im 5000 miles away but hes been asking for my.imput.I said he would swing the tour lite ok with 50 balls at the range but struggle in windy or under any pressure.

 

Ive suggested kbs tour 110 or 115s  i have played lot of golf with him.over the years.

 

He won a National senior.championship few years ago

 

My.point was tour lite r is the softest tour level shaft( ignore the kbs 80) so what would the fitter recommend for me same age but swingspeed near70 to 72?

 

 

[5hort5tuff]

What shafts is he using now? Why did he go for a fitting? Smooth swing? Some more info would help a lot.

[skraly]

There are more factors to fitting than just swing speed.  As you live 5000 miles away I’m guessing you may not have seen his swing lately.  Why not have him reshaft a single club with the Tour Lite and see if it works for him on the course.  That’s a minimal investment.

An addendum-Fred Couples used a 3 wood with a ladies flex shaft in it for several years.  Just use what works.  Don’t get bound up in dogma.

Edited September 12, 2023 by skraly

[Thayneil]

1 hour ago, skraly said:

There are more factors to fitting than just swing speed.  As you live 5000 miles away I’m guessing you may not have seen his swing lately.  Why not have him reshaft a single club with the Tour Lite and see if it works for him on the course.  That’s a minimal investment.

An addendum-Fred Couples used a 3 wood with a ladies flex shaft in it for several years.  Just use what works.  Don’t get bound up in dogma.

Freddie had that club reshafted  straight away!

 

2 hours ago, 5hort5tuff said:

What shafts is he using now? Why did he go for a fitting? Smooth swing? Some more info would help a lot.

Good solid swing medium tempo.He was using steelfibre 95 stiff!.

 

Felt the steelfibre were getting too stiff and boardy.Hes a much better played than i am 2 clubs longer yet i think the tour lites are soft.From kbs website they are around  3

0 on fm scale.His swingspeed would suggest around 4.5 to 5.0

[NevadaGolfGuy]

Far too many variables beyond swing speed to really make any sort of educated guess on this, but I would bet if he won a national senior championship and has been playing that long he no doubt went to a reputable fitter so I wouldn't doubt that he does indeed fit into those shafts. However if he doesn't like how they play or feel it doesn't really matter how well he "fits" into them, I would advise he gives them a shot though or at the very least perhaps have him go to a fitting somewhere else and get a second opinion. Just to be that guy and interject a counter point most all of the long drive guys play senior or ladies flex in their long drive setups...

[Thayneil]

The fitter is probably.not a shaft guru.just try a few shafts and see.

 

I have used tour lite in stiff and they are still 4.0.flex.

 

I will leave him.to see how he gets on.He has great hands and will.adapt.

[5hort5tuff]

If he went from Steelfibre i95 stiff, which are actually reasonably stout, he may want to get a second opinion. Depending on ball flight and weight, he could always go with something like KBS Tour 90 which are a little heavier and firmer. 

[Thayneil]

Kbs 90.has been superceeded by the Tour  Lite!  

 

More likely to suit the tour 110s

 

The tour lites might be ok.in stiff or even x for him but not the R

 

Def needs a second look.and the fitter has agreed .

Edited September 13, 2023 by Thayneil
spelling

[AzRoger]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:26 AM, Thayneil said:

 

Hes a super player 64 now still of 1 handicap 7 iron 78.ish

 

It's impressive that he can maintain a 1 handicap hitting a 7 iron ~120 yards, he must be a wizard with the long irons, woods, and putter.

[Thayneil]

15 hours ago, AzRoger said:

It's impressive that he can maintain a 1 handicap hitting a 7 iron ~120 yards, he must be a wizard with the long irons, woods, and putter.

his speed is 78 app he hits  his 7 iron 160 ish not 120

 

he was a pro in his earlier years still hell of a player

[Stuart_G]

On 9/12/2023 at 2:15 AM, Thayneil said:

Freddie had that club reshafted  straight away!

 

Good solid swing medium tempo.He was using steelfibre 95 stiff!.

 

Felt the steelfibre were getting too stiff and boardy.

 

At the risk of stating the obvious - it sounds like he should try the Steelfiber i95 in reg flex.

