Why is early extension bad mechanics

[MannJ]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

You will have to continue to experiment with the sequence to find what ties it together. 
 

Did you post an actual swing? If you did I missed it. 
 

It is difficult to force the body into positions if the levers aren’t operating in a way that incentivizes it.
 

In your case, the body might also respond to your intent with the right arm. If you thrust with the right arm, your body has to stand up to make room. If you stay calmer and more structured with the right arm the body will have to have to maintain some amount of inclination and contribute more efficiently to your overall motion.
 

I think what you will find as you’re working through this, is that there are two challenges..

 

1. overcoming misconceptions that make maintaining inclination impossible

 

2. Building a swing from start to finish that incentivizes maintaining inclination 

 

if your swing doesn’t really change for the better, you are missing one of those. Many people don’t get past number 1 and get lost in the sea of opinions on the internet.

I just took these swings inside because it’s storming here but maybe you can see something from this. I would appreciate any input. 1 is my normal swing, take the club back and move through the ball. 2 is me making effort to stay down on the ball in the backswing and then get everything to my left heel in my downswing. As you can see I am not successfully accomplishing either things. 

[MK7Golf21]

41 minutes ago, MannJ said:

I just took these swings inside because it’s storming here but maybe you can see something from this. I would appreciate any input. 1 is my normal swing, take the club back and move through the ball. 2 is me making effort to stay down on the ball in the backswing and then get everything to my left heel in my downswing. As you can see I am not successfully accomplishing either things. 

1.mov 2.mov

 

 I mean it's not bad but practice swing without a ball doesn't mean much, it's a waste of time to try analyzing it. It will look totally different than real swing, just how it is because you aren't hitting a ball. You can see how wide open the face is because of this.

 

I'd recommend posting a real swing instead of stills if you want some good advice from those on the forum.

[Hidraw]

I said that EE is bad geometry and dynamics.  I'd like to explain my current understanding and look forward to discussions in further enhancing my understanding toward a better golf swing.

First, let's talk about geometry - posture and alignment and balance.

I like to think that as we rotate through implact, the rotation creates centrifugal force or artificial gravity in the direction of the target line with the strength about 50 times of the earth gravity.  As such, a 400 gram golf club turns into a 20 kg object that we need to manage.  To maintain balance, we instinctively try to minimize the moment arm of this force against our body, the more the vector of the force is away from the center of mass of the body the more the leverage to upset our balance.  EE is our instinctive re-posturing to reduce the length of this moment arm, that is moving the pelvis closer to the hands and club.  Now, we can see that solving the EE fault should not be focussing on our butts, that is the chair drill, against our instinctive response, but rather to posture and align the impact plane to pass through or near our body center of mass which I surmise is around the navel.

Now imagine the golf club as the trunk of a small tree rooted by the ball on the target line and we want to uproot it.  There are two strategies that I can think of - pulling with both arms straight or pulling with alligator arms with the upper arms attached to the torso.  Now the two strategies designate different lines of force against the tree, one through the shoulder and the other through the elbows.  Back to the golf swing, I prefer my line of force to lie on my elbow plane for the consideration of posture balance.

Now, let's talk about dynamics.

Obviously, we could not effectively golf with alligator arms.  A hybrid strategy is called for.  To maintain the elbow plane during release, we sequentially create alligator arms first with the trail arm and then with the lead arm.  Consequentially, we switch from having the lead arm straight during transition to having trail arm straight during follow through.  I now view this as the arm lag relative to the torso and releasing this lag cause the hands to move more than 90 degrees relative to the torso.  So our golf swing is a three-stage engine after all with lower body including the pelvis as first stage, the torso as the second stage and the shoulder and upper arms as the third stage.  Sequential firings of the stages are obviously critical.  Hot staging should also be considered.

Now, to induce a powerful release of the club, we want to maximize centrifugal force or our artificial gravity during release.  The formula for this force is mv^2/r where v is the speed of the hands and r is the radius of curvature of the hand path.  During release, we want the hand path to be a tight corner or smaller radius.  Thus turning the lead arm into an alligator arm reduces the radius of curvature and induces stronger club release.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Hidraw said:

I said that EE is bad geometry and dynamics.  I'd like to explain my current understanding and look forward to discussions in further enhancing my understanding toward a better golf swing.

First, let's talk about geometry - posture and alignment and balance.

