Being Liberal With The 3 Mins To Find Ball Rule?

[Denny100]

Hello Everyone

 

Just wanted to ask, how do people feel about a more liberal interpretation of this.

 

I feel the three min rule is brought in for a ball thats likely going to be finding a needle in a haystack in total junk. Doesnt matter if youve got 3 mins or 5, chances are the balls gone.

 

However, SOMETIMES i see situations particularly going into winter where playing partners will hit balls that are absolutely NOT in trouble, but they just plug in the turf, amongst leaves, and they arent found without an extensive search.

 

I mean a guy that might be in the semi rough, terrible lie, amongst debris etc, and the ball isnt instantly found. Search begins, isnt found in 3 mins but its obvious that the ball ISNT lost somewhere, its just no one can see it.

 

Whats everyones thoughts?

[Colin L]

My thought is what's your point?

[Denny100]

9 minutes ago, Colin L said:

My thought is what's your point?

 

My point is, would you declare a ball lost if it wasnt found in the 3 mins, but its obviously not "lost"

[SNIPERBBB]

That's when winter rules come into play.  Around here when it gets to that time of the year, if the group sees where the ball landed and there's no possiblity of it being OB or in a hazard, you can drop in the vicinity of where it should of been without penalty.

 

The search time really isn't the issue here.

[sui generis]

40 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

Whats everyones (sic) thoughts?

 

The "thoughts" of the frequenters of this Rules folder are expressed here:

 

Lost The status of a ball that is not found in three minutes after the player or their caddie (or the player’s partner or partner’s caddie) begins to search for it. A ball does not become lost as a result of the player declaring it to be lost.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=definitions&subrulenum=35

[jlbos83]

I would have to say that if you can't see it, it must be lost, unless you can hit a ball you can't see.  How long should one be allowed to look for one of these not lost, unseen balls?

 

If you have a rule like SNIPERBBB refers to in place (not debating whether it is legal), then you have a way to play in those conditions.  Otherwise, I suppose you buckle up for a lot of lost balls, or in places where you you have off seasons you are playing practice rounds, and can make the rules you need to make it work for you.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by jlbos83

[caniac6]

1 hour ago, Denny100 said:

Hello Everyone

 

Just wanted to ask, how do people feel about a more liberal interpretation of this.

 

I feel the three min rule is brought in for a ball thats likely going to be finding a needle in a haystack in total junk. Doesnt matter if youve got 3 mins or 5, chances are the balls gone.

 

However, SOMETIMES i see situations particularly going into winter where playing partners will hit balls that are absolutely NOT in trouble, but they just plug in the turf, amongst leaves, and they arent found without an extensive search.

 

I mean a guy that might be in the semi rough, terrible lie, amongst debris etc, and the ball isnt instantly found. Search begins, isnt found in 3 mins but its obvious that the ball ISNT lost somewhere, its just no one can see it.

 

Whats everyones thoughts?

How is a ball that can’t be seen not lost? That would seem to be the definition of lost.

[Denny100]

8 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

How is a ball that can’t be seen not lost? That would seem to be the definition of lost.

 

not in a hazard, not in deep rough, its just not visible within the 3 mins

[kiwigolf72]

LOL

[caniac6]

6 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

not in a hazard, not in deep rough, its just not visible within the 3 mins

If you can’t find it, it’s lost.

[kiwigolf72]

I understand what you trying to say but where do we stop. Do we suddenly become a little more liberal with other rules because we feel that they are not fair?

[Denny100]

Just now, kiwigolf72 said:

I understand what you trying to say but where do we stop. Do we suddenly become a little more liberal with other rules because we feel that they are not fair?

 

Think it depends on the rule but i can give examples of some very specific situations where being liberal with the rules would seem fairer in CERTAIN conditions

[kiwigolf72]

3 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

Think it depends on the rule but i can give examples of some very specific situations where being liberal with the rules would seem fairer in CERTAIN conditions

and that's the problem.

[nsxguy]

USGA Model Local Rules

 

F-14 Accumulations of Loose Impediments

Purpose. At certain times of the year, piles of loose impediments such as leaves, seeds or acorns may make it difficult for a player to find or play  his or her ball. A Committee can choose to treat such piles of loose impediments in the general area or in a bunker as ground under repair from which free relief is allowed under Rule 16.1.

This Local Rule may not be used for penalty areas as relief is not available for abnormal course conditions in penalty areas.

The Local Rule should be limited to the hole(s) where problems are created by such loose impediments and should be withdrawn as soon as conditions allow.

Model Local Rule F-14

“During play of the [specify hole number], any ground with temporary accumulations of [identify types of loose impediments ] in the general area or in a bunker is treated as ground under repair from which free relief is allowed under Rule 16.1.

[sui generis]

33 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

Think it depends on the rule but i can give examples of some very specific situations where being liberal with the rules would seem fairer in CERTAIN conditions

 

Oh boy, here we go. Player who claims a + index suggests that the Rules are stupid!

[ShortGolfer]

Bring a battery powered leaf blower to move the leaves.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On another (not golf related) forum someone posted about a HIO. 

 

They had hit a ball and didn't think it went in the hole. Searched all over around the area past the green, couldn't find it. Eventually realized it was in the hole.

 

I told him (not seriously, just to be cheeky), "hope you didn't search more than 3 minutes... If so, it's a lost ball, not a hole in one, go back to the tee and you're hitting 3." 

 

But either way, if you think there's *any* chance your ball might be in the hole, better check it before 3 minutes have elapsed 😉 

 

[Denny100]

17 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Oh boy, here we go. Player who claims a + index suggests that the Rules are stupid!