 

If he's used to and has been happy playing 95 gm shafts - and the only issue was the stiffness - then he should stick to shafts in that 95 gm range and most likely should not jump up in weight to 110 or 115 gm shafts.  

 

And if he wants something in that weight range that is still somewhat tip stiff to avoid gaining too much launch - that would mean sticking with graphite - hence sticking with the i95 but dropping flex - or even something like the UST Recoil 95 in reg flex.  Or if he want's just a little softer tip but keep the butt more firm - try the steelfiber i90's in stiff.

 

 

On 9/11/2023 at 10:26 AM, Thayneil said:

So my buddie went to a fitting centre and emded up with  tour lite in r flex!

 

Taper tip or parallel tip version of that shaft?

 

On 9/11/2023 at 10:26 AM, Thayneil said:

I said he would swing the tour lite ok with 50 balls at the range but struggle in windy or under any pressure.

 

In what way did he struggle?

What does he think about the stiffness feel?

Is it a new set of clubs or the old clubs reshafted?  

If new - what else might have changed besides the shaft?  (Ie.g. how does the swing weight compare between the new and old clubs) 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Stuart_G

[Thayneil]

33 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

At the risk of stating the obvious - it sounds like he should try the Steelfiber i95 in reg flex.

 

If he's used to and has been happy playing 95 gm shafts - and the only issue was the stiffness - then he should stick to shafts in that 95 gm range and most likely should not jump up in weight to 110 or 115 gm shafts.  

 

And if he wants something in that weight range that is still somewhat tip stiff to avoid gaining too much launch - that would mean sticking with graphite - hence sticking with the i95 but dropping flex - or even something like the UST Recoil 95 in reg flex.  Or if he want's just a little softer tip but keep the butt more firm - try the steelfiber i90's in stiff.

 

 

 

Taper tip or parallel tip version of that shaft?

 

 

In what way did he struggle?

What does he think about the stiffness feel?

Is it a new set of clubs or the old clubs reshafted?  

If new - what else might have changed besides the shaft?  (Ie.g. how does the swing weight compare between the new and old clubs) 

 

he played  the  Ns pro 115 stiffs for years

 

of course  he could save a few $$$ and soft step  his   steelfibres  by 2 

 

by struggle i mean  he would be consistent at the range  but hit the odd high hook on the course.I know from experience  pin high or past the pin left is rarely if ever a god place to chip from

 

I was a long time  5 handicapper  but always fought a hook.Now experimenting with stiffer shafts and flatter lies

 

I know  the shop/fitting center and for years  they  mocked anything that wasn't standard, now with the shortages  they  have suddenly become expert fitters and builders. I will ask him if he got a build sheet@

 

My  question  is  if  he was fitted for  Tour Lites in R what would they give me? I am  70 mph and  135 7 iron now .

 

I think they are  TM 790 irons  , according to KBS  tour lites are 3.0 in taper and parallel with normal tipping. Of course  they could be  tipped  extra  but  i don't expect them to  do that

 

I will leave  him to  his  own devices for now thanks for  help

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

4 minutes ago, Thayneil said:

My  question  is  if  he was fitted for  Tour Lites in R what would they give me? I am  70 mph and  135 7 iron now.

 

If they are not good fitters (as you seem to imply), you shouldn't really care what they'd give you.

 

If they are good fitters - what they'd do with you would have nothing to do with what they did with your friend.   Fitting is 100% individual - you can not translate what they do to one person over to a different person.

 

e.g.  I'm maybe a little bit faster but still pretty slow - maybe 140 yard 7i.    But I still play stiff shafts (the SF fc90's) that's because I like relatively stiff feeling shafts and going softer doesn't help me in any way.   For me it's ALL about weight and not getting too heavy.   But that's me.   Different people have different needs and sensitivities to certain changes.   And figuring out those particular (and unique) needs and sensitivities is what a fitting is all about.

 

So forget what was done with your friend and keep doing your own experimentation to figure things out.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Stuart_G

[AzRoger]

7 hours ago, Thayneil said:

his speed is 78 app he hits  his 7 iron 160 ish not 120

 

he was a pro in his earlier years still hell of a player

Maybe the swing speed to distance chart I was looking at is outdated.