I like to think that as we rotate through implact, the rotation creates centrifugal force or artificial gravity in the direction of the target line with the strength about 50 times of the earth gravity.  As such, a 400 gram golf club turns into a 20 kg object that we need to manage.  To maintain balance, we instinctively try to minimize the moment arm of this force against our body, the more the vector of the force is away from the center of mass of the body the more the leverage to upset our balance.  EE is our instinctive re-posturing to reduce the length of this moment arm, that is moving the pelvis closer to the hands and club.  Now, we can see that solving the EE fault should not be focussing on our butts, that is the chair drill, against our instinctive response, but rather to posture and align the impact plane to pass through or near our body center of mass which I surmise is around the navel.

Now imagine the golf club as the trunk of a small tree rooted by the ball on the target line and we want to uproot it.  There are two strategies that I can think of - pulling with both arms straight or pulling with alligator arms with the upper arms attached to the torso.  Now the two strategies designate different lines of force against the tree, one through the shoulder and the other through the elbows.  Back to the golf swing, I prefer my line of force to lie on my elbow plane for the consideration of posture balance.

Now, let's talk about dynamics.

Obviously, we could not effectively golf with alligator arms.  A hybrid strategy is called for.  To maintain the elbow plane during release, we sequentially create alligator arms first with the trail arm and then with the lead arm.  Consequentially, we switch from having the lead arm straight during transition to having trail arm straight during follow through.  I now view this as the arm lag relative to the torso and releasing this lag cause the hands to move more than 90 degrees relative to the torso.  So our golf swing is a three-stage engine after all with lower body including the pelvis as first stage, the torso as the second stage and the shoulder and upper arms as the third stage.  Sequential firings of the stages are obviously critical.  Hot staging should also be considered.

Now, to induce a powerful release of the club, we want to maximize centrifugal force or our artificial gravity during release.  The formula for this force is mv^2/r where v is the speed of the hands and r is the radius of curvature of the hand path.  During release, we want the hand path to be a tight corner or smaller radius.  Thus turning the lead arm into an alligator arm reduces the radius of curvature and induces stronger club release.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

The key to maximum clubhead speed is efficient use of the ground.  There are 3 ground forces measured by swing catalyst; horizontal, rotational or torque and vertical, most good golfers favor one but long drive folks tend to use all three very well.  The GFs must peak in order and at the right moment in the swing to get maximum speed.  As I understand it to use vertical force there must be extension and it has to happen before impact as peak vertical force is around lead arm parallel to the ground in the downswing if I remember correctly.  

 

Anyway here is an interesting video on GF for Kyle Berkshire who gets good use out of all three forces:

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Nels55

[MannJ]

7 hours ago, Hidraw said:

I said that EE is bad geometry and dynamics.  I'd like to explain my current understanding and look forward to discussions in further enhancing my understanding toward a better golf swing.

First, let's talk about geometry - posture and alignment and balance.

I like to think that as we rotate through implact, the rotation creates centrifugal force or artificial gravity in the direction of the target line with the strength about 50 times of the earth gravity.  As such, a 400 gram golf club turns into a 20 kg object that we need to manage.  To maintain balance, we instinctively try to minimize the moment arm of this force against our body, the more the vector of the force is away from the center of mass of the body the more the leverage to upset our balance.  EE is our instinctive re-posturing to reduce the length of this moment arm, that is moving the pelvis closer to the hands and club.  Now, we can see that solving the EE fault should not be focussing on our butts, that is the chair drill, against our instinctive response, but rather to posture and align the impact plane to pass through or near our body center of mass which I surmise is around the navel.

Now imagine the golf club as the trunk of a small tree rooted by the ball on the target line and we want to uproot it.  There are two strategies that I can think of - pulling with both arms straight or pulling with alligator arms with the upper arms attached to the torso.  Now the two strategies designate different lines of force against the tree, one through the shoulder and the other through the elbows.  Back to the golf swing, I prefer my line of force to lie on my elbow plane for the consideration of posture balance.

Now, let's talk about dynamics.

Obviously, we could not effectively golf with alligator arms.  A hybrid strategy is called for.  To maintain the elbow plane during release, we sequentially create alligator arms first with the trail arm and then with the lead arm.  Consequentially, we switch from having the lead arm straight during transition to having trail arm straight during follow through.  I now view this as the arm lag relative to the torso and releasing this lag cause the hands to move more than 90 degrees relative to the torso.  So our golf swing is a three-stage engine after all with lower body including the pelvis as first stage, the torso as the second stage and the shoulder and upper arms as the third stage.  Sequential firings of the stages are obviously critical.  Hot staging should also be considered.

