Porzak Hip Bump

[Carlito]

Hands facing the chest and start your downswing with hands and arms (Monte, Harrington, Elite Golf Schools)..

 

 

 

What do you think?  As long as your chest is turning in the backswing there is a window to fire with hands/arms?

Edited November 27, 2023 by Carlito

[CasualLie]

The Porzak hip bump at address has helped me a lot.  I learned the proper setup from him personally.  As others have pointed out, it's for setup, not something you consciously maintain throughout the swing.  Plenty of hip turn, plenty of pressure shift to be had.
 

But this is just the "current" name.  If it matters, I should call it the Monte hip bump because after all, he showed it to me first.  That lesson with Monte was the single greatest lesson I've ever had.
 

What I like a lot about Porzak is his philosophy can be summed up as building a swing with the least amount of manipulation.  My overactive brain needs this for golf.  Funny, just heard Pete Cowen say everyone is a manipulator of the club...pros are much better at it.  I like that he doesn't go crazy on GRF or shallowing, but he does cover it in context.
 

Adam knows how to teach, in person, he will offer other adjustments you need that help your swing, stuff you won't see on YouTube, and for good reason.  Same can be said about Monte (and others).

 

I've learned the most about my swing from Monte and Adam has given me a framework to help keep it simple.  I'll watch a lot of YouTube videos from others, mostly as "background music", it can be entertaining, and every once in a long while something may be fun to try.  There's always something to learn, but you have to be very discerning. 
 

It's funny someone posted they find Porzak's videos not helpful and just marketing lessons, training aids, and videos.  Hello?  That's all instructors, YouTube is marketing.  But Adam isn't selling a lot of training aids and videos, nowhere near others.  His YT videos do help sell lessons, but he's doing that with quality videos showing good stuff, not a TikTok like approach.  He's pretty popular in SoCal, so even if the YT stuff gets him a few students from out of town, it's not like that's building a big part of his book.  

[Frank Newport]

9 hours ago, CasualLie said:

The Porzak hip bump at address has helped me a lot.  I learned the proper setup from him personally.  As others have pointed out, it's for setup, not something you consciously maintain throughout the swing.  Plenty of hip turn, plenty of pressure shift to be had.
 

But this is just the "current" name.  If it matters, I should call it the Monte hip bump because after all, he showed it to me first.  That lesson with Monte was the single greatest lesson I've ever had.
 

What I like a lot about Porzak is his philosophy can be summed up as building a swing with the least amount of manipulation.  My overactive brain needs this for golf.  Funny, just heard Pete Cowen say everyone is a manipulator of the club...pros are much better at it.  I like that he doesn't go crazy on GRF or shallowing, but he does cover it in context.
 

Adam knows how to teach, in person, he will offer other adjustments you need that help your swing, stuff you won't see on YouTube, and for good reason.  Same can be said about Monte (and others).

 

I've learned the most about my swing from Monte and Adam has given me a framework to help keep it simple.  I'll watch a lot of YouTube videos from others, mostly as "background music", it can be entertaining, and every once in a long while something may be fun to try.  There's always something to learn, but you have to be very discerning. 
 

It's funny someone posted they find Porzak's videos not helpful and just marketing lessons, training aids, and videos.  Hello?  That's all instructors, YouTube is marketing.  But Adam isn't selling a lot of training aids and videos, nowhere near others.  His YT videos do help sell lessons, but he's doing that with quality videos showing good stuff, not a TikTok like approach.  He's pretty popular in SoCal, so even if the YT stuff gets him a few students from out of town, it's not like that's building a big part of his book.  

 

Nobody in this thread said this. 

 

I personally believe there's a hierarchy of value when it comes to golf instruction with one-on-one in-person lessons being at or near the top and short videos (YT shorts and TikTok) being near the bottom. I also feel instructional video collections (a la Monte) offer more nuance and therefore more value than one-off videos, but people's resources are limited and whatever medium they find "helpful" is their opinion. As it pertains to Porzak, I don't think it's accurate to say his videos are "just marketing" though. I do believe he's trying to be "helpful."

 

[GoGoErky]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:29 PM, Frank Newport said:

 

Thank you. That makes much more sense. It's my fault for going to YouTube for a quick fix when I know that most of the videos lack the nuance needed to learn technical aspects of the swing.

