Elite Golf Schools

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

Exactly.

 

It's crazy how this idea has been propagated.  It's a 23% difference in closure.  These guys are moving their irons at 100mph.  There's no way you can convince me that an average golfer, or ANY golfer for that matter, should strive to close the face 20% slower to hit it more accurately.  

 

It's total nonsense.

 

Yes.

 

It's also important to look at the rates: two nearly identical* swings could vary wildly in the rate of closure if the only difference in those swings is the speed at which they're moving.

 

In other words, amateurs often have a lower "rate of closure" if it's measured in RPM or °/sec or something… because they move the club a shorter distance over that time.

 

Degrees per distance (P6 to P8, per foot one foot before impact, etc.) are non-time (and thus speed) based ways of looking at the numbers.

[MPStrat]

Shauheen N made a pretty good post covering this topic in a more common sense manner and how people in the real world look at rate of closure or as he says “‘more

active vs more passive releases “
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0PYFPLpEq0/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==

[Zitlow]

16 hours ago, Deadaimz said:

 

 

I have more success supinating and pronating than with this style of release. And to me it feels more stable pronating and supinating than flexion extension of the wrists.

 

For me I have to keep rotating through the ball because if I quit on it my forearms flip over.  

 

At 1:31 into the video Rory demonstrates the drill he says he does everyday.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Zitlow

[MPStrat]

16 hours ago, Deadaimz said:

 

 

I have more success supinating and pronating than with this style of release. And to me it feels more stable pronating and supinating than flexion extension of the wrists.

The majority of amateur golfers will never need to try to force the trail wrist from extension to flexion or lead wrist from flexion to extension portion of the release on purpose.  Also, trying to force flexion of the trail wrist from p6 to p8 as a substitute for proper arm rotation is a death move that no one good does. 

[Carlito]

The supination move with the right arm in the Elite Golf Schools  video is mainly a shallower. 
Less to do with club face rotation.

 

3 hours ago, iacas said:

"rate of closure"

... in every golf swing but not necessarily to close a open club face?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Carlito

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

The majority of amateur golfers will never need to try to force the trail wrist from extension to flexion or lead wrist from flexion to extension portion of the release on purpose.  Also, trying to force flexion of the trail wrist from p6 to p8 as a substitute for proper arm rotation is a death move that no one good does. 

 

To your point, nobody should ever be actively moving their trail wrist from extension to flexion. The proper release of the trail wrist extension is all passive from the clubhead speed exceeding the hands, so it drags that trail wrist with from extension to flexion. 

[Carlito]

4 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

MOST amateurs struggle to close their face and they hit it weak right.  That's why I say these guys at Elite Golf Schools are teaching a death move for the vast majority of Amateurs.  Heck, even top level players or pros may get screwed up with their teachings.  

These guys are teaching a square club face. Most amateurs open their club face  and react to a steep position.

These guys show you to avoid it, if you take the time and watch one of their videos.

[MK7Golf21]

5 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Yes by how you’re defining casting, but some people define it differently. 
 

I also want to be clear, that there are some people who very much need to the club to fall more behind them and the feel of ulnar deviation can help and it’s not just a feel, there is some that is happening in “good” swings. But the point is that it’s easy to overdo it for many and those people actually ulnar too much. I have heard that you can’t overdo this if you ulnar deviate in the “proper” direction but that’s where I disagree. It can be overdone in any direction. 

 

yea my definition is of casting is just like having a fishing rod at the top and throwing the line out in a cast, uncocking the wrists. I think the move is fine, my feel with it is a bit tame at the top though. I don't like casting the clubhead behind me either from the top to like an 8 o clock direction, that gets me way too dumped under, low point too behind and pull hook city with the long stuff. You see a lot of that in the no cast thread with driver/woods etc. probably the number 1 complaint I see. However, I will say I do feel some casting and use of the arms in the downswing, maybe more so than body for me.

[NoCalHack]

3 hours ago, Carlito said:

These guys are teaching a square club face. Most amateurs open their club face  and react to a steep position.

These guys show you to avoid it, if you take the time and watch one of their videos.

 

Respectfully, every golf instructor teaches square clubface at impact. There’s nothing novel about that. 
 

These guys seem to feel that the way to get there is passive hands and an active body. 
 

We can agree to disagree. Most amateurs would not benefit from this swing thought. In my opinion. 

