Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue, new vs old

[Yacho]

EDIT:  TL;DR:  I've concluded that the 2023 version of the Prolaunch Blue with the new graphics is, in fact, THE SAME as the original version available in the early 2000's.

 

---original post---

 

Does anyone know if the Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue available today from True Temper is the same as the original PL Blue circa 2004?  Different paint job, of course, but anything else? 

 

I ask because I may have happened upon my new favorite driver shaft by accident.  The other day, I found a battle-scarred Killer Bee Stinger plus 10° titanium driver in the barrel at my local thrift store. And with it being attached to what I knew was an aftermarket shaft from a respectable company, figured it was worth my $2 to bring it home, if nothing more than to salvage the Grafalloy prolaunch blue 65S from it and try it out in some other heads.  Unfortunately, I took the driver to the range before disassembly, and after a nice warmup and a couple strips of lead tape, was absolutely mashing the Killer Bee.  Everything about the tempo and kick from the prolaunch blue was feeling awesome, perfectly well-timed to my swing, and launch was visually ideal.  Now I can't bring myself to piece it out, since it has become the new benchmark.

 

Cue my search for another PL Blue 65S to actually put a TM adapter on it and see what it can do with some newer head tech.  However...  looking at pics on auction sites of drivers equipped with the classic Prolaunch blue shaft leads me to believe that mine is actually tipped (by maybe as much as 2"!) upon installation in the Killer Bee, and to replicate the shaft feel I want at the length I prefer, I'd have to buy a new/uncut one instead of finding a pull that has been butt cut.  Harder to find the original these days, but I'm fine getting the newer version available from True temper so long as it's the same beast.  Also, can anyone give me an untipped measurement of the original version from tip to the "Y" in "Grafalloy" to confirm my suspicions?

 

Thanks! 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Yacho

[Cwebb]

The original "Blue" was very different than the original "Prolaunch Blue".  The first has a very stiff mid section into the tip, whereas the "Prolaunch" version has a soft mid and tip section.

 

Just need to be careful with these, as it's really easy to get them mixed up

[Yacho]

Yep, I'm aware of the affinity for the original Blue, and it definitely adds more than a little confusion in some of these forum posts.  Also makes it a p.i.a. to google info on the Prolaunch Blue exclusively.

 

But yes, and thank you.  Confirmed, I'm looking at the "Prolaunch - Blue 65S".

[Yacho]

 

These two...   are these the same shafts, 20yrs later with new clothes?

[Cwebb]

50 minutes ago, Yacho said:

 

These two...   are these the same shafts, 20yrs later with new clothes?

 

Most likely, yes.  Although I haven't bend profile measured the new one

[AKA_Double J]

Would you also assume that the stock shaft in the Adams Fast12 fairways would be the same?  I know it has the kind of rough "speed coat" finish, so slightly different in that respect.  

 

10 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Most likely, yes.  Although I haven't bend profile measured the new one

 

[deepred]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:31 AM, AKA_Double J said:

Would you also assume that the stock shaft in the Adams Fast12 fairways would be the same?  I know it has the kind of rough "speed coat" finish, so slightly different in that respect.  

 

 

Not necessarily, a few years ago Diamond Tour and other places were blowing out Pro Launch shafts, red and blue, which were a cancellation when Adams was sold. They listed them as decontented, whatever that means. I bought a red shaft and they advised me to cut an extra inch off the tip to get it closer to the after market Red. The best thing to do is take the grip off and uncover the manufacturer code. If you have that email True Temper and they can advise you from there. Other than the OEM shafts being different I do t think there is much difference year over year in those shafts. Howard Jones would probably know.

[Yacho]

EDIT:  I've concluded that the 2023 version of the Prolaunch Blue with the new graphics is, in fact, THE SAME as the original version available in the early 2000's.  I can't verify that there are not "made for" versions of this shaft in both graphical styles, but I'm otherwise convinced that at least these two aftermarket versions show to be consistent in construction and specifications. 

 

Continue reading to empathize (or sympathize) with my painfully drawn-out learning process.

 

---original post---

 

Just following up on this post to add to the knowledgebase for posterity.

