Tobacco Road, Pine Needles, Mid Pines - Southern Pines????

[Gdane]

The off-season deal at MP/PN is one of the best values in golf.  I went last year the day the rates dropped and was blown away.  Stayed at PN, and the rooms overlooking the practice area were great.  They're not new but are fairly large rooms and walking distance to breakfast in the main lodge.  We paid around $350 for 3 days of golf, 2 nights on property and hot breakfast.  I think its something like $1200 if we had gone a week earlier.

 

That Southern Pines area is so charming; would love to end up down there when I finally walk away from the corporate world.  My vote for the best of the 3 PN, MP, SP is Mid Pines in a land slide.

 

Finally, Tobacco Road. Some love, some hate it.  For me, its a must-play one time....I've played it once and think that is enough for me.  Tot Hill on the other hand is one of my all-time favorites.  

[BG5]

16 hours ago, Gdane said:

The off-season deal at MP/PN is one of the best values in golf.  I went last year the day the rates dropped and was blown away.  Stayed at PN, and the rooms overlooking the practice area were great.  They're not new but are fairly large rooms and walking distance to breakfast in the main lodge.  We paid around $350 for 3 days of golf, 2 nights on property and hot breakfast.  I think its something like $1200 if we had gone a week earlier.

 

That Southern Pines area is so charming; would love to end up down there when I finally walk away from the corporate world.  My vote for the best of the 3 PN, MP, SP is Mid Pines in a land slide.

 

Finally, Tobacco Road. Some love, some hate it.  For me, its a must-play one time....I've played it once and think that is enough for me.  Tot Hill on the other hand is one of my all-time favorites.  

 

Yes my quote this year is 3 rounds of golf....Pine Needles, Mid Pines and Southern Pines, and two nights stay plus a breakfast each morning for $362 out the door.  Tobacco Road at that time is $105 so I plan to do my entire trip for about $550 including getting there since I can drive.  Ill go a bit cheaper on food to keep my wife happy but for $500 and playing 4 courses in the top 100 is just an insane deal.

 

Playing in the off season is a great way to knock out some of the best courses in the country.  I have played Whistling Straits the past few years for $195 and usually add on same day replay at Blackwolf Run River course for $45 🙂

 

I played 53 holes at Sand Valley in the early season a year or two ago for $222 out the door 🙂

 

I have a limited pocket book so taking advantage of off season rates is a great deal for guys like me

[StudentGolfer4]

Sounds like a great trip. The one thing I would caution you about is don’t plan on being able to play 36. There really just isn’t enough daylight unless you can time it perfectly. It’ll be daylight from 8-5:30 or so. On top of that, the chance of a frost delay is significant. Not saying it can’t be done but there are a lot of variables out of your control. 
 

As others have said, be prepared for the weather and just make the best of it. I’ve done a winter pinehurst trip, had great weather and would recommend it. My dad went with a group, had terrible weather and says never again in December-January. If I recall you’re from Michigan so cold weather golf won’t be anything new to you!

[TroyB123]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:41 PM, allparz said:

Can confirm Pine Needle, Mid Pines and Southern Pines GC all are overseeded..

Just got back from a junior tournament at Pine Needles/Mid Pines.  Mid Pines overseeded their fairways and looked great.   

 

Pine Needles only overseeds their tee boxes.  Fairways were still holding a bit of color in patches, but losing it.  I heard they may paint them soon, but they're playing great.

[BG5]

Any updates on current course conditions....I dont expect much as long as its somewhat playable but totally understand its the off season

[1156golf]

Played Pine Needles and Mid Pines last week.  Good conditions both courses.

[Florida Gator]

I played Tobacco Road on the 18th or 19th after 2” of rain the day before, aside from the standing water in several bunkers and low areas that were to be expected, its in great shape.  I’ve played Southern Pines a few times this last month and its in great shape.  Playing Mid-Pines and Pine Needles this weekend, I’ll let you all know what its like there.

[bluedot]

20 hours ago, Florida Gator said:

I played Tobacco Road on the 18th or 19th after 2” of rain the day before, aside from the standing water in several bunkers and low areas that were to be expected, its in great shape.  I’ve played Southern Pines a few times this last month and its in great shape.  Playing Mid-Pines and Pine Needles this weekend, I’ll let you all know what its like there.