 

I don't have an opinion on Porzak's content. A lot of his videos are of him teaching a student not so much the viewer so they're more of an advertisement for his other products (lessons, aids, subscriptions etc.) rather than a training video with a lot of nuance. That's also true of a lot of other free golf instructor content on YouTube and Instagram. If you ever bought any of Monte's videos you can see how much nuance is actually needed to teach a viewer and I appreciate how much work he puts in to make those videos. Youtube and Instagram aren't really built for that format and the nominal fee Monte charges is well worth the quality of content you receive.

 

 

 

That seems much more logical and isn't too different from what other teachers prescribe. Monte is a proponent of secondary tilt in the setup achieved through a slight bump in the hips. Thank you.

 

6 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

 

Nobody in this thread said this. 

 

I personally believe there's a hierarchy of value when it comes to golf instruction with one-on-one in-person lessons being at or near the top and short videos (YT shorts and TikTok) being near the bottom. I also feel instructional video collections (a la Monte) offer more nuance and therefore more value than one-off videos, but people's resources are limited and whatever medium they find "helpful" is their opinion. As it pertains to Porzak, I don't think it's accurate to say his videos are "just marketing" though. I do believe he's trying to be "helpful."

 

You eluded to the marketing in the quoted post.

[Frank Newport]

41 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

 

You eluded to the marketing in the quoted post.

Yes, but I didn't say that his videos are not helpful and just marketing. In most of the videos I've seen he is teaching a student and educating the viewer while selling a product to the viewer at the same time. To what degree he is doing each is up for debate, but I don't believe his videos are merely marketing. Whether or not someone finds a video helpful is their opinion. It was a mistake for me to seek instruction from Youtube when I have better resources at my disposal, but others may not have that luxury so they may find YT instruction more helpful than I do.

 

By the way, I don't believe Porzak pushes his products all that hard in his videos, but the fact that this discussion is taking place emphasizes the value of in-person instruction and nuanced video collections over short online videos. Porzak has released 3 follow-up videos and multiple shorts since posting his original hip bump video so apparently some added nuance was needed. 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, Frank Newport said:

By the way, I don't believe Porzak pushes his products all that hard in his videos, but the fact that this discussion is taking place emphasizes the value of in-person instruction and nuanced video collections over short online videos. Porzak has released 3 follow-up videos and multiple shorts since posting his original hip bump video so apparently some added nuance was needed. 

There are lots of golfers who make progress with only online lessons so it’s possible to not use in person to progress. There are those who cant progress/learn thru online instruction and need hands on. There are those who can learn purely from watching some short videos or video series from YouTube. Its dependent on what the golfer prefers and what works best for him.

 

Porzak has numerous videos on the hip bump, just like he does for the takeaway and backswing, so it’s not just more nuance needed, it’s what he’s showing different students in lessons 

[me05501]

Everyone has different tastes and responds to different flavors of instruction.

 

I think Porzak has developed a solid and relatively unique solution to the problem of "how can I expand my reach/influence/income when all my lesson time is already sold?"

 

He's done this in a few ways. 

• He makes free videos that are professionally shot during lessons
• He has three live instructors working under him but teaching the same method
• He and Mike both offer remote lessons
• He has the full paid video series for people who don't want to sift through the free videos to learn the method, and
• He offers a limited amount of merch that is fairly unique and not gimmicky. 

He's not rolling out a different method or gizmo every six months. He's not changing his instruction style to suit the medium. He's continuing to spend most of his time in live lessons. He's not inviting golf influencers on for co-promotion. 

 

The only time he's deviated from this was when he made a series last summer with his mentor Todd Sones where they were talking to each other or the camera without a student on the tee. Those videos were a lot more like the usual YouTube golf instructor content you see every day. It came across as being a bit cheesy and over-caffeinated to me. I prefer his usual approach. 

[MK7Golf21]

14 minutes ago, me05501 said:

Everyone has different tastes and responds to different flavors of instruction.

 

I think Porzak has developed a solid and relatively unique solution to the problem of "how can I expand my reach/influence/income when all my lesson time is already sold?"

 

He's done this in a few ways. 