 

Nothing like a good golfwrx sweeping generalisation. I did not, and have never said the rules are quote "stupid"

[antip]

Yet another thread that can be sub-titled "who likes to routinely cheat at golf? after all, some other folk do!"

[Denny100]

2 minutes ago, antip said:

Yet another thread that can be sub-titled "who likes to routinely cheat at golf? after all, some other folk do!"

 

And another one. "Routinely cheat at golf". Is there any more of this? 

[sui generis]

2 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

And another one. "Routinely cheat at golf". Is there any more of this? 

 

You've brought this on yourself. The Rules are the Rules; just play by them.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Denny100 said:

 

not in a hazard, not in deep rough, its just not visible within the 3 mins

Hmm, there a word for this….what is it?

 

I simply cannot find my car keys…anywhere.  What’s that word for what cannot be found?

 

 

You posted in the rules forum. You might get a gentler, albeit incorrect, response in the General forum.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Shilgy

[antip]

And if I actually hit an excellent shot, then I really never should have to consider the ball lost - surely the game should only be about the excellence of the play. Surely that would be much fairer?

 

[rooski]

32 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

On another (not golf related) forum someone posted about a HIO. 

 

They had hit a ball and didn't think it went in the hole. Searched all over around the area past the green, couldn't find it. Eventually realized it was in the hole.

 

I told him (not seriously, just to be cheeky), "hope you didn't search more than 3 minutes... If so, it's a lost ball, not a hole in one, go back to the tee and you're hitting 3." 

 

But either way, if you think there's *any* chance your ball might be in the hole, better check it before 3 minutes have elapsed 😉 

 

 

I'm quite sure this one is an exception. When the ball is holed, the hole is over, no matter how long you look for it or even if you go back and hit another from the tee.

 

I'm not going to go look it up so I probably shouldn't be posting on the rules subforum but I'm nearly positive I'm correct.

[ThinkingPlus]

You lost me at being liberal...

[Augster]

15 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

I'm quite sure this one is an exception. When the ball is holed, the hole is over, no matter how long you look for it or even if you go back and hit another from the tee.

 

I'm not going to go look it up so I probably shouldn't be posting on the rules subforum but I'm nearly positive I'm correct.

He knows the Rule. You just have missed this:

 

“I told him (not seriously, just to be cheeky),”

 

You are correct that a holed ball can’t be lost. The hole had ended. 
 

To the OP, either play with the quoted MLR, the “leaf Rule” MLR, or take a lost ball after 3 minutes. 
 

SO much ego. Hubris. Does it really matter if you shoot 91 or 93? Just take the lost ball and move on. It’s 2 strokes in a season of hundreds of strokes, in a lifetime of thousands of strokes. Completely insignificant. 

BTW, I think all of my errant shots “should” be found. Many, many, MANY simply aren’t because of the time limit. 
 

 

[rooski]

15 minutes ago, Augster said:

He knows the Rule. You just have missed this:

 

“I told him (not seriously, just to be cheeky),”

 

Pretty sure that's not the case given the last sentence in the post

 

Quote

But either way, if you think there's *any* chance your ball might be in the hole, better check it before 3 minutes have elapsed 😉

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by rooski

[betarhoalphadelta]

43 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

I'm quite sure this one is an exception. When the ball is holed, the hole is over, no matter how long you look for it or even if you go back and hit another from the tee.

 

I'm not going to go look it up so I probably shouldn't be posting on the rules subforum but I'm nearly positive I'm correct.

 

19 minutes ago, Augster said:

He knows the Rule. You just have missed this:

 

“I told him (not seriously, just to be cheeky),”

 

You are correct that a holed ball can’t be lost. The hole had ended. 
 

 

Ok, I was being serious. I thought a ball not found within three minutes was lost. If it wasn't found within three minutes, it was not "holed", it was lost. The ball is abandoned regardless of whether it's in the hole or not. 

 

As is often with rules questions, I'm wrong. Is this an actual exception to the lost ball rule? 

[jlbos83]

4 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

Ok, I was being serious. I thought a ball not found within three minutes was lost. If it wasn't found within three minutes, it was not "holed", it was lost. The ball is abandoned regardless of whether it's in the hole or not. 

 

As is often with rules questions, I'm wrong. Is this an actual exception to the lost ball rule? 

Rule 6.5.

[Augster]

4 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

Ok, I was being serious. I thought a ball not found within three minutes was lost. If it wasn't found within three minutes, it was not "holed", it was lost. The ball is abandoned regardless of whether it's in the hole or not. 

 

As is often with rules questions, I'm wrong. Is this an actual exception to the lost ball rule? 

What? 
 

Why the “not serious, just being cheeky” and the winking emoji at the end of your statement? 
 

Of course a holed ball can’t be lost. It’s holed. The hole is over. Even if you go back and take stroke and distance and play out with the new ball, when you get to the hole and find your holed ball, that holed ball is your scoring ball on that hole. 
 

Rule 6.5 Completing Play of a Hole

 

A player has completed a hole:
    •    In match play, when:
    »    The player holes out or the player’s next stroke is conceded, or
    »    The result of the hole is decided (such as when the opponent concedes the hole, the opponent’s score for the hole is lower than the player possibly could make or the player or opponent gets the general penalty (loss of hole)).
    •    In stroke play, when the player holes out under Rule 3.3c.
If a player does not know that they have completed a hole and attempts to continue play of the hole, the player’s further play is not considered to be practice nor do they get a penalty for playing another ball, including a wrong ball.