Both are in great shape.  Mid Pines is overseeded, Pine Needles is not.  It’s been warm enough so that the roots of the Bermuda haven’t gone completely dormant yet, so the conditions are still really good, especially in the Sandhills.

[Florida Gator]

On 12/25/2023 at 11:11 AM, bluedot said:

Both are in great shape.  Mid Pines is overseeded, Pine Needles is not.  It’s been warm enough so that the roots of the Bermuda haven’t gone completely dormant yet, so the conditions are still really good, especially in the Sandhills.

Southern is overseeded as well, plays longer than it would with just the Bermuda, that winter rye is a wet grass that needs water plus they grow it a bit longer than the Bermuda.  I’d prefer playing on the dormant turf but I’m still playing year round!

[bluedot]

10 hours ago, Florida Gator said:

Southern is overseeded as well, plays longer than it would with just the Bermuda, that winter rye is a wet grass that needs water plus they grow it a bit longer than the Bermuda.  I’d prefer playing on the dormant turf but I’m still playing year round!

I’m not a fan of overseeding, either.  It isn’t a great playing surface, and greenskeepers hate it.  They spend all winter watering, seeding, and mowing when they could have the crew doing other stuff, and it also slows up the Bermuda coming back in the spring.  And it costs a lot of money.  Almost no private clubs do it; it’s usually courses attached to a real estate development, or a place counting on snowbirds for winter revenue.

 

Dormant Bermuda gets really messy late in the winter, especially on clay base courses, so the Sandhills fare better.  But I still prefer enduring the mud season on dormant Bermuda to overseed.

[dcmidnight]

I just cant say enough good things about Pine Needles. Honestly even with all the love it gets, I still think its severely underrated. 

 

If you put Pine Needles and Mid Pines in any other town it would be a destination golf trip just to play those two courses. 

[bluedot]

52 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

I just cant say enough good things about Pine Needles. Honestly even with all the love it gets, I still think its severely underrated. 

 

If you put Pine Needles and Mid Pines in any other town it would be a destination golf trip just to play those two courses. 

While everything else in the area is overshadowed at least somewhat by the club, especially #2 and #4, I think Mid Pines and Pine Needles ARE destination courses for a lot of golfers, and Southern Pines being added just enhances that.

 

I will say this, though; I think the USGA really screwed up Pine Needles when the used decorative grasses to tighten the landing areas before the women’s open, at least in terms of how Ross intended the course to play.  Ross was all about width off the tee so ams could play the course, then increasing complexity as you got closer to the green, and with a “favored”:side of the fairway for the approach shot to challenge better players.

 

A great example of this is #18; that green is designed to be best approached from the left side of the fairway, but the plantings now effectively force you to play down the right side.  Not only that, but the plantings introduce an element of randomness; a worse drive can end up better if the better struck ball ends up behind or just beside one of those clumps.  
 

I think Ross would object to this, and TO ME it makes PN a lot less fun and interesting to play than it used to be.  I used to consider it a coin flip as to whether I liked PN or MP better; now it’s Mid Pines, hands down.  Just one guy’s opinion…

[Looper34]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:00 AM, bluedot said:

A great example of this is #18; that green is designed to be best approached from the left side of the fairway, but the plantings now effectively force you to play down the right side.  Not only that, but the plantings introduce an element of randomness; a worse drive can end up better if the better struck ball ends up behind or just beside one of those clumps.   think Ross would object to this, and TO ME it makes PN a lot less fun and interesting to play than it used to be.  I used to consider it a coin flip as to whether I liked PN or MP better; now it’s Mid Pines, hands down.  Just one guy’s opinion…

Agree to disagree on PN #18 which is a great finishing hole. It’s a risk reward tee shot and you need to carry the left side trap to take advantage of the long downhill fairway which is larger than it seems from the tee box. The vegetation off the left and right side of the fairway/rough is supposed to be penal and you see it on plenty of occasions throughout Pine Needles but also on PH #2, Mid Pines and Southern Pines.  

 

However, I’m not a fan of the straw grass/plantings in the bunkers on some of the area Ross designs. It doesn’t make sense to me and seems like overkill. For example on Mid Pines #10 (par 5) there is straw grass randomly planted in both the fairway AND green side bunkers. I’ve been hung up in the straw grass more than once off the tee in that damn right side fairway bunker and actually had to take an unplayable once from the straw grass in the green side bunker on the same hole. 