[Doodlebug87]

8 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

 

Respectfully, every golf instructor teaches square clubface at impact. There’s nothing novel about that. 
 

These guys seem to feel that the way to get there is passive hands and an active body. 
 

We can agree to disagree. Most amateurs would not benefit from this swing thought. In my opinion. 

 

Following these guys has completely changed my ball flight, consistency and overall swing mechanics for the better. Just an observation but the people with negative views have probably just written them off as Milo lines replicas, without having digested their content. They don't teach passive hands or arms and actually have a lot in common with Monte for instance....

[Zitlow]

There are a wide variety of styles. Look at the contrasting styles of Tony Finau and Rickie Fowler. If Rickie tried to swing like Tony and Tony tried to swing like Rickie neither one of them could probably break 80. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

If Rickie tried to swing like Tony and Tony tried to swing like Rickie neither one of them could probably break 80. 

 

I'd take that bet.

 

 

There's a huge gap between "unable to break 80" and "the best chance of shooting 64." In other words, they won't play their best golf with a "foreign" swing, but they still know how to get the club on the back of the ball. It's why even regular lessons can start to hit the ball really well even five minutes in despite the club coming from a spot that's two feet different at P6 or something.

 

(And I'm not saying Vijay can break 80 as a lefty, just that those guys are good… to the point where he has an enviable swing from the complete opposite side of the ball. Make Vijay swing like David Duval or whomever as a righty… and I think he's gonna break 80.)

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by iacas

[CSagan]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHNmwxvA6PB/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
 

wonder if rickie could break 80 with that swing 😁 long irons might be a little suspect. 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, CSagan said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHNmwxvA6PB/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
 

wonder if rickie could break 80 with that swing 😁 long irons might be a little suspect. 

Tough angle to see everything but to me there are a lot of similarities to Rickie’s normal swing other than the exaggerated looping takeaway to top of backswing that makes it look so different. 

 

The point is there is a big difference between exaggerating an idiosyncrasy into a players normal motion and actually truly copying another golfers swing. Most pros couldn’t even accomplish authentically copying another tour pros swing let alone breaking 80 with it.

 

(Not saying you are making that claim)

[Carlito]

 

 

 

 

Personal top 3. 

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, Carlito said:

 

 

 

 

Personal top 3. 

The first video about the backswing is excellent. I believe understanding this concept is one of the most important things in the golf swing. They go deeper on this in other videos.
 

I tend to agree more with how AMG teaches extension of the trail hip in the downswing vs Elite’s preference of “rotating in flexion”. Elite’s sacrum move is extremely easy to misunderstand for amateur golfers.
 

In general I think what they are teaching about the release is more of a feel for golfers who need to calm down the rotation of the clubface so that the release better matches improved body movements. 

[Simpsonia]

New video came out this morning that I really like. It's mostly reiterating the Dr. Kwon movement pattern. I also really like @9:00 or so they talk about how important language is, and how it's on them as instructors to diagnose how each individual student absorbs the language they use and adjust as necessary. 

 

 

[scotee]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0YUmTKtsC1/

 

One more

[Doodlebug87]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:50 PM, scotee said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0YUmTKtsC1/

 

One more

For anybody who doubts that these guys teach active hands and arms..... He's a great teacher and the kids face after implementing the feel was wholesome 

[NikeGolferTX]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:45 PM, NoCalHack said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0NNyGDu_ve/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

That’s their latest instagram. Man I don’t know. It seems they follow the same philosophy as Gankas and Milo Lines.  I follow these guys on instagram and maybe if works for some but not for me. 
 

This “square the club with the body” idea seems to go against what I see most good golfers do. Like Tiger and Rory. For me it’s a recipe for weak right shots. 
 

What I find funny is that they show videos where they demonstrate the move. Which is to basically not release the hands at all and turn the body. And when they actually swing, of course they are releasing the club. I know it’s exaggerated but watch the kid swing. You cannot hit the ball from the position he rehearses. 
 

I know it’s feel vs real. But to me when I try this I get stuck and hit weak shots. I’d bet that this swing thought would ruin more swings than it helps. 
 

 

The 'square the club with the body' concept works well for me but I think it's misunderstood. I can hit the ball from the position he rehearses.

