Being Liberal With The 3 Mins To Find Ball Rule?

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I can't wait to see the look on the faces of the golfers I interrupt at the Tee Box.... The OP raises an interesting question and point. What to do about the incredibly (and inexplicably) rigid rule for a lost ball that may not even be any deeper than 1" below the mid-rough (has happened).

"Excuse me, sirs, I shanked my drive and couldn't find it. Per the ROG I must replay stroke and distance. Thank you for your patience."

If they're WRXers, a thread pops up later in the General Forum about some rube that followed the rules! The mighty men called the Pro Shop to complain at this unacceptable breach of Pace of Play! (In spite of the die hard rule follower doing all in his power to follow the rules)

There few rules in golf that are as disconnected from reality of no Professional Tour golfers as the stroke and distance penalty. Professional golfers can do this because they're speshul. Common rubes? That round would have to be DQed from any index calculation because of one ball in 3" rough that couldn't be found in spite of the glint of the ball clearly seen from the tee box. Depth perception at those distances can be tricky.

So, in the spirit of pace of play......let's say the next time, this golfer decides "I'll just take a 2 Stroke penalty" and posts about it on here.

Immediately, the rules police show up sirens blaring. "Alert! Vanity Cap! Alert! Cheater."

You just can't win with stupid rules like this that make no mention on a sunny summer day of anything other than stroke or distance. To the OP, assuming golfers are in play behind you, go back to the tee box (assuming you are walking) and take your time re-teeing just in case they're WRXers. Let them take pictures and video of you so they can shame you for doing the right thing. 

Because that's the only thing that's right in the world today. You're either a cheater! Or you're f****** up everybody elses day by making them wait 5 more minutes. Oh the humanity! GOLFERS WERE PILING UP!!! All 6 of them! AARRGGHHH!!!

</End Rant>

LOL!!!! Sorry.... I couldn't resist, but this rule is incompatible with course expectations. The last time this happened, I took two strokes and dropped behind the projected spot in the rough. But I'm not posting for a GHIN number. If I were, I suppose one round wouldn't matter..... but it's still stupid. Unless I'm missing something, but when there are no obvious impediments that rule doesn't apply.

I could just declare a squirrel got it! I swear! I saw it! Squirrels are Jerks! Everybody would believe me!

Ok.... I've gone to far again..... Mostly, I kid.... so take it with a grain of salt. But it really is a stupid rule considering pace of play expectations.... Sorry, I'll see myself out. 😄 😄

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mikey_HACKilroy

[Colin L]

I can't find my ball.

I've looked for 3 minutes.

It's lost.

It's just as well I played a provisional ball.

 

Nothing more to be said.

 

 

 

[sui generis]

12 minutes ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

Ok.... I've gone to far again..... Mostly, I kid.... so take it with a grain of salt. But it really is a stupid rule considering pace of play expectations.... Sorry, I'll see myself out. 😄 😄

 

Oh, good, another innocent ventures into the Rules folder with their fly unzipped. May we point you to Model Local Rule E-5?

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=5

[sui generis]

1 minute ago, Colin L said:

Nothing more to be said.

 

Or, here in the colonies, we have E-5. 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

10 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Oh, good, another innocent ventures into the Rules folder with their fly unzipped. May we point you to Model Local Rule E-5?

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=5

Whilst admiring the image of my apparently unzipped fly, you missed the point about posting for a handicap, which in most cases would likely mean this round would be omitted. On the face, who gives a flark.

Will it ever apply to most golfers? Nahhhhhh..... But I was approaching it from the standpoint of wanting to post rounds for a WHI which gets dicey if you follow the modification. Basically, I was playing an angle.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mikey_HACKilroy

[sui generis]

3 minutes ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

Whilst admiring the image of my apparently unzipped fly, you missed the point about posting for a handicap, which in most cases would likely mean this round would be omitted. On the face, who gives a flark.

Will it ever apply to most golfers? Nahhhhhh..... But I was approaching it from the standpoint of wanting to post rounds for a WHI which gets dicey if you follow the modification. Basically, I was playing an angle.

 

E-5 works just fine out here in the sticks in Asheville. Do you suggest that cosmopolitan Charlotte can't embrace it? 😉

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Just now, sui generis said:

 

E-5 works just fine out here in the sticks in Asheville. Do you suggest that cosmopolitan Charlotte can't embrace it? 😉

 

Honestly, they probably have....... But I was more focused on being a smart a** if I must be completely honest... LOL

It's late, and I had nothing better to do... I don't know what sets me off sometimes.... LOL

But Charlotte? Cosmopolitan? Now that I look at actual demographics, I guess it would qualify.... Anything that makes us seem "trendy." I mean, at least the food scene is improving..... except for the place that tried to pass cucumber off as papaya......... That was not an improvement..... But Cosmopolitan? I guess... 😄 😄

 

[2bGood]

5 hours ago, Denny100 said:

 

My point is, would you declare a ball lost if it wasnt found in the 3 mins, but its obviously not "lost"

 

4 hours ago, Denny100 said:

 

Think it depends on the rule but i can give examples of some very specific situations where being liberal with the rules would seem fairer in CERTAIN conditions

 

The rules live in two worlds for me.