 

I guess the lesson is stay out of the traps but easier said than done.

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, Looper34 said:

Agree to disagree on PN #18 which is a great finishing hole. It’s a risk reward tee shot and you need to carry the left side trap to take advantage of the long downhill fairway which is larger than it seems from the tee box. The vegetation off the left and right side of the fairway/rough is supposed to be penal and you see it on plenty of occasions throughout Pine Needles but also on PH #2, Mid Pines and Southern Pines.  

 

However, I’m not a fan of the straw grass/plantings in the bunkers on some of the area Ross designs. It doesn’t make sense to me and seems like overkill. For example on Mid Pines #10 (par 5) there is straw grass randomly planted in both the fairway AND green side bunkers. I’ve been hung up in the straw grass more than once off the tee in that damn right side fairway bunker and actually had to take an unplayable once from the straw grass in the green side bunker on the same hole. 

 

I guess the lesson is stay out of the traps but easier said than done.

Oh, make no mistake about it; I also think 18 at PN is a great finishing hole.  I just don’t think it plays the way Ross intended it to play anymore.  

 

The bunker on the left is visually intimidating, and there is a risk-reward element, depending on which tees you are playing.  Before the USGA added the grasses beyond the bunker, a good drive that carried the bunker gave an approach into a green designed to favor an approach from the left.  The right side of the fairway is safer, but the approach angle isn’t as good. 
 

You’re right that the grasses the USGA added are “penal”, at least potentially, and that’s also where the randomness comes in.  But Ross didn’t do a lot of penal stuff off the tee; his designs were about width off the tee; that’s why there are almost no original Ross holes with water fronting the green.  Bunkers are heroic; water is penal.  
 

#10 at MP is at least a somewhat different discussion because it’s a reachable par 5 for good players. But it becomes a 3 shot hole for sure if you miss the fairway, especially in the left fairway bunker because of the high lip.  Like you, I’m not a fan of the plantings inside bunkers, especially green side; that hole is so beautifully bunkered around the green that the plantings detract from what Ross built.  And that’s a shame really.

 

[renobleiii]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:50 PM, Gdane said:

The off-season deal at MP/PN is one of the best values in golf.  I went last year the day the rates dropped and was blown away.  Stayed at PN, and the rooms overlooking the practice area were great.  They're not new but are fairly large rooms and walking distance to breakfast in the main lodge.  We paid around $350 for 3 days of golf, 2 nights on property and hot breakfast.  I think its something like $1200 if we had gone a week earlier.

 

That Southern Pines area is so charming; would love to end up down there when I finally walk away from the corporate world.  My vote for the best of the 3 PN, MP, SP is Mid Pines in a land slide.

 

Finally, Tobacco Road. Some love, some hate it.  For me, its a must-play one time....I've played it once and think that is enough for me.  Tot Hill on the other hand is one of my all-time favorites.  

What time of year was this? When do the rates drop in fall/winter? 
 

edit: and who did you book through?

Edited December 30, 2023 by renobleiii

[Gdane]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:35 PM, renobleiii said:

What time of year was this? When do the rates drop in fall/winter? 
 

edit: and who did you book through?

We went last year on Monday the week of Thanksgiving which was the first day of the rate change, and booked directly through Pine Needles Resort.  

[Florida Gator]

Played Mid Pines on Friday, and Pine Needles earlier today, both are in great shape.  Greens are dormant and rolling fast as lightning, easily 11 plus.

 

Mid Pines is playing LONG with the overseeded conditions, 6500 plays 600-700 yards longer when its cold like its been lately.  

 

Pine Needles Bermuda is dormant and all a uniform tan color now in the fairways and the rough (what little there is). Tee boxes are overseeded and look great.  I was able to get a number of drives out there in the 280+ range in 48 degree weather, fairways are tight and firm.  

 

Couldn’t be happier with these courses now.  

[Titleist_242]

Hello and thank you in advance, can anyone comment on the course conditions and general weather late may at pinehurst?

[caniac6]

40 minutes ago, Titleist_242 said:

Hello and thank you in advance, can anyone comment on the course conditions and general weather late may at pinehurst?

Conditions should be pretty good. Weather should also be good, but it could be hot. Might be a bit early to punch bermuda greens, I would definitely check. It would be very close to time. With the US Open coming mid June, I would imagine #2 will be off limits.

