Tried new irons didn't go well. Shaft issue or club issue?

[loki993]

I currently play ping raptures with light, 75g iirc, graphite fubuki shafts. I played eye2 with KT-Ms shafts before that. Never really had an issue get them in the air if I didn't top the ball. 

 

I wanted to try some irons will less to very little offset to see the difference but something still forgiving. I like the look at address of the better players clubs more. 

 

I went to Carl's and tried a hot metal pro and a srixon zx5s MK2. Wanted the try them with steel too. The Srixons had kbs tour lites, the Mizunos dg105s I believe. 

 

I hit them like trash. Even on what I felt like was a decent hit the ball wasn't going anywhere and the ball flight was terrible. Very low, almost worm burner low. 

 

I was surprised because I had read so much about how forgiving these clubs were. I knew they wouldn't be as forgiving as my GI pings but I was expecting more than what I got. 

 

So what's happening here. Is this an issue that could be rectified with a different shaft or is it really that they are too much club for me? My swing speed isn't high but it's not abnormally low either. I'd say 85-90 mph on a driver. 

 

Tl;Dr terrible low ball flight with players distance irons. Is the problem the shaft or is it I'm not ready for them yet. 

[blades_are_life]

Yeah you're used to using 75g graphite shafts and you demoed clubs with 105g iron shafts instead.

[bobfoster]

18 minutes ago, blades_are_life said:

Yeah you're used to using 75g graphite shafts and you demoed clubs with 105g iron shafts instead.

My first thought too. I'm continually fiddling with irons and shafts, but always incrementally. And even then, takes me a bit of time at the range and a few rounds to make the micro-adjustments of the swing required to maximize the benefits of the new clubs. What this guy did was not a slight change. Both the shaft and clubheads are dramatically different. 

 

Just IMO - don't fool around with significant changes to multiple variables at once - or you won't even be able to figure out what's going on. Going from 75g graphite to 105steel is a gigantic change. changing clubhead offset at the same time just amplifies magnitude of the change. If you had a relatively consistent swing with your old kit, I'd be amazed if your distances and dispersion weren't all over the map (at first) with that drastic of a change. 

 

Is there a reason you wanted to shake your game up like that?

[loki993]

The light shaft thing is recent, Ive just had them this season, I always felt like the eye2s were a bit heavy and I wanted to try graphite so that's what I ended up with. I wasn't really seeking out a super light shaft. 

 

As for why I tried to make such a big change, I didn't know any better I guess, didn't think it would make that big of a difference, ie me hitting terrible worm burning shots,  and before the raptures I had played normal weighted steel in the eye2s and was ok. I wasn't sure I liked how the graphite shafts felt after using them for a bit and I thought maybe they were a a tad TOO light and I went too far the other way, I still kind of feel that they are too light honestly. So I wanted to see if I could go back to steel, it obviously didn't work. 

 

I mean I do feel a bit better that it seems like something that can be rectified with different shafts, I has though that may have ben to problem but I needed to be sure, but it also concerns me a bit that I seem to have gotten used to a very light shaft, but I don't really know why. It is what it is. 

[ShortGolfer]

I knew exactly what I wanted from my irons when I did my fitting.  To be able to hit and hold small greens with my irons.  Which the fitter was able to do, as I normally hit high fades.

A little more distance than the stock Mavrik Max irons I was using, but being able to hit a green and have it stop there was huge.

 

I don't think anyone cares what clubs you play.  But folks notice when you flush an iron off the fairway.

Edited September 29, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[Mike_Honcho]

13 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

...flush an iron off the fairway, folks notice.

 

this is very true.

[Socrates]

Going from offset to non-offset is usually a disaster waiting to happen.  I've tried on occasion to hit something with less off-set and it's not going to happen.  Maybe if I spent a few months hitting them, I would get used to it?  For me the shaft is less critical.

