Preferred lies and penalty/free relief.

[SNIPERBBB]

Just looking for clarification on this topic...

 

Preferred lies are in effect for the round. If a player takes a drop for either free relief or penalty relief should they then be permitted to take preferred lies relief or are they stuck with final location after the drop

Edited September 25, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[sui generis]

I'll go first (always a risky proposition). Relief and preferred lies are completely separate procedures. The first, free relief and penalty relief are well defined in the Rules. The second, preferred lies depends entirely on the words provided to the competitors by the Committee. Unless the Committee prohibits the preferred lies procedure following a relief procedure, though some might not like it, I'd say it's allowed. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by sui generis

[2bGood]

I have never seen a local rule (or the model local) that does not allow you to take your preferred lie after penalty or free relief drop. 

 

I have seen players try to cut out the middle man and skip the drop and follow the preferred lie procedure directly. This is not allowed under the rules as I read them. Drop first and then if you choose to, take your preferred lie. 

 

Given preferred lies is played under a local rule this is not a question that can be answered precisely, only generally. 

[SNIPERBBB]

This is basically the feeling I have as well, but it's always a question guys have at my course

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Just looking for clarification on this topic...

 

Preferred lies are in effect for the round. If a player takes a drop for either free relief or penalty relief should they then be permitted to take preferred lies relief or are they stuck with final location after the drop

Yes they should.  

After a ball has been placed and is in play under this Local Rule, if the player then proceeds under another Rule that provides relief, this Local Rule may be used again.

[MLR-3]

[Augster]

I have always thought of it as, first you play by the Rules, THEN add the local Rules. 
 

[Colin L]

The Rules comprise  the Rules of Golf, Definitions and Local Rules.  [Rule 1.3a]

[Newby]

4 hours ago, Colin L said:

Yes they should.  

After a ball has been placed and is in play under this Local Rule, if the player then proceeds under another Rule that provides relief, this Local Rule may be used again.

[MLR-3]

Once a ball is in play any appropriate Rule is available.

eg IO may be applied before or after LI

[antip]

If the player is in the area qualifying for preferred lies AND another rule (eg GUR), the player may take relief under each rule in any order.

 

Further, the preferred lies local rule was amended from January 2023 - see the words in italics in Colin's post above - this is the new last para in the MLR. The changes clarify that, even if the player takes preferred lies first and then takes relief under another rule that provides relief, the player may then take preferred lies again.

 

However, if the player takes preferred lies relief and then the ball is moved under any Rule 9 issue (that is, moved by natural forces, the player, the opponent or an outside influence), then the player must proceed as Rule 9 requires (play as lies if natural forces caused the movement, replace if the other causes were responsible for the movement) and the player may not access preferred lies again unless some other form of relief is taken first.

 

Any questions? 

[davep043]

53 minutes ago, antip said:

Any questions? 

I can't say it any better.  In simple terms, relief is separate from preferred lies.  As with multiple reasons for relief (say embedded ball under 16.3 and GUR under 16.1) the player can choose which rule to use first, then use another rule if it is still appropriate.

[Newby]

7 hours ago, davep043 said:

then use another rule if it is still appropriate.