Now, to induce a powerful release of the club, we want to maximize centrifugal force or our artificial gravity during release.  The formula for this force is mv^2/r where v is the speed of the hands and r is the radius of curvature of the hand path.  During release, we want the hand path to be a tight corner or smaller radius.  Thus turning the lead arm into an alligator arm reduces the radius of curvature and induces stronger club release.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

So essentially ee is the force of the club/swing pulling the body out of ideal striking position early?

And if so, would that imply that the brunt of this force is being generated too early in the downswing (if it is a given that the body is in correct position and physically capable of managing that force). 
So would it be common for ee to be caused by swinging too hard too early?

[Hidraw]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

The key to maximum clubhead speed is efficient use of the ground.  There are 3 ground forces measured by swing catalyst; horizontal, rotational or torque and vertical, most good golfers favor one but long drive folks tend to use all three very well.  The GFs must peak in order and at the right moment in the swing to get maximum speed.  As I understand it to use vertical force there must be extension and it has to happen before impact as peak vertical force is around lead arm parallel to the ground in the downswing if I remember correctly.  

 

Anyway here is an interesting video on GF for Kyle Berkshire who gets good use out of all three forces:

 

The problem of EE is that you instinctively EE to maintain your balance, as such, foregoing the full range of motions for the lower body - weight shifting, flexion/extension, rotation.

[Hidraw]

10 minutes ago, MannJ said:

So essentially ee is the force of the club/swing pulling the body out of ideal striking position early?

And if so, would that imply that the brunt of this force is being generated too early in the downswing (if it is a given that the body is in correct position and physically capable of managing that force). 
So would it be common for ee to be caused by swinging too hard too early?

My understanding is that is not the issue of the timing nor magnitude of the force but it is the direction of the force.  The plane of the force - the impact plane shoud disect the middle of our torso near the center of mass of our body.  So, there is minimal moment arm to pull our body out of balance.  Usually, the impact plane is too steep (either from your address posture or from early extension of the trail arm or both), like passing through your shoulders, the centrifugal force would pull you falling forward.

[aggiegolfer21]

If your grip is stronger and right arm stays in front of you more, you'll get more benefit from keeping your spine angle (see Zach Johnson).  If your grip is weaker and your right elbow works behind you more, you'll probably get more benefit from coming out of your posture earlier than most (see Jack Nicklaus).

[slytown]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:32 PM, MannJ said:

I know this topic is played out. I’ve tried researching it most of the summer. I am hoping someone has a solid answer as to why straightening the body up as it moves into the impact position is more problematic than the difficult timing and somewhat awkward body positioning required to keep a resemblance of the spine angle established at address?

 

I ask because as we move into fall I want to see if I can actually benefit from eliminating ee altogether. The only reason for me doing that is ball striking consistency. Being my height, weight, and age, I am not going to gain distance.
Every time I dabbled into eliminating ee over the summer my scores went up. 
I could get rid of it, but my swing was out there in no man’s land when it wasn’t being monitored. 

It means a reworking of my swing that would take a lot of time and repetition. I am wondering if that time wouldn’t be more constructive if it was spent perfecting my current swing which does have a degree of ee, rather than a reconstruction. 

 

Consistency. 
It would seem plain why spine angle was so important if the arms and the rest of the body drooped straight back into the address position at impact. But it doesn’t. Not for Adam Scott or anyone else. The head moves, the hands come in higher, the body is partially contorted and flung wide open, and the legs and feet are on the move towards the target. Mechanically, how does this produce any more consistency then a straightening of the body?

 

EE is a GOOD THING. It fixes something that is happening earlier in the swing. Try and stay positive. You are reacting well to get to the ball.

 

If you are struggling with EE and want to get rid of it, you need to fix something earlier in the swing. First culprit is grip. A weak grip makes it near impossible to come from the inside or on plane. Second, work on path of the arms. If the arms work out instead of down, you have to EE to shallow the club.

[Longdriver295]

1 minute ago, slytown said:

 

EE is a GOOD THING. It fixes something that is happening earlier in the swing. Try and stay positive. You are reacting well to get to the ball.

 

If you are struggling with EE and want to get rid of it, you need to fix something earlier in the swing. First culprit is grip. A weak grip makes it near impossible to come from the inside or on plane. Second, work on path of the arms. If the arms work out instead of down, you have to EE to shallow the club.