[Ajota]

19 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Going from offset to non-offset is usually a disaster waiting to happen.  I've tried on occasion to hit something with less off-set and it's not going to happen.  Maybe if I spent a few months hitting them, I would get used to it?  For me the shaft is less critical.

 Came here to say this. 

[gvogel]

8 hours ago, loki993 said:

I currently play ping raptures with light, 75g iirc, graphite fubuki shafts. I played eye2 with KT-Ms shafts before that. Never really had an issue get them in the air if I didn't top the ball. 

 

I wanted to try some irons will less to very little offset to see the difference but something still forgiving. I like the look at address of the better players clubs more. 

 

I went to Carl's and tried a hot metal pro and a srixon zx5s MK2. Wanted the try them with steel too. The Srixons had kbs tour lites, the Mizunos dg105s I believe. 

 

I hit them like trash. Even on what I felt like was a decent hit the ball wasn't going anywhere and the ball flight was terrible. Very low, almost worm burner low. 

 

I was surprised because I had read so much about how forgiving these clubs were. I knew they wouldn't be as forgiving as my GI pings but I was expecting more than what I got. 

 

So what's happening here. Is this an issue that could be rectified with a different shaft or is it really that they are too much club for me? My swing speed isn't high but it's not abnormally low either. I'd say 85-90 mph on a driver. 

 

Tl;Dr terrible low ball flight with players distance irons. Is the problem the shaft or is it I'm not ready for them yet. 

See if you can try the Srixon ZX 5 with a lighter weight Nippon shaft - like the 950 NEO or 850 NEO.  You will find that shaft to help get the ball in the air.

[caniac6]

32 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Going from offset to non-offset is usually a disaster waiting to happen.  I've tried on occasion to hit something with less off-set and it's not going to happen.  Maybe if I spent a few months hitting them, I would get used to it?  For me the shaft is less critical.

Bought Eye 2s in 1986. Anything with small, or no offset, looks bad ever since. Don’t know if it’s just a visual thing, but I’m so used to offset, I won’t consider anything else.

[Jeff58]

You’re likely hitting irons like trash on the Carl’s simulator because you’re hitting irons on the Carl’s simulator.

 

Either bring your current irons with you to Carl’s or take some demo clubs outdoors.

[AdamMH]

Do you top balls fairly often? Part of me wonders if you might be struggling with a secret low strike. The really low CG on your Rapture irons would help make up for that, whereas a more player oriented iron might not. Just a thought.

[RoyalMustang]

Yikes: that's a big change in shaft weight; I always feel like the first 5 swings either take you in a better or worse direction. 

 

I recently went from DG120x to S400 and a player's iron to a blade on my 8-PW: that's roughly a 12g increase and slight change in profile. The difference was immediately apparent in a good way: a touch slower, more relaxed tempo and better release through the ball on average. My misses (thin) have been much more playable. 

 

Unlike other posters, the change was "for the better" immediately. My first 8 or so rounds with these I've seen better consistency in terms of distance and dispersion. More GIR and more under 20 feet makeable birdies/easy pars. 

 

Maybe do a general fitting where you try a bunch of shaft options first, then once you have that, tighten up the shaft options to 2 or 3 and then go back and look at iron heads. 

[loki993]

2 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

You’re likely hitting irons like trash on the Carl’s simulator because you’re hitting irons on the Carl’s simulator.

 

Either bring your current irons with you to Carl’s or take some demo clubs outdoors.

 

I did that, I was hitting them at the outdoor range. I compared them to my current Pings and the pings went higher and farther...a lot farther, like 20 yards. That part was a little unexpected because the lofts on the newer clubs are a good bit stronger so I was expecting the distance to at least be similar. 

 

 

1 hour ago, AdamMH said:

Do you top balls fairly often? Part of me wonders if you might be struggling with a secret low strike. The really low CG on your Rapture irons would help make up for that, whereas a more player oriented iron might not. Just a thought.