 

I've concluded that the original Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue (65s) available in the early 00's is not the same as the one available today (2023) with the updated graphics.  What's more, there is also a version that came out around 2013 that appears to have the same graphics as the original, but is actually more like the 2023 version in its playing attributes than it's original namesake.

 

The original shaft is much more stout than either of the more recent versions.  I'd say the 00's version flexes more like a Stiff+ while the other two flex closer to a Reg+.

 

Differences in digital caliper readings along the length of the shafts at many points confirm a variance in the construction between the 2013 and the OG, which no doubt helps to explain the difference in flex.  But aside from the stiffness, there's two visual ways to tell the original apart from the 2013 model.  The silver portion of the shaft on the 2013 version is a lighter color, while the OG has a slightly darker, pewter hue to it.  And although the graphics are identical, the blue portion of the shaft under the grip is 5.5" away from the "P" in "prolaunch" on the 2013, while it is only 4.5" away on the OG.

 

I didn't have access to all three at once to compare, but I did have both the 2013 and then the 2023 in hand with the OG on two separate occasions, and I can assure you that they are both softer than the OG in a similar fashion.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the 2013 and the 2023 are the exact same shaft with different paint jobs, but I never had both of these side by side to confirm.

 

Pic:  Original (2004) on top, 2013 on bottom

 

 

I hope this helps anyone who might find themselves in my situation.  Unfortunately, as I prefer the original, it looks like I'm resorted to finding a decent pull, or hunting down a N.O.S. that's been long forgotten in the back corner of someone's shop for the last 20 years.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Yacho

[Howard_Jones]

The ProLaunch Blue never changed, only the graphics did, so todays PL Blue is the same as the very first version of it.

Be aware of the "SUB models" like PL Blue SC (Speed Coat), thats a different shaft, the same with the Super charged model (CW balanced).

But, as long as the name is "only" ProLaunch BLUE, its the same shaft, with different graphics depending on what year it was made.

About TIP TRIM
The PL Blue only have 3.0 long tip section (from 2010), and we need 1.25" for insert, plus the height of the ferrule, who gives a limit for tip trim to about 1.5"
If the shaft is made in 2009 or before, the tip section was 4.5" inch (for Bore trough head design).

As this chart tells us, if we used the BT version in todays standard bore, we should tip trim it 1.25", and another 1.25" goes for insert. W/O further tip trim, that should leave a tip section of 4.5" minus 2.5 = 2.0" from the top of the hosel to where it starts to taper wider.

I cant find "tip to graphics" for any of this 2, so you will have to measure the tips OD all the way to where it starts to taper and do the math.



Specs BEFORE 2010 (first version with 4.5" Tip)
As far as i know, from 2010 the tip is 1.5 shorter, and butt section 1.5 longer, Mid/taper part is the same.
 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, Yacho said:

Just following up on this post to add to the knowledgebase for posterity.

 

I've concluded that the original Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue (65s) available in the early 00's is not the same as the one available today (2023) with the updated graphics.  What's more, there is also a version that came out around 2013 that appears to have the same graphics as the original, but is actually more like the 2023 version in its playing attributes than it's original namesake.

 

The original shaft is much more stout than either of the more recent versions.  I'd say the 00's version flexes more like a Stiff+ while the other two flex closer to a Reg+.

 

Differences in digital caliper readings along the length of the shafts at many points confirm a variance in the construction between the 2013 and the OG, which no doubt helps to explain the difference in flex.  But aside from the stiffness, there's two visual ways to tell the original apart from the 2013 model.  The silver portion of the shaft on the 2013 version is a lighter color, while the OG has a slightly darker, pewter hue to it.  And although the graphics are identical, the blue portion of the shaft under the grip is 5.5" away from the "P" in "prolaunch" on the 2013, while it is only 4.5" away on the OG.

 

I didn't have access to all three at once to compare, but I did have both the 2013 and then the 2023 in hand with the OG on two separate occasions, and I can assure you that they are both softer than the OG in a similar fashion.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the 2013 and the 2023 are the exact same shaft with different paint jobs, but I never had both of these side by side to confirm.

 

Pic:  Original (2004) on top, 2013 on bottom

 

 

I hope this helps anyone who might find themselves in my situation.  Unfortunately, as I prefer the original, it looks like I'm resorted to finding a decent pull, or hunting down a N.O.S. that's been long forgotten in the back corner of someone's shop for the last 20 years.