• He makes free videos that are professionally shot during lessons
• He has three live instructors working under him but teaching the same method
• He and Mike both offer remote lessons
• He has the full paid video series for people who don't want to sift through the free videos to learn the method, and
• He offers a limited amount of merch that is fairly unique and not gimmicky. 

He's not rolling out a different method or gizmo every six months. He's not changing his instruction style to suit the medium. He's continuing to spend most of his time in live lessons. He's not inviting golf influencers on for co-promotion. 

 

The only time he's deviated from this was when he made a series last summer with his mentor Todd Sones where they were talking to each other or the camera without a student on the tee. Those videos were a lot more like the usual YouTube golf instructor content you see every day. It came across as being a bit cheesy and over-caffeinated to me. I prefer his usual approach. 

 

Todd Sones is his mentor? Had a lesson with him years back.

[Carlito]

 

Holy s***, best training aid ever seen😉

[Zitlow]

6 hours ago, Carlito said:

 

Holy s***, best training aid ever seen😉

 

I knew sooner or later one of the teaching grifters would reveal the secret to winning the Green Jacket. 

[Rapidcat]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:40 PM, Carlito said:

 

Holy s***, best training aid ever seen😉

 

Not do-able in much of Asia.

[Carlito]

What I like the most. Almost every vid with students. 

[luke22zm]

I’ve tried this method a few different times, what seems to get me is the inability to feel a pressure/weight shift into the trail leg while doing the hip bump.  It seems to throw off my timing and makes it very inconsistent.  It doesn’t make sense to preset the hips forward and back, then turn perpendicular to your spine and still have enough shift into the trail side to keep your hips back and out of the way during the swing.  I personally have screed my swing up more trying to implement this than it has helped.  I’ve had many in person lessons with golf pros over the years and they all have said to shift pressure on the backswing and lead with the lower body, I find it very hard to do this while presetting the hips in this manner, it just feels like there is nothing there to push off of or lead with.

[GoGoErky]

4 hours ago, luke22zm said:

I’ve tried this method a few different times, what seems to get me is the inability to feel a pressure/weight shift into the trail leg while doing the hip bump.  It seems to throw off my timing and makes it very inconsistent.  It doesn’t make sense to preset the hips forward and back, then turn perpendicular to your spine and still have enough shift into the trail side to keep your hips back and out of the way during the swing.  I personally have screed my swing up more trying to implement this than it has helped.  I’ve had many in person lessons with golf pros over the years and they all have said to shift pressure on the backswing and lead with the lower body, I find it very hard to do this while presetting the hips in this manner, it just feels like there is nothing there to push off of or lead with.

Porzak philosophy on pressure shifting is that the upper body turning causes the pressure to shift into the trail leg and not some other movement to get there. He doesn’t really have a recentering move either as his pressure goes to the lead side from what is similar to Monte’s zipper away drill. So if trying to apply some other principles of pressure shifting to porzaks method it will cause issues.

 

I may be wrong but even in non porzak type swings there really isn’t a pushing off in the trail leg.
 

For Porzak the trail leg is a brace and the lead is a post. Theres not a lot or any lateral movement in his swing method

[me05501]

4 hours ago, luke22zm said:

I’ve tried this method a few different times, what seems to get me is the inability to feel a pressure/weight shift into the trail leg while doing the hip bump.  It seems to throw off my timing and makes it very inconsistent.  It doesn’t make sense to preset the hips forward and back, then turn perpendicular to your spine and still have enough shift into the trail side to keep your hips back and out of the way during the swing.  I personally have screed my swing up more trying to implement this than it has helped.  I’ve had many in person lessons with golf pros over the years and they all have said to shift pressure on the backswing and lead with the lower body, I find it very hard to do this while presetting the hips in this manner, it just feels like there is nothing there to push off of or lead with.

As @GoGoErky said the pressure shift happens from turning your center of mass over the trail leg rather than through lateral movement. This assumes you’re using the correct width of stance for the club in your hand. Wider with driver than with wedge. 
 

My tendency has always been to want to slide instead of turning so any intentional lateral move is hard for me to deploy. I always overdo it. The fact that most pros have a recentering is meaningless to me as a middle aged non-athletic player. That’s probably why this method appeals to me. 

[GoGoErky]

Just now, me05501 said:

As @GoGoErky said the pressure shift happens from turning your center of mass over the trail leg rather than through lateral movement. This assumes you’re using the correct width of stance for the club in your hand. Wider with driver than with wedge. 
 