 

 

I do and my miss is a thin or top mostly, I'm working on it and have gotten better, but yes I still miss thin at times. The thing is the clubs I was using also supposedly have low centers of gravity so I thought it would be ok. I mean I wasn't trying to hit blades, just basically the next step up to a mid handicap iron from a high handcap iron. They should still be fairly forgiving and helpful on hots like that, if any of the video and internet reviews are to be believed. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by loki993

[AdamMH]

3 minutes ago, loki993 said:

 

I do and my miss is a thin or top mostly, I'm working on it and have gotten better, but yes I still miss thin at times. The thing is the clubs I was using also supposedly have low centers of gravity so I thought it would be ok. 

I went and looked at Maltby's measurements for the clubs - the ZX5s have a similar VCOG to the Pings, but the Mizunos are noticeably higher.

[bobfoster]

3 hours ago, Socrates said:

Going from offset to non-offset is usually a disaster waiting to happen.  I've tried on occasion to hit something with less off-set and it's not going to happen.  Maybe if I spent a few months hitting them, I would get used to it?  For me the shaft is less critical.

In truth however, isn't it what you've tuned your swing to? I've usually played clubs without a lot of offset (I just feel like I have more control over ball flight for some reason). Occasionally when traveling I use borrowed or rented clubs that generally have some (or a lot) more offset. While it is rarely a complete disaster, trajectory and dispersion are definitely sub-optimal. Would likely take at least several rounds, and some  slight adjustments to my swing before I felt really comfortable with such clubs in my hand. 

 

I think it's what you are used to. But I do agree that offset is a not insignificant factor in club choices.

[Pepperturbo]

11 hours ago, loki993 said:

I currently play ping raptures with light, 75g iirc, graphite fubuki shafts. I played eye2 with KT-Ms shafts before that. Never really had an issue get them in the air if I didn't top the ball. 

 

I wanted to try some irons will less to very little offset to see the difference but something still forgiving. I like the look at address of the better players clubs more. 

 

I went to Carl's and tried a hot metal pro and a srixon zx5s MK2. Wanted the try them with steel too. The Srixons had kbs tour lites, the Mizunos dg105s I believe. 

 

I hit them like trash. Even on what I felt like was a decent hit the ball wasn't going anywhere and the ball flight was terrible. Very low, almost worm burner low. 

 

I was surprised because I had read so much about how forgiving these clubs were. I knew they wouldn't be as forgiving as my GI pings but I was expecting more than what I got. 

 

So what's happening here. Is this an issue that could be rectified with a different shaft or is it really that they are too much club for me? My swing speed isn't high but it's not abnormally low either. I'd say 85-90 mph on a driver. 

 

Tl;Dr terrible low ball flight with players distance irons. Is the problem the shaft or is it I'm not ready for them yet. 

If you've been successful with Rapture's and 75g shafts, it could be the shafts you tested.  Fubuki profile is IMO different from other comparable shafts.  Also, big jump from 75g to 100+/- shafts, not to mention different bend profiles and club heads.  The other possibility; you're so used to your current irons, you have trouble adjusting to new irons.  I know with me, it takes time for me to adapt to new equipment.  Bought my current irons in August, still not comfortable with them.

 

I never test irons at an LGS, mostly because I am not comfortable at the LGS on their LM, hitting unfamiliar clubs.  Plus, I am fussy about how clubs feel, nearly always have to have clubs reconfigured to some extent.  As well, there's reason not to trust my LGS's LM's; they are costly to maintain, and keep calibrated. 

 

Sometime ago, I decided to buy without testing.  Didn't test MMT 85s or 95s shafts before buying, nor Ventus shafts before buying, and that's worked out fine.  Be patient at the quest, you'll work it out.