 

It's not that you're refraining from releasing, its releasing differently. You have to use loads of trail arm adduction and upper body rotation through impact instead of throwing the weight of the clubhead at the ball with arm extension.

 

With a roll release the lead arm/shoulder moves externally, with this release the lead arm abducts off the chest and to the left side of your body (right handed golfer).

Edited December 6, 2023 by NikeGolferTX

[Carlito]

10 hours ago, NikeGolferTX said:

The 'square the club with the body' concept works well for me but I think it's misunderstood.

 

Agree! As long as you pivoting the arms (upper- and forearm) are able to rotate and retain the desired wrist conditions at impact.

If you stop pivoting  the arm rotations come to a stop and you have to throw... 

 

Quote from another thread... 

Quote

The pivot must be used as a carrier of the swing that moves the arms/hands. It is the pivot that allows the golfer to actually retain the bent-back condition of the right wrist (which in-turn retains the flat left wrist). Some people focus on their trail wrist and some focus on their lead wrist to get the job done - whichever works best for the individual. However, without the pivot doing its job the lead wrist will breakdown every time.

 

[NikeGolferTX]

6 hours ago, Carlito said:

 

Agree! As long as you pivoting the arms (upper- and forearm) are able to rotate and retain the desired wrist conditions at impact.

If you stop pivoting  the arm rotations come to a stop and you have to throw... 

 

Quote from another thread... 

 

Yeah if you stop rotating or you try to square it with the arms then it will never work.

 

EGS just posted this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0jp2h9sQV1/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

[Doodlebug87]

 

New video is up - interesting take, especially the start of the backswing 

[Carlito]

12 hours ago, Doodlebug87 said:

especially the start of the backswing 

 

Comment from YT... 

Quote

this was a bit confusing. what i got out of it but maybe im wrong is that dont move your right hip behind you at the start of the backswing and spiral up. Instead shift weight onto your right foot a little with the hip still closed and then sprial up and then the right hip goes behind you.

Ok, don't turn your pelvis immediately. Shift the slight counterclockwise orientation of the pelvis to the right (pressure shift).

Now you create space and time for transition. Am i right?  Thanks. 

[Zitlow]

This is a cheap and effective backswing trainer. It syncs up the body, arms and hands. It's modeled after the Sure Set and is about $25-$30 on Amazon. 

 

[Doodlebug87]

Another video dropped, this time about low point. Very clear and some good nuggets which again demonstrate how aligned their view is to concepts like NTC. I would love these guys to make a video with Monte but after the AMG ML debacle it's likely not feasible!

 

 

[NikeGolferTX]

1 hour ago, Doodlebug87 said:

Another video dropped, this time about low point. Very clear and some good nuggets which again demonstrate how aligned their view is to concepts like NTC. I would love these guys to make a video with Monte but after the AMG ML debacle it's likely not feasible!

 

 

What I've found strange about AMG is if I engage the feels they teach such as get the trail arm down and move laterally, it causes me to slide and flip.

 

If I engage in the feels that EGS/MILO teach it ends up looking like the 3D examples AMG shows.

 

I think the disconnect between styles is that instructors like EGS, Milo and Gankas are teaching SUPER exaggerated feels and a lot of people take it literally as if they need to hit those positions when that's not really what they're expecting.

Edited December 14, 2023 by NikeGolferTX

[Phabs]

Funny i've taken a few lessons from these guys.  I really only go see them when i'm in the weeds with my swing and they get it straightened out...  The video's are overly techy with too much fancy language for me 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, NikeGolferTX said:

What I've found strange about AMG is if I engage the feels they teach such as get the trail arm down and move laterally, it causes me to slide and flip.

 

If I engage in the feels that EGS/MILO teach it ends up looking like the 3D examples AMG shows.

 

That's just "feel ain't real" or you're REALLY exaggerating the AMG stuff. They wouldn't have your hips going so far forward you'd call it a "slide," and if you don't keep turning (perhaps because you slide too far 😄), you might flip.

 

4 hours ago, NikeGolferTX said:

I think the disconnect between styles is that instructors like EGS, Milo and Gankas are teaching SUPER exaggerated feels and a lot of people take it literally as if they need to hit those positions when that's not really what they're expecting.

 

I'd disagree; they're not teaching an exaggerated version of the same thing. They're teaching a different way of hitting the ball.

[scotee]

Short, not technical.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C02USquhxXK/