Who Can Putt Well with Any Putter? Why?

[jda]

I don't understand all of this face balance, toe hang, broomstick, MOI, etc. talk.  I know what all of them mean and what they do, but I just don't see how any of them help to sink putts if you cannot already sink putts.  Sure, I have preferences, but I feel like I could have the same results with randomly selected putter.

 

For those that are similar, do you explain this by having a neutral stroke, being able to read greens or good field of vision and spacial awareness/depth perception?  For me, I can read greens pretty well and also align a putt standing over the ball without a mark or anything... basically nothing to do with the putter.

[nosil]

Id say it depends on your beliefs associated with putting.  There are multiple camps:

• the putter has influence over the players stroke and the player should find the putter that fits those tendencies
• Pick a putter you like the look of and adjust your stroke to fit what the putter is trying to throughout the stroke
• putter doesn’t matter and has no influence on the stroke; putting skills are what control how effective you are as a putter.  

[Itsjustagame]

How many putters have you actually tried?

For many people the putter does make a difference.

You have simplified putting for yourself, which is great but probaly not going to work for everone.

[BHI 99]

I think it’s more about the neck. Double bend, plumbers, or slant. But as I work my way around all 3, one still hasn’t risen to the top.

 

Yet.

Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.  😉

[SEP1006]

I'm pretty lucky I guess. As long as I like the looks of the putter I can putt pretty good. Short game has always been my strong point. And good thing to because my Driver is definitely my weak point. 

 

Anyway to me putting is just confidence. This is the only part of my game that I never practice either. I'm afraid if I practice I may start putting bad and lose my confidence si I just leave it alone.

 

 

[millerj]

15 minutes ago, BHI 99 said:

I think it’s more about the neck. Double bend, plumbers, or slant. But as I work my way around all 3, one still hasn’t risen to the top.

 

Yet.

Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.  😉

To add I think it's all about the toe hang, I am a notorious pusher of the ball when I putt so having something be more face balanced has helped my putting tremendously. Alternatively if you pull the ball you're likely better off with something with more toe hang.

[gripandrip]

For me its weight. I have various putters... various toe hang, face balanced,,, and all but one are about the same head weight. I occasionally move between putters, but usually gravitate back to a slant neck Rossie, with just a little toe hang. My miss is a slight pull and this seems to help. But I could probably adjust to any of them... I'm a decent putter, but maybe not as fine tuned as some.

[H-TownBomber]

100% depends on stroke. I think that this whole lie angle balance revolution and the 700 dollar putter is kind of wild but I get it. I have a very neutral stroke, back and through on the same line, however I do not get along at all with neutral balanced putters. I also don't get along with super toe weighted putters either, obviously. I have tried everything and keep coming back to a blade. My putting from round to round can be a 10 stroke swing depending on the putter. It's all about what feels the most comfortably TO YOU, with your stroke. I feel so uncomfortable with anything but a blade. 

[PJE]

The OP has an interesting take.  

I think a well fit putter, including the optimal weight, hosel type, putter head type, or length for that particular golfer probably optimizes the likelihood for the golfer to sink putts. But it seems like all good putters have either instinctive ability and/or they have improved their baseline ability through repetition.

Jack and Tiger were special because they both had exceptional power and exceptional prowess on the greens. There are scads of guys who have power for days but whose putting ability is a shadow of their ball striking ability.  There are some guys who essentially live by the putter but those guys seem to be a far smaller number than the great ball striker/mediocre putter guys.

I think putting is hard for almost everybody. The sheer number of putter designs available indicates people are always searching for a solution to putting woes. 

[jda]

8 minutes ago, PJE said:

I think a well fit putter, including the optimal weight, hosel type, putter head type, or length for that particular golfer probably optimizes the likelihood for the golfer to sink putts.

 

I only partially get this.  In order to sink putts, all of those things quoted above seem way less important than having the right line and ability to get the ball on the right line and just nutting up an executing.  If this is a problem, then is the tool really that important?  If we had to choose, would you rather have a trusty putter or a for-sure read... for a million dollars you want your putter for a 10 foot putt or a line on the green for the break?  Give me the line and I will take any real putter.

 

Do we overestimate how much the tool matters and discount the application of the craft?  Is the tool a crutch or an excuse too much of the time?