[TyNiles]

30 grams is significant when it comes to iron shafts - which could be throwing your timing off in addition to other things. 
Any reason you keyed in on the ZX5/HMP versus just seeing what’s the best fit for you? No hate for either model, I just think that people back themselves into a corner when they go into a fit with something “specific” in mind. I’ve played Miura blades w/X100’s my entire playing career, and when I got fit 2 months ago - I promised myself that I’d go with what I hit the best. Ended up being P790’s w/ Project X - which is a combo I’d NEVER have even remotely considered. 
Also, has others have said - see if you can get an outdoor fitting on grass. I’ll never buy a set of irons again until I can feel the turf interaction and see the ball flight outside. 

[jholz]

You've got to give new clubs a bit of time. Every new set will have a learning curve.  

 

Based upon your description of the clubs you tried - it's tough to find anything wrong with them. Quality heads and shafts. 

 

So yeah, if you stick with 'em, you might find that you possess the ability to hit them well.  

[Pepperturbo]

@Socrates I understand how offset can be troubling.  I am the opposite to you, minimal offset. 

 

I can adapt to most club head specs, except too much offset hurts my ball striking.  Back in 2005, I purchased a beautiful new set of 735cm irons.  Turned out the CB long irons rightfully had a lot more offset, than short iron blades.  I had the clubs for nearly a year, but couldn't adjust, drove me bonkers, so I sold them.   

[mgoblue83]

Have you compared the lofts?

 

At your swing speed you are going to need more loft and a wider sole to keep the ball in the air. 

[blades_are_life]

12 hours ago, bobfoster said:

My first thought too. I'm continually fiddling with irons and shafts, but always incrementally. And even then, takes me a bit of time at the range and a few rounds to make the micro-adjustments of the swing required to maximize the benefits of the new clubs. What this guy did was not a slight change. Both the shaft and clubheads are dramatically different. 

 

Just IMO - don't fool around with significant changes to multiple variables at once - or you won't even be able to figure out what's going on. Going from 75g graphite to 105steel is a gigantic change. changing clubhead offset at the same time just amplifies magnitude of the change. If you had a relatively consistent swing with your old kit, I'd be amazed if your distances and dispersion weren't all over the map (at first) with that drastic of a change. 

 

Is there a reason you wanted to shake your game up like that?

lol idk why I called them "iron" shafts rather than "steel" shafts but thank you for not pointing that out directly

[loki993]

1 hour ago, TyNiles said:

Any reason you keyed in on the ZX5/HMP versus just seeing what’s the best fit for you? No hate for either model, I just think that people back themselves into a corner when they go into a fit with something “specific” in mind. 

 

Partially good reviews on both, partially because I like the clubs but also I had full intentions of trying other models like the P790, t200 etc. They just happened to be the first ones I got to try. Plus the custom options and price on the Mizzys just seems superior to just about anything else. They have many different shaft and grip options that the other brands change for. 

 

55 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Have you compared the lofts?

 

At your swing speed you are going to need more loft and a wider sole to keep the ball in the air. 

 

The lofts on the new clubs are for sure stronger but I was using 7 irons and I wouldn't expect the flight to be that bad just based on that but maybe the lower loft coupled with less offset and smaller head could have something to do with it. Plus based on the distance I was hitting I was also probably losing tons of clubhead speed with the heavier shafts. 

[Soccerrick10]

19 hours ago, loki993 said:

I currently play ping raptures with light, 75g iirc, graphite fubuki shafts. I played eye2 with KT-Ms shafts before that. Never really had an issue get them in the air if I didn't top the ball. 

 

I wanted to try some irons will less to very little offset to see the difference but something still forgiving. I like the look at address of the better players clubs more. 

 

I went to Carl's and tried a hot metal pro and a srixon zx5s MK2. Wanted the try them with steel too. The Srixons had kbs tour lites, the Mizunos dg105s I believe. 

 

I hit them like trash. Even on what I felt like was a decent hit the ball wasn't going anywhere and the ball flight was terrible. Very low, almost worm burner low. 

 

I was surprised because I had read so much about how forgiving these clubs were. I knew they wouldn't be as forgiving as my GI pings but I was expecting more than what I got. 