Try to measure the SILVER part against the butt to where the BLUE starts again.
The difference should be 1.5 inch (= 1.5 longer butt section). See the post right above here for details. (Pre 2010 has 4.5" long tip, from 2010 only 3.0", but with 1.5" longer butt section all due to Bore Trough vs standard bore design heads )

[Yacho]

Yes!  It's Howard!  I knew I'd get your attention by feigning definitive expertise on a classic shaft and posting it here. 😄

 

It's great to have your contributions and resources on the case!  I'll definitely be re-checking my work, but a couple things...

 

Wouldn't it stand to reason then, that if both the OG shaft and the 2013 shaft came uncut at 46", and being of the bore-thru variety and having a longer tip section, the OG then would be the more flexible of the two?  This is contrary to my original findings - OG feels more stout.  Unfortunately, I dont have an uncut 2004 version in my possession (if I did, I wouldn't be doing any of this!), but I'll bust out the digital caliper again and try to match up the two from where the parallel section ends and get some readings down the rest of the shaft.

 

Measuring the silver section is the easy part though:

 

OG:   10.375"

2013: 11.375"

 

So, we're getting somewhere...  more to come.

 

(P.S.:  The OG shafts I'm testing are pulls.  I have two, one from a Killer Bee Stinger Plus driver, and another that is still installed in a Titleist 983k.  These measure remarkably similar.  The 2013 however, I purchased from the "bay" uncut, though from a seemingly reputable seller.  Chance of being counterfeit?  Seems unlikely that anyone would go through the trouble to fake an already economical shaft, but stranger things have happened.)

[Yacho]

... and I don't have a 2023 updated graphics PL Blue in my possession, but now I might just go run out and get one in the name of science. 

 

I was only able to give it the ol' "hand bend flex test" when I found one attached to a Callaway Rogue, but had my 983k right there to compare it with.  The 983k was stiffer, no doubt.  No strange markings on the new graphics version installed in the Callaway...  looked exactly like it does in the pics on the TT website, but possibility of a "made-for"? 

 

Shaftland is a weird place to go on vacation 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Yacho

[Howard_Jones]

43 minutes ago, Yacho said:

... and I don't have a 2023 updated graphics PL Blue in my possession, but now I might just go run out and get one in the name of science. 

 

I was only able to give it the ol' "hand bend flex test" when I found one attached to a Callaway Rogue, but had my 983k right there to compare it with.  The 983k was stiffer, no doubt.  No strange markings on the new graphics version installed in the Callaway...  looked exactly like it does in the pics on the TT website, but possibility of a "made-for"? 

 

Shaftland is a weird place to go on vacation 

 

 

Hmmm, the only "made for" versions i can recall, was PL Blue IRON shafts who was made without the micromesh graphite tech, and Ben Ross had some "made for" woods, but those ive seen was all clearly marked with the OEMs name on them.

But YES, if we compare the 4.5" tip version and its tip trim instruction for use in Standard bore, it will have 0.5" longer tip section above the hosel, compared to the 3.0" version. im NOT able to explain why, my thinking is simply that the chart TT/Grafalloy made, should fit all models, but it did not really fit the PL blue as it "should have".

Depending on how sensitive you are to flex, my thinking goes in direction of FLO lines, where its always one stiff, and one soft, PLUS we have those "flyers" or outliners who is stronger or softer than the norm.

Look at this chart i made on a random number of shafts from the same shipping.
Pay attention to the Grafalloy TOUR in S flex...its almost the same butt CPM as the same model in X flex. Your shaft could be a shaft like that, if tip trim is standard. 

The S flex TOUR (compare of 2 shafts only) had a difference of 12 CPM depending on how they was installed, and thats more than "a lot", since 0.5" tip trim only deliver 2 CPM as average. 

That means, on the paper, the "softest" would need 3 inches of tip trim (not possible)  to get the same butt CPM as the strong outliner had. if you look at the PL Blue AXIS and the outliner i found there, its 9 CPM from Strong to Weak side on the same shaft. (really BAD shaft, better quality testing from Grafalloy should have taken that shaft out as a failure from production) 

Thats why CPM tests is useful, so we can see what animal we are dealing with, so i used it as a quality check, and to make sure the shaft i sold and delivered, was as close to the shaft used for fitting as possible.