My tendency has always been to want to slide instead of turning so any intentional lateral move is hard for me to deploy. I always overdo it. The fact that most pros have a recentering is meaningless to me as a middle aged non-athletic player. That’s probably why this method appeals to me. 

Sliding makes recentering harder because there’s not much time to make that move. Recentering happens more from how the hips are rotating than a move that way. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

My tendency has always been to want to slide instead of turning so any intentional lateral move is hard for me to deploy. I always overdo it. The fact that most pros have a recentering is meaningless to me as a middle aged non-athletic player. That’s probably why this method appeals to me. 

 

Most of the time a slide is just not pushing forward early enough.

 

For a righty, and in most good swings:

• You push laterally toward the right (trail side) at the start of the backswing.
• Around P2 you begin pushing forward.
  • At first, you still move slightly toward the trail side, but you're slowing down.
  • Around P3, your pushing begins to visibly move you forward a bit too.
• From P3 to ~P5 you're visibly going forward.
• From P5 to P6 you're jumping/extending/turning quite a bit.

There's not much of a push forward in the downswing… because it's done in the last 2/3 of the backswing.

[me05501]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Most of the time a slide is just not pushing forward early enough.

 

For a righty, and in most good swings:

• You push laterally toward the right (trail side) at the start of the backswing.
• Around P2 you begin pushing forward.
  • At first, you still move slightly toward the trail side, but you're slowing down.
  • Around P3, your pushing begins to visibly move you forward a bit too.
• From P3 to ~P5 you're visibly going forward.
• From P5 to P6 you're jumping/extending/turning quite a bit.

There's not much of a push forward in the downswing… because it's done in the last 2/3 of the backswing.

 

I understand it. I've experimented with it enough on the range to understand the benefits of more speed and distance. I just can't execute it reliably, and moreover I've found that I can achieve good enough results without consciously trying to do it. 

 

I've decided to make it a project in my next life (as long as I'm reincarnated in human form).

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2024 by me05501

[luke22zm]

I also don’t understand the hip joints over ankles and weight so much on the balls of the feet.  Seems like a majority of the pros I see definetly do not have the hips joints in line with the ankles, a good portion have the hips behind the ankles at setup.  I also don’t see a lot of pros with that much weight on the balls of there feet, as visibly as he describes.  Perhaps he is just over emphasizing things to cure most people’s bad habits, but that can be dangerous with amateurs who don’t all have the same issue or take everything very literally.  Not saying he is wrong, just don’t believe what he is teaching appplies to everyone like it seems. 

[GoGoErky]

20 minutes ago, luke22zm said:

I also don’t understand the hip joints over ankles and weight so much on the balls of the feet.  Seems like a majority of the pros I see definetly do not have the hips joints in line with the ankles, a good portion have the hips behind the ankles at setup.  I also don’t see a lot of pros with that much weight on the balls of there feet, as visibly as he describes.  Perhaps he is just over emphasizing things to cure most people’s bad habits, but that can be dangerous with amateurs who don’t all have the same issue or take everything very literally.  Not saying he is wrong, just don’t believe what he is teaching appplies to everyone like it seems. 

How are you judging if they have weight on the balls of their feet?

 

we have force plate measurements that show where weight/pressure is.

 

i bet there’s more pros with hip joints in line with their knees and ankles. This is actually a common position taught by almost every instructor. 

post the pros who don’t have either

Edited October 2, 2024 by GoGoErky

[me05501]

2 hours ago, luke22zm said:

I also don’t understand the hip joints over ankles and weight so much on the balls of the feet.  Seems like a majority of the pros I see definetly do not have the hips joints in line with the ankles, a good portion have the hips behind the ankles at setup.  I also don’t see a lot of pros with that much weight on the balls of there feet, as visibly as he describes.  Perhaps he is just over emphasizing things to cure most people’s bad habits, but that can be dangerous with amateurs who don’t all have the same issue or take everything very literally.  Not saying he is wrong, just don’t believe what he is teaching appplies to everyone like it seems. 

In the setup they prescribe you initially have weight on the balls of your feet, but this is with your knees pretty straight. Once you break your knees a tad the weight naturally settles in closer to the mid foot. 
 