 

Stroke Play - everything is black and white. You really can't have any interpretation or room for fellows player to decide on rulings etc. The issue is of course, is what one group decides might be very different from another. You end up introducing the opportunity for two players to have very different outcomes from the exact same situation.  

 

Match Play - the rules already allow for certain liberties to be taken in this format (there are still limits). In match play I do believe much of what you would like to see, is already enshrined in the rules, but left up to your opponent. It makes sense to allow these liberties in Match Play as there are no other players to worry about. 

[sui generis]

12 minutes ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

Cosmopolitan? I guess... 😄 😄

 

Hey, you have NoDa! 🙂

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You lost me at being liberal...

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by nsxguy

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

Whilst admiring the image of my apparently unzipped fly, you missed the point about posting for a handicap, which in most cases would likely mean this round would be omitted. On the face, who gives a flark.

Will it ever apply to most golfers? Nahhhhhh..... But I was approaching it from the standpoint of wanting to post rounds for a WHI which gets dicey if you follow the modification. Basically, I was playing an angle.

 

Another angle you know nothing about ?

 

Nope. You missed the point. In NO case would this particular event negate your responsibility to post the round.

 

Your maximum score for ANY hole for handicap purposes is net double bogey (process formerly known as "equitable stroke control").

 

Once you lose a ball, or hit one OB, you are very likely to exceed NDB so you're likely posting a double for that hole anyway; even if you end up making 10.

 

If you don't exceed NDB, congrats. Nice recovery. Post the number you actually made. 👍

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

Ok, I was being serious. I thought a ball not found within three minutes was lost. If it wasn't found within three minutes, it was not "holed", it was lost. The ball is abandoned regardless of whether it's in the hole or not. 

 

As is often with rules questions, I'm wrong. Is this an actual exception to the lost ball rule? 

 

Want anudder fly in the "ointment" ?

 

I take no "credit" for this. I read it a while ago, probably here.

 

When does a ball in the hole NOT conclude the hole ?

 

Par 3 (for ease of explanation). Player A hits towards the green. Ball goes way left into the weeds. Knowing he's got little chance of even finding it, player A hits a provisional,,,,,,,,,,, and it goes IN.

 

Player A's thrilled at salvaging a 3 ? Hmmmmm,,,,,,,,,

 

Another player in the group saw roughly where the ball went and goes toward the weeds. He spots the ball and calls out to Player A "You playing a Cally 4 with 3 red dots ?" Player A "Yup".

 

"Here's your ball".

 

If Player A has already pulled his ball out of the hole before his ball is found, he's made a 3. If not he must abandon the provisional and continue with the original.

 

 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

7 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Another angle you know nothing about ?

 

Nope. You missed the point. In NO case would this particular event negate your responsibility to post the round.

 

Your maximum score for ANY hole for handicap purposes is net double bogey (process formerly known as "equitable stroke control").

 

Once you lose a ball, or hit one OB, you are very likely to exceed NDB so you're likely posting a double for that hole anyway; even if you end up making 10.

 

If you don't exceed NDB, congrats. Nice recovery. Post the number you actually made. 👍

 

I wouldn't say I know nothing. I know less than I'd like to, but more than nothing. 🙂

 

But you don't have to be so mean. 😭

 

But seriously, touche. LOL I yield. 😄

[betarhoalphadelta]

12 hours ago, Augster said:

What? 
 

Why the “not serious, just being cheeky” and the winking emoji at the end of your statement? 
 

Of course a holed ball can’t be lost. It’s holed. The hole is over. Even if you go back and take stroke and distance and play out with the new ball, when you get to the hole and find your holed ball, that holed ball is your scoring ball on that hole. 
 

Rule 6.5 Completing Play of a Hole

 

 

When I said I wasn't being serious, I meant I was just busting his balls. I.e. I certainly wouldn't take away someone's HIO based on a lost ball rule. 

 

But I appreciate the clarification. I didn't know that holing out--even if a player doesn't know they've done it, and proceeds as if the ball is lost, was an exception. 

[Newby]

10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

If Player A has already pulled his ball out of the hole before his ball is found, he's made a 3. If not he must abandon the provisional and continue with the original.

 

 

Have you got the reference for that?

[rogolf]

32 minutes ago, Newby said:

Have you got the reference for that?

18.3c(2)/3

[Newby]

15 minutes ago, rogolf said:

18.3c(2)/3

Thanks. I knew it but couldn't find it.