CPM test was done "label up/down" PLUS on the weak and strong FLO lines.
Some shafts has good FLO label up/down, others should never be installed with labels up or down.



Even the PFC 60 S who was a quality model, had 8 CPM or close to a full flex difference depending on install (of 5 shafts tested), so we can never assume that 2 shafts with the same labels has the same flex, they simply DONT, and i think thats why you experience what you doo.

[Yacho]

11 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Hmmm, the only "made for" versions i can recall, was PL Blue IRON shafts who was made without the micromesh graphite tech, and Ben Ross had some "made for" woods, but those ive seen was all clearly marked with the OEMs name on them.

But YES, if we compare the 4.5" tip version and its tip trim instruction for use in Standard bore, it will have 0.5" longer tip section above the hosel, compared to the 3.0" version. im NOT able to explain why, my thinking is simply that the chart TT/Grafalloy made, should fit all models, but it did not really fit the PL blue as it "should have".

Depending on how sensitive you are to flex, my thinking goes in direction of FLO lines, where its always one stiff, and one soft, PLUS we have those "flyers" or outliners who is stronger or softer than the norm.

Look at this chart i made on a random number of shafts from the same shipping.
Pay attention to the Grafalloy TOUR in S flex...its almost the same butt CPM as the same model in X flex. Your shaft could be a shaft like that, if tip trim is standard. 

The S flex TOUR (compare of 2 shafts only) had a difference of 12 CPM depending on how they was installed, and thats more than "a lot", since 0.5" tip trim only deliver 2 CPM as average. 

That means, on the paper, the "softest" would need 3 inches of tip trim (not possible)  to get the same butt CPM as the strong outliner had. if you look at the PL Blue AXIS and the outliner i found there, its 9 CPM from Strong to Weak side on the same shaft. (really BAD shaft, better quality testing from Grafalloy should have taken that shaft out as a failure from production) 

Thats why CPM tests is useful, so we can see what animal we are dealing with, so i used it as a quality check, and to make sure the shaft i sold and delivered, was as close to the shaft used for fitting as possible.

CPM test was done "label up/down" PLUS on the weak and strong FLO lines.
Some shafts has good FLO label up/down, others should never be installed with labels up or down.



Even the PFC 60 S who was a quality model, had 8 CPM or close to a full flex difference depending on install (of 5 shafts tested), so we can never assume that 2 shafts with the same labels has the same flex, they simply DONT, and i think thats why you experience what you doo.

 

Howard, you're the man.  I'm a rookie in this realm, but I love all the quirks and tiny details that can go into making golf equipment as good as possible for the user.  After 3 years of involving myself with the game of golf and it's tools, 99% of anything technical I know comes directly from WRX, and probably over 50% of it comes directly from your posts and contributions.  I feel like every WRX'er that ever had your name cross their screen should chip in $20 so you can go buy a beach house somewhere, on us.  It's the least we could do.

 

But I digress...

 

I'm aware of the concept that different orientations of the shaft can have an effect on flex.  I've got an EI-70 here that measures significantly different depending on the alignment, almost over a full flex variance.  It's hilariously nuts.

 

Knowing this, when I hold a shaft in front of me and give 'er the ol' "hand-bend taste test", I always spin it and bend it in many places, just to check.  It's amazing how slight differences like this can be noticed by mere human hands, but I guess that's the entire reason we get so detailed with this crap.  Golfers can tell the difference. 

 

Whether that actually makes a difference on the scorecard...   well, that's up for interpretation.

[Yacho]

Yes, I've already spent way too much time and thought on this for my originally desired result, but I'm in too deep now to crawl out.

 

Lined up my OG version and the "bay"-purchased 2013 at the point where the parallel section ends on both (.336"), and did some digital caliper measurements side by side in 5 different arbitrary places.  I measured to the left of every strip of tape in the pic.  Again, OG on top, 2013 on bottom.  FWIW, there's 4.5" of parallel tip on my uncut 2013.

 

 

Here's the results, starting from the butt end:

 

O.G. 2004:  .599  .549  .502  .449  .366

'Bay 2013:  .599  .540  .469  .412  .363

 

As we can see, the 2013 is noticeably thinner through the midsection.  At least, the one I have is.