[Faucette]

No one is punching at this time. Courses will be in good shape.  Weather probably in the 80-90 range with outside chance plus 90. A good time to visit as long as that temp suits. 

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, Faucette said:

No one is punching at this time. Courses will be in good shape.  Weather probably in the 80-90 range with outside chance plus 90. A good time to visit as long as that temp suits. 

Agreed.  The normal schedule for punching Bermuda greens is well into June, or even July; nobody punches Bermuda in May. 
 

Ever now and then, we have a spring in NC where the Bermuda greens up late; last spring was one of those.  But even then, by May conditions should be good.

[cer5059]

Does anyone know how Tobacco Road punches their greens? Planning a trip to the area Labor day weekend. Looks like we'll be playing 8 or 9 days after they are aerated. Do they do the small punches so that they'll probably be mostly healed by then or do they do the full punch and dress them with sand?

[sodak77]

Playing this set of courses this Fall and really looking forward to it.  Does anyone know what the cart policy is at PN, MP and SP?  Is it mainly walking / cart path only or can carts be driven in fairways?  Thanks.

[Atwsc7]

On 2/11/2024 at 8:50 AM, cer5059 said:

Does anyone know how Tobacco Road punches their greens? Planning a trip to the area Labor day weekend. Looks like we'll be playing 8 or 9 days after they are aerated. Do they do the small punches so that they'll probably be mostly healed by then or do they do the full punch and dress them with sand?

They usually aerate the last week in June...I just looked it up. I don't think they'll be a great shape in 8 days 

Edited February 27, 2024 by Atwsc7

[cer5059]

22 minutes ago, Atwsc7 said:

They usually aerate the last week in June...I just looked it up. I don't think they'll be a great shape in 8 days 

Thanks for the reply! From their website, looks like it will be mid-August this year. Got our trip booked today and we're playing there on the 31st, so 9 days after they are punched. Probably won't be the best, but still looking forward to it.

 

Tobacco Road will be closed for course aerification July 15-19, 2024 and greens aerification August 19-22, 2024. Conditions will improve daily after these closures;

[Looper34]

7 hours ago, sodak77 said:

Playing this set of courses this Fall and really looking forward to it.  Does anyone know what the cart policy is at PN, MP and SP?  Is it mainly walking / cart path only or can carts be driven in fairways?  Thanks.

Southern Pines, Pine Needles and Mid Pines are all very walkable and I would say Mid Pines is the easiest to walk. Unless there has been a lot of rain you can drive to your ball on most balls. 

[Florida Gator]

6 hours ago, cer5059 said:

Thanks for the reply! From their website, looks like it will be mid-August this year. Got our trip booked today and we're playing there on the 31st, so 9 days after they are punched. Probably won't be the best, but still looking forward to it.

 

Tobacco Road will be closed for course aerification July 15-19, 2024 and greens aerification August 19-22, 2024. Conditions will improve daily after these closures;

These courses will only aerate once per year, and its typically larger tines for this.  They also have to punch the course when the Bermuda is not dormant so it heals.  Rain helps considerably, but its a couple weeks of plinko before the greens roll true again.

[Florida Gator]

4 minutes ago, Looper34 said:

Southern Pines, Pine Needles and Mid Pines are all very walkable and I would say Mid Pines is the easiest to walk. Unless there has been a lot of rain you can drive to your ball on most balls. 

I walk them all.  I do agree that Mid Pines is the easiest.  Southern is the toughest walk in my opinion but its not bad at all and probably the best chunk of land in the area for a golf course.  

[cer5059]

2 hours ago, Florida Gator said:

These courses will only aerate once per year, and its typically larger tines for this.  They also have to punch the course when the Bermuda is not dormant so it heals.  Rain helps considerably, but its a couple weeks of plinko before the greens roll true again.

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like we're going to have some bumpy greens, but it's definitely a course we want to play, so we'll deal with it 

[driveandputtmachine]

On 11/15/2023 at 1:49 PM, Chirodad said:

Love this discussion - we head to Myrtle Beach every year in April, and are looking into other destinations. This rotation, with Tobacco Road looks perfect.

We do a trip to Pinehurst ever year late April early May, and are looking next year to possibly Pawleys because the pricing has started getting crazy in Pinehurst.