If it's a Good thing then why have I been getting hammered for it from others in my post? I get it I do have very bad EE but I do still hit the ball pretty dang good. One thing it does cause at times is my downswing gets stuck inside and I don't have room to swing the club with the power I need to get further distance. Im pretty sure I lose a lot of power due to EE, but I don't know that is the cause for sure, could be something else I'm doing Wrong. One thing I've got to do is find a Swing to take the pressure off my back due to my back problems I already have

[slytown]

On 10/3/2023 at 11:57 PM, Nels55 said:

Well, I guess that if we define 'early' as too early then anyone who has early extension needs to get that fixed. Definition of terms is often problematic in golf and I believe that EE is often  misapplied.  I believe that Larry Rinker's swing is not early extension though it might look like it to some.  Rinker does mention that getting open and maintaining tush line are not correct for upper core golfers which is where I was going in my post.  I see some or maybe a lot golf instruction as over doing it and 'fixing' an EE problem that does not exist.

 

Here are a few golfers who might be accused of EE:

I don't believe that those swings need EE correction.

 

I agree that a more straight right arm for right-handed golfers is OK compared to most tour pros, but I disagree that EE is an ideal action. Lexi, for example, manages EE very well because she has done since she was a junior. I think most golfers would benefit from getting rid of EE. It requires too much timing of the face. Good for power, but bad for consistency. Even Phil, who arguably has the best hands in golf, struggles with driver because of his steep and EE swing.

[slytown]

2 minutes ago, Longdriver295 said:

If it's a Good thing then why have I been getting hammered for it from others in my post? I get it I do have very bad EE but I do still hit the ball pretty dang good. One thing it does cause at times is my downswing gets stuck inside and I don't have room to swing the club with the power I need to get further distance. Im pretty sure I lose a lot of power due to EE, but I don't know that is the cause for sure, could be something else I'm doing Wrong. One thing I've got to do is find a Swing to take the pressure off my back due to my back problems I already have

 

Actually long drivers EE to get power. It's not consistent power, but its more power. Straight arms at impact create a wider arc. However, they have to move the body up a lot to keep from digging the club in the ground. It also creates a lot of whip in the club near impact.

 

People say its bad because the internet says its bad. If you have good hands and hit the ball consistently, don't change your swing. If you are hitting blocks and pulls, then you might want to work on arm path and grip.

[Longdriver295]

3 minutes ago, slytown said:

 

Actually long drivers EE to get power. It's not consistent power, but its more power. Straight arms at impact create a wider arc. However, they have to move the body up a lot to keep from digging the club in the ground. It also creates a lot of whip in the club near impact.

 

People say its bad because the internet says its bad. If you have good hands and hit the ball consistently, don't change your swing. If you are hitting blocks and pulls, then you might want to work on arm path and grip.

You have saw my videos of my swing right? My arms are straight at impact and extend straight out to my target in my follow through. Now I'll admit I do chicken wing my left arm a bit in my follow through. I hit a baby draw pretty dang consistent. My problem has always been distance. My local club pro taught me to feel as if I was pulling a Chain to help with lag. That helps me gain some 15-20yds (Driver) but that swing is killing my back. When I was bending over more my back wouldn't hurt playing, but since I've changed my posture to more upright like I should be, it's putting a lot of pressure on my back causing pain 

[slytown]

9 minutes ago, Longdriver295 said:

You have saw my videos of my swing right? My arms are straight at impact and extend straight out to my target in my follow through. Now I'll admit I do chicken wing my left arm a bit in my follow through. I hit a baby draw pretty dang consistent. My problem has always been distance. My local club pro taught me to feel as if I was pulling a Chain to help with lag. That helps me gain some 15-20yds (Driver) but that swing is killing my back. When I was bending over more my back wouldn't hurt playing, but since I've changed my posture to more upright like I should be, it's putting a lot of pressure on my back causing pain 

 

Can you post your videos again. I don't see them. All I see are the two stills in this thread.

 

Pulling the chain is exacerbating the problem. When you do that the club gets steep and you cup your wrists. The only way you can get to the ball from that downswing move is to EE. It's causing back issues because you are having to do quick, sudden movements near impact.

 

If you want to relieve your pain, I recommend working on a wider arc with earlier release like Monte teaches. I'm guessing you simply rotate your shoulders too early in the downswing, which moves the arms out instead of down, requiring that EE.

 

I recommend this video for helping your back.

 

 

 

[Longdriver295]

3 minutes ago, slytown said:

 

Can you post your videos again. I don't see them. All I see are the two stills in this thread.

 

Pulling the chain is exacerbating the problem. When you do that the club gets steep and you cup your wrists. The only way you can get to the ball from that downswing move is to EE. It's causing back issues because you are having to do quick, sudden movements near impact.