Porzak and Todd Sones talk about “grabbing the ground” with your feet and go into a lot of detail on where you want to feel pressure build up as you turn.
 

You have to watch a lot of the free content to find these details. 

[Carlito]

10 hours ago, me05501 said:

You have to watch a lot of the free content to find these details. 

Thats the point. If you follow Porzak you have to be extrem carefully watching his content. 

The good news... only a few fundamentals to study. 

 

Reverse K setup (lead leg "post", trail leg "brace")

Hip bump (you have to experiment) .... i make this bump in an erected position 

Hips over ankles 

Takeaway 50% rotation 50%lifting ... blending motion 

Early and full wrist c0ck 

Connected.... hands always in front of the chest

.......

One missing piece for me was the distance between hands and body and the correct leverage (handle/wrists) adressing the ball. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2024 by Carlito

[MK7Golf21]

Monte used to be big on teaching a hip bump/reverse K at address, I think he has moved a little bit away from teaching it after 3d showing pro's with upper and lower more stacked. Believe slicefixer was the same in regard to teaching reverse k even though Hogan didn't have much, he said it was easier than what Hogan was doing.

Edited October 3, 2024 by MK7Golf21

[Duffer Mark]

I understand the hip bump is supposed to take pressure off the lower back but has anyone experienced any lower back issues using this setup method? I did today but only a few times. I probably moved incorrectly. 

[GoGoErky]

9 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

I understand the hip bump is supposed to take pressure off the lower back but has anyone experienced any lower back issues using this setup method? I did today but only a few times. I probably moved incorrectly. 

When I was trying this method a few years ago I did but it was because I was turning incorrectly. 
 

film yourself and compare it to his videos 

Edited October 10, 2024 by GoGoErky

[vernon]

For as simple as he makes it look I'm sometimes not sure that I've got it right either until I'm about halfway back.

 

Easy to know then although it's too late.

 

To me it's hardest with the driver and fairway woods but that's probably because I've fought a sway and slide my entire golfing life.

[Duffer Mark]

25 minutes ago, vernon said:

For as simple as he makes it look I'm sometimes not sure that I've got it right either until I'm about halfway back.

 

Easy to know then although it's too late.

 

To me it's hardest with the driver and fairway woods but that's probably because I've fought a sway and slide my entire golfing life.

Yep, swaying is my issue. I tend to sway more with the driver so the quieter my lower body, the less turn and power I feel I have, especially, with this hip bump. But if I turn properly without sway, the result is great! My mind just gets in the way.

[me05501]

On 10/10/2024 at 11:24 AM, Duffer Mark said:

Yep, swaying is my issue. I tend to sway more with the driver so the quieter my lower body, the less turn and power I feel I have, especially, with this hip bump. But if I turn properly without sway, the result is great! My mind just gets in the way.

 

Once you're confident that you're nailing the setup with the hip bump the next thing to focus on is the post/brace concept. Make sure you're bracing with your trail leg (to prevent swaying off the ball) and be sure to swing around the post (lead leg).

 

It seems like this is where any speed that might be "lost" from a very centered turn can magically reappear. 

 

*****

It's always seemed intuitive to me that each of us is only going to turn X degrees during a full golf swing. We're all built different and we all have a unique natural timing. No matter how hard we try to change our swing we're likely to keep the same timing and same amount of rotation we always have. Those things are very hard to change. 

Porzak's method seems designed to take some of that natural rotation from the backswing and add it back to the follow-through. 

 

This may only make sense to me but thinking this way helps prevent me from overrunning my backswing. 

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by me05501

[Nickc]

To initiate my swing I do a forward press by slightly kicking in the right knee which causes an initial hip bump and a bracing of the right leg/knee. The feeling is I rebound off the forward press but maintain the brace in the right knee so that it maintains it's relative position i.e does not sway to the right...maybe  haven't explained that very well!

The rest of the swing  (is an attempt) to basically follow the sequence @iacas described above.

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Nickc

[93tilInfinity]

Not hip bump related but this is the active Porzak topic so I'll post here:

"Starting the transition we are pushing from the inside heel of our trail leg to open up hips."

 

Direct quote from Porzak. Is that feel something that's common or more specific to him?

Edited October 14, 2024 by 93tilInfinity