Ryder Cup Broken... here's the fix

[Rob G 89]

It was just a bad year for golf Ryder cup not competitive. Very to little drama/competitiveness in the majors. Things will change 

[byoung14]

Wanting to change a format because your preferred side takes an L is some real loser stuff.

[me05501]

The only thing wrong with the Ryder Cup is that is has been dramatically over-monetized.

 

Too many sponsors, too much merch, too many fans on site, too much on-course infrastructure and too much manufactured drama, all because the money is available to get and the organizers are like hogs at the trough. 

[jmplautz]

Perhaps Scotty Scheffler scoring more than 2 halves would help. Also, leaving the hottest American golfer at home for political reasons doesn't help either. That's where I'd start.

[bladehunter]

13 hours ago, 2over said:

Shayne Ryan in GD had a good article that the blowout home-team wins are simply because both sides have savvy captains equally matched teams but modern tour pros aren't used to 50,000 angry fans heckling and taunting them for 4 days. That's why the visitors nearly always lose and big-time. Ryan thinks there's no fix, but there is, and a simple one from other team sports.... HOME AND AWAY! Yep, play a two day weekend match in America morning and afternoon four balls where all 12 players must play in the four balls (eliminate foursomes as Ryan says analytics show that format statistically is producing lopsided results and it's not really modern golf, anyway) and then singles matches and then next weekend same thing in Europe (and reverse that order the next matches 2 years hence). 

 

You're selling twice as many tickets, so double the revenue and Bob's your uncle, cumulative score wins. So even getting blown out by 6 points away is far from over!

The fix is culturally. Personally believe that the European players grow up less privileged…and they play like they were raised. Humble.   The Americans are mostly country club brats. And they handle adversity like country club brats. Speaking in general terms. There are exceptions on both sides. 

[me05501]

5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

The fix is culturally. Personally believe that the European players grow up less privileged…and they play like they were raised. Humble.   The Americans are mostly country club brats. And they handle adversity like country club brats. Speaking in general terms. There are exceptions on both sides. 

 

 

I think those broad-brush narratives are mostly baloney.

 

Every player has his own individual story. They're all motivated by different things.

 

When it comes down to it almost all 24 players played high-level college golf in the USA and since that point their trajectories haven't been all that different. 

 

I like to think I'm not spoiled but it wouldn't take me long to get used to the good life these guys are leading. Imagine having a chef, trainer, shrink, tailor, massage therapist, pilot, agent and sponsor rep on speed dial! 

[Ferguson]

2 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

i think playing in hostile territory once every 2 years is fine. It just makes a visiting team winning all the more satisfying.

 

Changing things because of home/away advantage would be silly. 

 

 

 

Nothing should be changed with format, locations, points or games.   

Agreed. 

 

 

[imakaveli]

8 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

And why in the world would one want to eliminate foursomes? It is the hardest, leave your ego at the door type of golf. One has to be a pretty complete, balanced human being to perform there at this level. It is the ultimate display of team golf and the best telling sign of team quality. 

Let's make it only foursomes in Europe and see they cry they don't care 😄

[ThaPebblePlaya]

OP is 100% right, the format doesn't work. Nobody wants to watch one side blow out the other every two years. If you look at the ratings this event probably gets 10% or less of an NFL game on the same afternoon. And this is supposed to be a legendary event?? It's broken, broken, broken.

 

The tournament should be held on neutral site every time. It can be Canada, Japan, SE Asia, Australia, Middle East. The locals there would love to see the pros out every two years. Hold it in Singapore and I can guarantee you there will be no classless Eurotrash, the canes will keep them away.

[Hawkeye77]

13 hours ago, 2over said:

Shayne Ryan in GD had a good article that the blowout home-team wins are simply because both sides have savvy captains equally matched teams but modern tour pros aren't used to 50,000 angry fans heckling and taunting them for 4 days. That's why the visitors nearly always lose and big-time. Ryan thinks there's no fix, but there is, and a simple one from other team sports.... HOME AND AWAY! Yep, play a two day weekend match in America morning and afternoon four balls where all 12 players must play in the four balls (eliminate foursomes as Ryan says analytics show that format statistically is producing lopsided results and it's not really modern golf, anyway) and then singles matches and then next weekend same thing in Europe (and reverse that order the next matches 2 years hence). 

 

You're selling twice as many tickets, so double the revenue and Bob's your uncle, cumulative score wins. So even getting blown out by 6 points away is far from over!

This is really a dumb idea.

[jdl]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

The only thing wrong with the Ryder Cup is that is has been dramatically over-monetized.