 

If you want to relieve your pain, I recommend working on a wider arc with earlier release like Monte teaches. I'm guessing you simply rotate your shoulders too early in the downswing, which moves the arms out instead of down, requiring that EE.

 

I recommend this video for helping your back.

 

 

 

I haven't posted anything pics or vids in this post only the threads I made. I will PM you

[ScuffedDimple]

@MannJ what software are you using to record your swing?

[MannJ]

9 minutes ago, joekloo said:

@MannJ what software are you using to record your swing?

OnForm. Free with a limit on number of recordings. I like it. 

[MonteScheinblum]

EE is not a good thing in excess, but it’s not a swing fault.  It’s a solution to get you to the ball when you’re badly out of position.  There are different kinds of EE.  Most are horrible. 

 

Long drivers EE because they are using Excess vertical force which is great for club speed and horrid for dispersion. Many also get the center of mass out early which forces excess EE and isn’t helpful.

 

The more you EE, the less you rotate and the earlier your arms straighten and the earlier you unload the angles in your wrists.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[KD1]

19 hours ago, MannJ said:

2 is me making effort to stay down on the ball in the backswing and then get everything to my left heel in my downswing.

 

Don't you want to do that before the downswing? https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtcoiOwMUz1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

I'm way out of my league here, and I don't know to what degree you're trying to make changes, but something about this really clicked for me personally in regard to visualizing hip movement (at least it works better for me than the chair on the butt drill):

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by KD1

[MannJ]

2 hours ago, KD1 said:

 

Don't you want to do that before the downswing? https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtcoiOwMUz1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

I'm way out of my league here, and I don't know to what degree you're trying to make changes, but something about this really clicked for me personally in regard to visualizing hip movement (at least it works better for me than the chair on the butt drill):

 

The move looks violent but hopefully the exaggeration will help. Thanks! I will give it a shot. 

[Nels55]

4 hours ago, KD1 said:

 

Don't you want to do that before the downswing? https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtcoiOwMUz1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

I'm way out of my league here, and I don't know to what degree you're trying to make changes, but something about this really clicked for me personally in regard to visualizing hip movement (at least it works better for me than the chair on the butt drill):

 

 

Regarding this training method I have a question for anyone who is expert on lower back issues.

Is this spine position good?  Will moving through this position cause lower back problems?  Would it be better if his belt was tilted more to take some side bend out?

Thanks!

[Nels55]

6 hours ago, slytown said:

 

I agree that a more straight right arm for right-handed golfers is OK compared to most tour pros, but I disagree that EE is an ideal action. Lexi, for example, manages EE very well because she has done since she was a junior. I think most golfers would benefit from getting rid of EE. It requires too much timing of the face. Good for power, but bad for consistency. Even Phil, who arguably has the best hands in golf, struggles with driver because of his steep and EE swing.

I wonder if Lexi is succeeding in spite of her EE as you say or if she is successful because that is how she needs to swing in order to play well?

[Hidraw]

Lexi does not early extend out of posture for balancing purpose.  Look at her proper elbows and impact plane management throughout her down swing.  Typical EE fault is to bring the pelvis closer to the target line but Lexi is extending right at P7 propelling her left hip and left shoulder away from the target line.  This is parametric acceleration in action.

[Nels55]

9 hours ago, slytown said:

 

Can you post your videos again. I don't see them. All I see are the two stills in this thread.

 

Pulling the chain is exacerbating the problem. When you do that the club gets steep and you cup your wrists. The only way you can get to the ball from that downswing move is to EE. It's causing back issues because you are having to do quick, sudden movements near impact.

 

If you want to relieve your pain, I recommend working on a wider arc with earlier release like Monte teaches. I'm guessing you simply rotate your shoulders too early in the downswing, which moves the arms out instead of down, requiring that EE.

 

I recommend this video for helping your back.

 

 

 

You know I have watched or I should say tried to watch this man's videos off and on over the years and something about his delivery makes me want to scream.  Seriously.  I watched this entire video and I only screamed twice.  I suppose it is a personality problem on my part though I do think that he could have demonstrated the swing in about one minute instead of ten but like I said my issue.  Anyway, I found the concept interesting and looks to me a bit like Milo Line's bow to the ball teaching.  I have lower back issues and I have been fooling around with this sort of motion and so far it actually seems to work so thanks for the video!

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

You know I have watched or I should say tried to watch this man's videos off and on over the years and something about his delivery makes me want to scream.  Seriously.  I watched this entire video and I only screamed twice. 

