JM VSP closed stance chipping

[Deadaimz]

So much to take in on the 4 part vsp video from Mayo. I never would have thought that a closed stance would be a good thing. I'll have to give it a shot. Any other takes from the videos?

[iacas]

Years ago people wouldn't dream of playing a bunker shot with a square stance, and yet… that's how many people play a standard bunker shot these days.

 

You might get more responses in the existing topic: 

 

 

[Deadaimz]

I've read the thread. I feel Joesph Mayo deserves his own thread for his patreon followers.

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, Deadaimz said:

I've read the thread. I feel Joesph Mayo deserves his own thread for his patreon followers.

 

Okay.

 

And also, not sure why I got like three links in that one post of mine. 🤣

[Santiago Golf]

I have been closed stance short game shot since James Oh popped up on insta gram in 2016

[CasualLie]

JM's stuff is great.  However, like many others, just because you "geek" out on some numbers doesn't mean everyone else will appreciate it.  But credit to Joe, he pretty much says it's not "new" stuff, he's just putting some numbers behind well known ideas.

 

The video was a long explanation that can be summed up as open stance has a tendency to bring in fat shots.  Why?  There's more chance you will right tilt when trying to re route the club to target.  With a closed stance re routing the club tends to steepen the shaft which helps get that down angle Joe's looking for.  

 

And you know what?  From my experience he's right; when I start to miss my low point, sure enough, my stance has been creeping open as I tend to like that "view".  I don't know if I'm right-tilting, I don't think so, but the shaft is flattening a bit.

 

And if I remember right from a Monte clinic, it's been awhile, Monte also is a proponent of a closed stance, but with a more ball forward position, it's more to help with shallowing/ use the bounce.

 

Personally, one of the areas I would like to see more video on is a focus on hand path.  When you're asking a golfer to get more steep, there's a right way of doing this and a wrong way.  I suppose that's why I also like Dan Grieve's videos with a focus on release.

 

Last point, Dan Grieve's release one, Monte's bump and run, Joe's chip, Utley's chip... And so on...while Joe is educating us all on spin loft, and has some great videos from the tour, I suspect when it comes to teaching the chip (not pitch!), most instructors are saying the same thing just different ways.

 

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

The video was a long explanation that can be summed up as open stance has a tendency to bring in fat shots.  Why?  There's more chance you will right tilt when trying to re route the club to target.  With a closed stance re routing the club tends to steepen the shaft which helps get that down angle Joe's looking for.  

 

And you know what?  From my experience he's right; when I start to miss my low point, sure enough, my stance has been creeping open as I tend to like that "view".  I don't know if I'm right-tilting, I don't think so, but the shaft is flattening a bit.

 

I've found that open stances tend to also effectively put the ball back in the arc, so you right tilt a bit to launch it with the loft and ground interaction you seek… it's a big part of why some people really like playing bunker shots square (open the face and lower the handle if you want more loft, I'm among this group generally) and some people like the open stance method. I prefer the square one because it's easier to tell where the ball will come out laterally, whereas when your path is across the ball it's gonna vary a little bit.

 

Anyway, yeah, open stance often -> ball back in the arc -> right side tilt to create the impact conditions you like. A square to slightly closed stance keeps the ball more central or even slightly forward in your stance.

 

FWIW I measured my regular low checking shots… and they were about 9-12° down. I think for a lot of people, and I have said this already I think, that their normal shots are already about 10° down, they just don't know it, so they hear 10° down and think they're only 5° or something, so they've gotta hit down more. 10° down isn't a LOT.

 

And… it's just another shot to add to the arsenal. Not even Viktor hits every short game shot like this; maybe not even a majority. I think I saw where Brian Gay says he does it like 5 or 10% of the time (I don't know if that's true, just that I think I recall reading it).

 

So… yeah. I encourage everyone to go out and measure some of their shots, and see what they're creating. They might already be 10° down. Or can get there pretty quickly.

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And… it's just another shot to add to the arsenal. Not even Viktor hits every short game shot like this; maybe not even a majority. I think I saw where Brian Gay says he does it like 5 or 10% of the time (I don't know if that's true, just that I think I recall reading it).

 

I watched a lot of Viktor at the DP Tour championships, and my impression was that he hit the "low" checker surprisingly often, like to greens above him with the pin quite near the front, and he often stopped it short. He seems to spin it more than most of his peers, although there are definitely other guys that rip it too.

 

He plays all the shots, he can hit the high one, ground first contact etc., but I get the impression that if the lie and obstacle situation allows (e.g. good to tight lie, no bunker that has to be flopped over), he will go low spinner.

 

The reason I put "low" in quotes is that while I know you know what 26-29 launch looks like, a lot of people hear "low" and picture a back-foot 8 iron worm-burner. It's simply low for a 60 and either what a lot people already play without realising it (as you mention) or how a lot of people typically launch it with their 54 or 56.

[iacas]

Yeah it may be his go to. I don’t watch a lot. But he and everyone else have different shots they can hit, and this one doesn’t solve everything.

 

Another video out there talks about whether you stop a ball with spin or trajectory. For many, trajectory is more predictable.

 

Good to have many shots available to you.

[ALIF]

For most my life I've been the guy that stops the ball with trajectory. However in some situations it feels unpredictable and the low spinner feels more predictable. I think for me it's totally situation dependent. Sometimes the high floater is better and sometimes the low spinner is better. It is nice to have a quiver full of arrows to choose from.

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, ALIF said:

It is nice to have a quiver full of arrows to choose from.

 

That's what it's about, yeah.

 

When I visited Pinehurst in October I hit it more often than I would have otherwise, just because it was the topic of discussion, but I think people just don't realize how much 10° down is. It's less than 2 minutes on a clock (12°).

[Deadaimz]

I prefer shooting darts (low spinners). This is one area I have struggled with and the way Mayo explains it has made me some what proficient around the greens. To me it is far more forgiving than the use the bounce method which ended up in chunks and skulls for me more than good shots.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Deadaimz

[vman]

Bobby Locke was a wonderful closed stance chipper and pitcher.