 

I'm probably gonna go out and get a 2023 version today or tomorrow to nail this down.  I'm too intrigued now.

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Yacho said:

Yes, I've already spent way too much time and thought on this for my originally desired result, but I'm in too deep now to crawl out.

 

Lined up my OG version and the "bay"-purchased 2013 at the point where the parallel section ends on both (.336"), and did some digital caliper measurements side by side in 5 different arbitrary places.  I measured to the left of every strip of tape in the pic.  Again, OG on top, 2013 on bottom.  FWIW, there's 4.5" of parallel tip on my uncut 2013.

 

 

Here's the results, starting from the butt end:

 

O.G. 2004:  .599  .549  .502  .449  .366

'Bay 2013:  .599  .540  .469  .412  .363

 

As we can see, the 2013 is noticeably thinner through the midsection.  At least, the one I have is.

 

I'm probably gonna go out and get a 2023 version today or tomorrow to nail this down.  I'm too intrigued now.

 

 

There should be lots of members here who can measure their PL Blue for OD on the same spots you did, just deliver the distance from a specified print on the shaft. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:35 AM, Yacho said:

Does anyone know if the Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue available today from True Temper is the same as the original PL Blue circa 2004?  Different paint job, of course, but anything else? 

 

I ask because I may have happened upon my new favorite driver shaft by accident.  The other day, I found a battle-scarred Killer Bee Stinger plus 10° titanium driver in the barrel at my local thrift store. And with it being attached to what I knew was an aftermarket shaft from a respectable company, figured it was worth my $2 to bring it home, if nothing more than to salvage the Grafalloy prolaunch blue 65S from it and try it out in some other heads.  Unfortunately, I took the driver to the range before disassembly, and after a nice warmup and a couple strips of lead tape, was absolutely mashing the Killer Bee.  Everything about the tempo and kick from the prolaunch blue was feeling awesome, perfectly well-timed to my swing, and launch was visually ideal.  Now I can't bring myself to piece it out, since it has become the new benchmark.

 

Cue my search for another PL Blue 65S to actually put a TM adapter on it and see what it can do with some newer head tech.  However...  looking at pics on auction sites of drivers equipped with the classic Prolaunch blue shaft leads me to believe that mine is actually tipped (by maybe as much as 2"!) upon installation in the Killer Bee, and to replicate the shaft feel I want at the length I prefer, I'd have to buy a new/uncut one instead of finding a pull that has been butt cut.  Harder to find the original these days, but I'm fine getting the newer version available from True temper so long as it's the same beast.  Also, can anyone give me an untipped measurement of the original version from tip to the "Y" in "Grafalloy" to confirm my suspicions?

 

Thanks! 

Over that lengthy period, components and specs have changed.  

 

I never played the Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue then, but had a Prolaunch Red in 3wd.  I opted for the original bright blue 63g Grafalloy Stiff low torque shaft, tipped then fully inserted in 905S head; that was a fantastic combo.  In retrospect, original Blue had similarities to TR Blue.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Yacho]

So I finally got a hold of a brand new uncut 2023 new graphics version, and after a bunch of tests, I'm concluding that it is, in fact, the same shaft as was offered back in 2004.  The OD's all measure the same, the stiffness measures the same, the weight checks out, and the parallel tip length matches up as well. And as for my ebay-purchased 2013 version, who knows what that is...  Made-for oem shaft?  Reg flex mismarked at the factory as a 65S?  Counterfeit?  No idea, but it's definitely no true PLBlue 65s.  And the one I found in that Cally Rogue? Not sure about that one either.  I know Top-Flite is selling a bunch of their Gamer drivers with a made-for PL Blue shaft that is graphically a virtual match to the aftermarket one, though the flex is denoted like "65 - Mens" instead of the "65S" on the real deal.  Maybe the one in the Callaway was like that?  I can't be certain at this point.

 

Anyways, at least I got to the end of this rabbit hole, and the whole experience just reinforced what a messed-up world golf shafts and golf equipment marketing can be if you don't know exactly where to look and what to look for.  Crazy.

 

I've edited my previous posts to hopefully dispel any confusion and to avoid the chance of any future readers taking away any misinformation as fact.