Recommendation for Wayne D. videos, watch them on 1.25x speed, lol. Even 1.5x is better than standard. 😅

[rdj703]

On 10/3/2023 at 11:54 AM, angler99 said:

I'm 42 and started working on eliminating EE for the last three years through multiple instructors. All but one instructor seemed to know the cause of my EE and I would fix that cause, but still had EE. However, while those issues that I fixed didn't eliminate the EE, ball striking got better and better. In retrospect, each of these issues were worked on out of order. While I was wildly frustrated at the time that each of these fixes didn't eliminate the EE, the process has really been good for my game and after my last lesson, I kind of realized that I should have been working on that issue first and then the other things I had been working on before. After this last lesson, I still have EE but it's so much less than when I started this journey and my ball striking has never been better.

 

Even if you can't eliminate EE, I think it's worth working on as fixing many of the issues has really helped my swing path, club face control, consistency, and I have gained a TON of distance across all clubs in the bag.

 

I'm sort of at a point where I'm ok if I never eliminate it fully, but I'm going to try to keep working on it as it seems to be getting better and it's helping my golf swing regardless

Can you elaborate on the order of fixes?  I know each person is different, but I've had it for a while and haven't been able to correct it.  I can play well when the timing is good. 

[slytown]

11 hours ago, Hidraw said:

Lexi does not early extend out of posture for balancing purpose.  Look at her proper elbows and impact plane management throughout her down swing.  Typical EE fault is to bring the pelvis closer to the target line but Lexi is extending right at P7 propelling her left hip and left shoulder away from the target line.  This is parametric acceleration in action.

 

If you watch her swing, her knee locks out and she has a flippy release. Yes, she manages it really well because she has good hands. But, it is still early extending before she gets to her lead side. I think its mostly due to her lack of hip rotation in the backswing. To clarify, I"m not saying she is over the top. I'm saying she extends early.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by slytown

[Zitlow]

The golf swing is a circle, the back of the neck C7 is the center. The clubhead is the circumference and the left arm is the radius in the backswing and the right arm is the radius just after impact and until the end of the swing.

 

For every action there's an opposite and equal reaction. One way to look at the centrifugal is escape from the center. When you whirl a ball on a string the is ball whirling in a circle and is trying to escape (pull asway) from the string and hand (holding force). If you let go of the string the ball flies in a straight line. 

 

In Lexy's case the clubhead is pulling her head down towards the ball and she has to stand up to resist the pull or she might hit everything fat. When you see guys who lunge at the ball with their upper body their heads are being pulled down the fairway by the clubhead because they don't have much of a holding force. 

 

Mike Dunaway was a centrifugal force machine. Instead of his COM and SCC being stacked at impact his COM is way ahead of his SCC setting up the holding force. Like a hammer thrower he's resisting the weight of the clubhead pulling away from him with his C7. 

 

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, slytown said:

 

If you watch her swing, her knee locks out and she has a flippy release. Yes, she manages it really well because she has good hands. But, it is still early extending before she gets to her lead side. I think its mostly due to her lack of hip rotation in the backswing. To clarify, I"m not saying she is over the top. I'm saying she extends early.

 

 

 

She doesn't shift/turn and shift/turn. She's swinging on a single axis.

 

Shifts to his right foot and is balanced on his right foot, leg and hip (axis) and the left side is the kinetic side. Then shifts to his left leg and his balanced on his left foot, leg and hip (axis) and the right side is the kinetic side. 

 

[angler99]

4 hours ago, rdj703 said:

Can you elaborate on the order of fixes?  I know each person is different, but I've had it for a while and haven't been able to correct it.  I can play well when the timing is good. 

The order that I ended up doing was this:

 

- Fix a weak right hand grip.  Left hand was good but the right hand was weak and didn't match up well with my left hand grip

 

- Worked on keeping right hand palm down on the takeaway and having the face angle match my spine angle at left arm parallel. Also worked on an open club face at the top.

 

- Worked on width

 

- Worked on depth

 

- Some other stuff that I sort of forget at this point.

 

- Finally, I worked on moving my hips properly in the backswing. My right knee was buckling out to my right side with too much bend.

 

- Now I'm working on shallowing or rather trying to figure out if the lack of shallowing is a result of something I'm doing incorrectly, or if I need to think about actually shallowing the club.

 

However, if I knew what I know now, I would have worked on it in this order:

 

Grip, moving hips properly in backswing, then I would have looked to see if my width and depth were an issue. Then shallowing at the very end.