 

So what's happening here. Is this an issue that could be rectified with a different shaft or is it really that they are too much club for me? My swing speed isn't high but it's not abnormally low either. I'd say 85-90 mph on a driver. 

 

Tl;Dr terrible low ball flight with players distance irons. Is the problem the shaft or is it I'm not ready for them yet. 

Your current iron is in the very high, Super Game Improvement category (MPF = 914) with a 6i loft of 30*.     See here:

https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_PING.pdf
 

The irons you tested are 

ZX5:  MPF = 560 Game Improvement with a 6 iron loft of 27*  See here:

https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_SRIXON.pdf

 

HMP 223:  MPF = 696 Game Improvement with 6 iron loft of 24* See here:

https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf
 

That is a HUGE difference in just the forgiveness, let alone type of club and loft compared to what you are accustomed.  Just in loft alone, it would be like hitting your 5i and 4i compared to your 6i.  In looking at forgiveness, yes, in their category, they are “forgiving”.  But, compared to your current clubs, they are at least 1-2 categories harder to hit than what you are now playing.

 

Then, when you factor in the huge differences in shafts, I’m not surprised at all in the difficulties you experienced.  If you are still willing to put in the effort, searching for new sticks can be very rewarding.  The advice from others is good.  I’d go back and try the ZX5 in a lighter weight graphite shaft.  If you can hit that head well, then try a lighter weight steel shaft.  The 850 / 950 Neo were good suggestions.  They are designed to help hollow body, stronger lofted players distance irons get more height.

 

Since Carl’s has full sets for testing, I’d hit a comparable loft to what you are hitting so at least that is one less variable to factor into the equation.  So, to answer your question, they MAY be too much club for where your game is now.  But, with all the variances from what your body is used to hitting, you won’t know until those are minimized.

 

I hope that helps.  The most important thing is to not get discouraged.  There are a lot of really good clubs out there for all levels of play.

 

 

[loki993]

9 hours ago, Soccerrick10 said:

Your current iron is in the very high, Super Game Improvement category (MPF = 914) with a 6i loft of 30*.     See here:

https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_PING.pdf
 

The irons you tested are 

ZX5:  MPF = 560 Game Improvement with a 6 iron loft of 27*  See here:

https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_SRIXON.pdf

 

HMP 223:  MPF = 696 Game Improvement with 6 iron loft of 24* See here:

https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf
 

That is a HUGE difference in just the forgiveness, let alone type of club and loft compared to what you are accustomed.  Just in loft alone, it would be like hitting your 5i and 4i compared to your 6i.  In looking at forgiveness, yes, in their category, they are “forgiving”.  But, compared to your current clubs, they are at least 1-2 categories harder to hit than what you are now playing.

 

Then, when you factor in the huge differences in shafts, I’m not surprised at all in the difficulties you experienced.  If you are still willing to put in the effort, searching for new sticks can be very rewarding.  The advice from others is good.  I’d go back and try the ZX5 in a lighter weight graphite shaft.  If you can hit that head well, then try a lighter weight steel shaft.  The 850 / 950 Neo were good suggestions.  They are designed to help hollow body, stronger lofted players distance irons get more height.

 

Since Carl’s has full sets for testing, I’d hit a comparable loft to what you are hitting so at least that is one less variable to factor into the equation.  So, to answer your question, they MAY be too much club for where your game is now.  But, with all the variances from what your body is used to hitting, you won’t know until those are minimized.

 

I hope that helps.  The most important thing is to not get discouraged.  There are a lot of really good clubs out there for all levels of play.

 

 

 

 

Damn, I thought I had looked them up. I remember them being high but not that high. So, I have a near 20 year old set of clubs I got cheap that are as if not more forgiving than anything out there and they don't look completely like shovels. Sounds like I kinda won. 

 

I'm not discouraged I was just trying stuff out. I basically left thinking ok those are for me right now and probably saved myself a thousand bucks or so. 