 

Too many sponsors, too much merch, too many fans on site, too much on-course infrastructure and too much manufactured drama, all because the money is available to get and the organizers are like hogs at the trough. 

 

And more change is probably around the corner, depending on how things go with the merger...

 

 

[mikewohlwend]

2 hours ago, the_Danimal said:

Foursomes is nice! Not much wrong with the Ryder Cup other than a few greedy players voicing their greedy desires....

 

What greedy desires were voiced over the weekend? I must have missed them.

[darkhelmet]

Not a change to the actual playing format, but I'd like to see them go to a 3-year rotation among the US, Europe, and International teams.  They'll never do it because the Ryder Cup name has too much cache, and they'll want to keep it on an every other year schedule.

 

But I think it means more to the Europeans because they only play every other year.  US players play in one of these every single fall.  Add in a Europe/International competition, and each team gets one year in 3 off.

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, mikewohlwend said:

 

What greedy desires were voiced over the weekend? I must have missed them.

Thanks. No desires were voiced. All made up  media spin

[getitdaily]

Lol...broken 

 

US team form was off well ahead of the event. Europe team form was strong leading up. 

 

This was just a case of nearly every US player being off form and Zach Johnson selecting Jordan spieth. 

 

European team played well as their form suggested coming in. 

 

And the 18th hole in Friday's afternoon matches was CRITICAL. 

[Putter Addict]

The US were doomed the second they chose their buddies over the hot hands. And yes, I am American. But this was a hard team to get behind and the first time in many years I did not watch a single shot. Rusty team, bad captain, poor picks.

 

And honestly why not just say hats off to Europe? There doesn't need to be a "fix". The better team won and congrats to all those guys for playing like a cohesive unit that cared. 

[Golfnuck]

14 hours ago, 2over said:

Shayne Ryan in GD had a good article that the blowout home-team wins are simply because both sides have savvy captains equally matched teams but modern tour pros aren't used to 50,000 angry fans heckling and taunting them for 4 days. That's why the visitors nearly always lose and big-time. Ryan thinks there's no fix, but there is, and a simple one from other team sports.... HOME AND AWAY! Yep, play a two day weekend match in America morning and afternoon four balls where all 12 players must play in the four balls (eliminate foursomes as Ryan says analytics show that format statistically is producing lopsided results and it's not really modern golf, anyway) and then singles matches and then next weekend same thing in Europe (and reverse that order the next matches 2 years hence). 

 

You're selling twice as many tickets, so double the revenue and Bob's your uncle, cumulative score wins. So even getting blown out by 6 points away is far from over!

 

Isn't the current rotation really a "home and away" series but just over a span of a couple of years.   I don't really see the problem. 

 

As to elimination of foursomes .....  why eliminate them just be analytics show that format statistically is producing lopsided results or stated another way the Europeans win more than the Americans so we need to get rid of it so the Americans will will more????  What a joke.  Shayne Ryan is clearly only interested in having the US win more.

[bladehunter]

50 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

 

I think those broad-brush narratives are mostly baloney.

 

Every player has his own individual story. They're all motivated by different things.

 

When it comes down to it almost all 24 players played high-level college golf in the USA and since that point their trajectories haven't been all that different. 

 

I like to think I'm not spoiled but it wouldn't take me long to get used to the good life these guys are leading. Imagine having a chef, trainer, shrink, tailor, massage therapist, pilot, agent and sponsor rep on speed dial! 

Sure. In the micro they do. But otherwise they’re mostly similar. Or same. Parents sent them around the country or around the world playing since they were born. Euro players sometimes did that , but like in Rory’s case.  They sent him alone a lot.  Not the same as a pair of parents taking summers off to travel with you.  But that’s really beside my point. 
 

 

my point is living in general. What a lot of Americans call “ middle class struggling to send their kid to tournaments “ I call privileged.  So I get that it’s a perspective thing and that we all have biases. Myself included. I guarantee you that the Mcclroy family in the 90s -00s would consider the Sheffler or Spieth family in the 90s-00s  “ wealthy “ by comparison to their own station. And Rory is probably one of the more privileged euros ,  if nothing else because  of his talent opening doors then.  
 

so I’m not talking of their spoiled nature now. They’re all spoiled equally now. I’m saying their upbringing.  They’re all pretty used to being catered to.  Those college etc tournaments you mention are mostly their click playing against themselves.  A few international players mixed in.  And those foreign players usually do very well. And they show it by shunning those who aren’t. Finau.  Glover. Theegala …  Should have been on the team. In my opinion.  Guys who have things to play for.   Homa was a surprise for the good. But otherwise just no energy. Nothing.  
 