Edit: The chart does seem to be way off based on my last fitting using trackman.

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by AzRoger

[Thayneil]

42 minutes ago, AzRoger said:

Maybe the swing speed to distance chart I was looking at is outdated.

Edit: The chart does seem to be way off basd on my last fitting using trackman.

 

Seems way out

[Thayneil]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

If they are not good fitters (as you seem to imply), you shouldn't really care what they'd give you.

 

If they are good fitters - what they'd do with you would have nothing to do with what they did with your friend.   Fitting is 100% individual - you can not translate what they do to one person over to a different person.

 

e.g.  I'm maybe a little bit faster but still pretty slow - maybe 140 yard 7i.    But I still play stiff shafts (the SF fc90's) that's because I like relatively stiff feeling shafts and going softer doesn't help me in any way.   For me it's ALL about weight and not getting too heavy.   But that's me.   Different people have different needs and sensitivities to certain changes.   And figuring out those particular (and unique) needs and sensitivities is what a fitting is all about.

 

So forget what was done with your friend and keep doing your own experimentation to figure things out.

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

[Stuart_G]

40 minutes ago, AzRoger said:

Maybe the swing speed to distance chart I was looking at is outdated.

 

Where did you get it?

 

Although to be honest, there are too many variables other than swing speed to be able to create any useful table to be able to predict what distance one "should" get given their swing speed.   Best you might be able to get is some average of what to expect.

 

[Orchardist]

Whoa...78 in a tour lite R?  Smooooth tempo he must have.   There are so many shafts in that weight it's a bit of nightmare to sort out when considering going light.  The fitters always seem to have every shaft but the one you to demo. 

[Thayneil]

23 hours ago, Orchardist said:

Whoa...78 in a tour lite R?  Smooooth tempo he must have.   There are so many shafts in that weight it's a bit of nightmare to sort out when considering going light.  The fitters always seem to have every shaft but the one you to demo. 

yes i agree

 

I will ask him if he has a build sheet would be required if any shafts need replaced   or at least a start point  to see what he actually has in terms  of  tipping/hard step etc

 

Knowing the  shop and their recent  sojurn into fitting I would be surprised  if its anything except a standard install

[NRJyzr]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:54 AM, AzRoger said:

Maybe the swing speed to distance chart I was looking at is outdated.

Edit: The chart does seem to be way off based on my last fitting using trackman.

 

 

The swingspeed in that chart is driver swingspeed.  I believe Thayneil referenced his friend's iron swingspeed at 78, not his driver.

 

[AzRoger]

21 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

The swingspeed in that chart is driver swingspeed.  I believe Thayneil referenced his friend's iron swingspeed at 78, not his driver.

 

I took the top line of the chart as being the swingspeed and the column below showing the resulting distance you would hit each club shown in the far left column with that swingspeed. As stated above not sure where the numbers come from and may not be accurate.

Edited September 14, 2023 by AzRoger

[NRJyzr]

22 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

The swingspeed in that chart is driver swingspeed.  I believe Thayneil referenced his friend's iron swingspeed at 78, not his driver.

 

 

A 100mph 5 iron will not hit the ball 173 yards, unless you have one hell of a headwind.  🙂

 

[AzRoger]

The chart seems to be from a WRX article based on this golf.com article, it is based on carry distance, not total distance.

Here's how far you should hit all of your clubs, from driver to PW (golf.com)

[NRJyzr]

Highlighted the salient point below

 

[AzRoger]

1 hour ago, NRJyzr said:

Highlighted the salient point below

 

 

It's not complicated, the chart shows driver distance along with the estimated carry distance of all the clubs shown in the left hand column, for each swing speed shown on the top. What would be the point of listing all of the other clubs if it was driver swing speed only?

Edited September 14, 2023 by AzRoger

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, AzRoger said:

 

What would be the point of listing all of the other clubs if it was driver swing speed only?

 

Because people are interested in what kind of distance and distance gaps one should see through the whole set.  

And because swing speed generally scales with playing length, the swing speed for other clubs is somewhat predictable knowing the driver swing speed - and can be implied.

 

Sorry but it's pretty clear from the distances in the chart that it's only driver swing speed that's listed along the top of the chart.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Stuart_G