 

This thread was just sort of trying to figure out what was happening because I had never really experienced that before and I'd I'm looking at used clubs I need to have an idea of what could work and what definitely won't. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by loki993

[ShortGolfer]

At the end of the season you can find cheap demo clubs to buy.  You could learn to use the clubs you want to play by constantly practicing with one club.

I've been practicing with a MD5 gap wedge every day the weather has been cooperative this season; it was easy to figure out how to use a Vokey as a lob wedge. 

As well as learning when the Vokey wasn't any better than the other clubs in my bag.

[gvogel]

18 hours ago, loki993 said:

 

Partially good reviews on both, partially because I like the clubs but also I had full intentions of trying other models like the P790, t200 etc. They just happened to be the first ones I got to try. Plus the custom options and price on the Mizzys just seems superior to just about anything else. They have many different shaft and grip options that the other brands change for. 

 

 

The lofts on the new clubs are for sure stronger but I was using 7 irons and I wouldn't expect the flight to be that bad just based on that but maybe the lower loft coupled with less offset and smaller head could have something to do with it. Plus based on the distance I was hitting I was also probably losing tons of clubhead speed with the heavier shafts. 

My suggestion would be to look at Titleist T350 with Nippon 950 NEO shafts.

 

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with Ping Rapture irons.  After my elbow surgery, that was the first 7-iron that I hit, as I had bought some for my girlfriend some time ago.  She plays a Ping 7-hybrid and T100 9-iron now (go figure!).

[gvogel]

59 minutes ago, loki993 said:

 

 

Damn, I thought I had looked them up. I remember them being high but not that high. So, I have a near 20 year old set of clubs I got cheap that are as if not more forgiving than anything out there and they don't look completely like shovels. Sounds like I kinda won. 

 

I'm not discouraged I was just trying stuff out. I basically left thinking ok those are for me right now and probably saved myself a thousand bucks or so. 

 

This thread was just sort of trying to figure out what was happening because I had never really experienced that before and I'd I'm looking at used clubs I need to have an idea of what could work and what definitely won't. 

Titleist T300 MPF is 877.  Just sayin'.

[Soccerrick10]

1 hour ago, loki993 said:

 

 

Damn, I thought I had looked them up. I remember them being high but not that high. So, I have a near 20 year old set of clubs I got cheap that are as if not more forgiving than anything out there and they don't look completely like shovels. Sounds like I kinda won. 

 

I'm not discouraged I was just trying stuff out. I basically left thinking ok those are for me right now and probably saved myself a thousand bucks or so. 

 

This thread was just sort of trying to figure out what was happening because I had never really experienced that before and I'd I'm looking at used clubs I need to have an idea of what could work and what definitely won't. 

You might want to consider some of the new Maltby heads.  With their custom build shop open now, you can get them configured exactly as needed.  I have a TS3 8 iron I built up with a Nippon NS Pro 950 Neo in regular flex you are welcome to try.  I built it to test that new head and shaft combo - really nice.  I’m only 10 minutes from Carl’s, so just a thought.  They sure wouldn’t cost you $1000 if you liked them.

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Soccerrick10

[loki993]

18 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Titleist T300 MPF is 877.  Just sayin'.

 

So not to throw a monkey wrench in all of this but I actually have a set of those and I don't like them, actually been trying to sell them. I got them and then raptures at the same time.

 

So backstory time I guess to explain. I got the raptures from Japan because they were supposed to be the j models with less offset, well they weren't. The seller knocked 40 bucks off of them because of it, so I ended up paying like 200 bucks for them. I liked the shafts, they're in really good shape and I hit them well so I didn't mind. 

 

The t300s popped up here and seemed like a deal and the pings hadn't arrived yet so I got them too to try. Figured I could just sell the ones I liked less. 

 

I liked the pings better and they were cheaper so I decided to try to sell the t300s but I haven't had any luck moving them .

 

I don't like the way the t300s feel or sound. They're also 2 degrees flat so I don't know if that could be a reason I don't hit them well or not. Maybe I should have them bent back and see?