The one guy I’ll give a thumbs up to is rickie Fowler. I think conceding the last putt and point  was a perfectly classy move to a perfectly classy guy in Fleetwood.  The Americans didn’t deserve to win , and trying to win by pressing Fleetwood to grind over a 3 footer would have been that entitlement personified. Rickie seemed to get that. Know when you’re beat.  Deciding to show up to work on day 3 was too late. It wasn’t going to be handed to them.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by bladehunter

[Bigjim1022]

I heard this idea a few years ago, I assume in Golf Digest or some such publication.  Somehow work the President's cup into the rotation.  Like the winner of the Ryder Cup plays the world while the loser of the Ryder cup gets a year with no competition.  I forget exactly how the details would work out but you get the idea.  

 

It personally wouldn't break my heart to not have the president's cup at all so the US doesn't have a team competition each year.  

 

All that being said, it's pretty clear to me that the Euros treat it with much higher regard and until that changes for the US, I'm not sure any changes will make all that much difference.  

[SkiSchoolPro]

20 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

...What a lot of Americans call “ middle class struggling to send their kid to tournaments “ I call privileged.  

Very true...Only 20% of people in the world have ever flown on an airplane and just over $1 M net worth puts you in the top 1% worldwide, but many Americans in the top 20% view themselves as middle class and some of the 1% Country Club/million dollar home crowd think of themselves as upper-middle class.

Edited October 2, 2023 by SkiSchoolPro

[Pleasedwith3putts]

3 hours ago, Superbrit said:

Wow there is a lot of salty Americans today 😆

 

"we need to change the foursomes"

 

"American players dont care"

 

"captain doesnt know what hes doing"

 

Then in 2 years time and the US wins again (probably) its all back to normal again, the Ryder cup hey

 

 

You forgot to throw in there about how awful the fans are. Yes there was a small amount of booing which is totally unacceptable, but is anyone really going to suggest that Bethpage Black won't be a LOT LOT... worse? You only have to read some of the Ryder Cup posts on WRX which is supposed to be a forum for golf lovers to realise there will always be some that overstep the mark. At least bababooeeyy man was absent from Rome...

[NoTalentLefty]

No fix needed. 

[3whacker]

I was looking at past Ryder Cup teams and eliminating those that have played on numerous teams and since Steve Stricker broke the barrier of non major winners being picked as Captains here is a name to throw out there......John Cook

[stormbringer]

Or we could just leave one of the better golf events alone.  Nothing wrong with the format.

[mikewohlwend]

54 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Thanks. No desires were voiced. All made up  media spin

 

Right. The media and fans making up story lines to add drama. Cantlay not wearing a hat wasn't something that should even matter. There's someone who goes hatless as far back as I remember.

[elwhippy]

Aw diddums. You lost. I fear a massive New York crowd, full of beer, will be an ugly thing to behold. Bethpage is a major venue, too brutal for match play. 

[Jolter]

Here is a possible solution besides just playing better. The Europeans have a distinct advantage of playing the PGA Tour and most likely the courses picked to host a Ryder Cup. The USA has years of advance notice where and when the Europeans host the Ryder Cup on their side. It might be a good idea that PGA Tour players start playing some of these European events and courses to get a better feel of what they have to play on. The Euro's love to tighten fairways and slow the greens down so wouldn;t it be logical to go and play on these courses well before hand? One other thing as I read Zack Johnson wouldn't have changed anything as to his preparation of the team. If that is the case, as nice as person Johnson is, there is something wrong in that assessment.

[ozarkgolfer]

Eurotrash???

 

I heard quote a few cheers when the Americans played good shots. 

 

Can't wait for 2025 and listen to the Bethpage Black crowd. 

[argee1977]

Personally i just see the Ryder Cup as being a fun out of season style week where players and fans can have some fun, the issue recently is it's got a little too competitive for me for the players, the crowd seemed to be having a good back and forth, but the players seem a bit them and us, causing so many friction moments, which always confuses me as most of the 24 would be buddies on the PGA week in, week out.

 

Again, changes to format are pointless, how can you remove the only real team competition from the Ryder Cup in foursomes, the US just need to treat this like everything else in golf, you have an area of weakness, practice.

 

Course changes, or neutral venues remove the home and away nature as well, reality is, you've got 24 of the best in the world, who's day job is to play a different course every week, if they can't dial themselves in during the pre-tournament practice then i just can't see that being a problem with the course.

[gvogel]

I have an idea.  Our side could include Canada and Mexico, both in North America last I checked.  That would give us a better pool of possible players.

 

Then our side could shout NA, NA!  It would save a couple syllables, and stop that stupid USA stuff.  By the way, USA is the best country in the world.  WE shouldn't have to got out of the way to proclaim the obvious.