 

For example, if somebody knew that a putt was dead straight from 5 feet, what difference would a few grams, face balance, toe hang, etc. matter if you ACTUALLY need these things to hit the ball straight?  I am not saying that I never miss a putt, but I could trade putters with anybody and shoot the same round if I had 25-30 putts on the practice green to get used to the weight and feel.  We all know people like this, right?

 

I am mostly wondering how people with similar thoughts approach this.  I had this conversation with a friend and his take was that the best athletes are the best putters - they see the whole thing from line, alignment, feel and put the whole picture together and just execute.  The best athletes are small-detail people.  Perhaps the best putter that I know was a former O lineman - his technique with foot and hand placement, spine bend, etc within 1/2 of an inch ALL WHILE ANOTHER HUGE DUDE WAS RUNNING AT HIM is not too much different that the small details of the whole picture needed to putt well so I guess that it makes sense that he is good at both.

 

In the end, it is cold here and I got to thinking about how to up the athlete part of this for my game.  I don't expect everybody to get this or agree with this take/approach.

[MattM97]

Define well I guess. 

 

When I was at Ping for my fitting and for sh-ts and giggles I asked if I could roll a double bend mallet basically opposite of what I was fit into. Did my 5 putts, data pops up on the screen and score was good. Fitter said I'm a good putter, I can adapt and roll anything well but if I struggle with aim and speed I'll suffer. 

 

Give me like 5-10 putts with a putter and I could probably have most rolling a ball end over end on a flat putt. Now add in green reading and a score different story. 

[btyh]

Definitely not going to say I putt well with all putters but I personally putt the same with all my putters. I would just say it's my feel and learning to adapt to green conditions, and maybe consistent length. 

[PJE]

5 hours ago, jda said:

 

I only partially get this.  In order to sink putts, all of those things quoted above seem way less important than having the right line and ability to get the ball on the right line and just nutting up an executing.  If this is a problem, then is the tool really that important?  If we had to choose, would you rather have a trusty putter or a for-sure read... for a million dollars you want your putter for a 10 foot putt or a line on the green for the break?  Give me the line and I will take any real putter.

 

Do we overestimate how much the tool matters and discount the application of the craft?  Is the tool a crutch or an excuse too much of the time?

 

For example, if somebody knew that a putt was dead straight from 5 feet, what difference would a few grams, face balance, toe hang, etc. matter if you ACTUALLY need these things to hit the ball straight?  I am not saying that I never miss a putt, but I could trade putters with anybody and shoot the same round if I had 25-30 putts on the practice green to get used to the weight and feel.  We all know people like this, right?

 

I am mostly wondering how people with similar thoughts approach this.  I had this conversation with a friend and his take was that the best athletes are the best putters - they see the whole thing from line, alignment, feel and put the whole picture together and just execute.  

Well the first putter I ever owned was a Bullseye- essentially a flat piece of brass with the shaft near the heel. Then I had an 8802- a slightly bigger piece of steel with a flange and the shaft at the heel. Then I had an Anser- an even bigger piece of bronze with a plumber’s neck. I made putts with all of them but I sure as heck made more putts with the Anser. 
Why would there be different kinds of putters manufactured if the type of putter didn’t matter? We could all just putt with a shepherd’s crook or whatever the first golfers used. (Don’t tell the USGA- we will have a putter rollback). 
So, I think the putter has something to do with success. But I agree, it’s mostly the ability of the golfer that is the main determinant for success. 

[Phabs]

If you do a lot of stroke practice with the two toned balls or even with a line on your ball it becomes pretty apparent what works and what doesn’t.  When the toe hang is solid for my stroke I get way more end over end rolls.  I’ve putted with some friends face balanced set ups and higher % toe hang set ups and I just feel like I roll them like 💩.  
 

Perfect end over end rolls doesn’t always equate to more putts if you can’t hit your line to save your life, sure.  My best putting rounds are always when my roll is pure and all I have to worry about is finding my high point on the read.  
 

The toe hang percentage that works for me isn’t a common off the shelf set up so I’m typically stuck in customs… darn.  The indoor/outdoor quintic fitting I did significantly opened my eyes to how important this was for my stroke.  
 

Could I make putts with a face balanced putter sure.  Would I be leaving strokes out on the greens… absolutely 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Phabs

[ShortGolfer]

I did a putter fitting at Club Champion and sank nearly all the putts with all the putters I tried!

As a stroke survivor I had to adapt to things being "day by day."  It may help that I'm cross dominant and can switch between right and left handed dominance. 

[Nickb333]

Well, before my wife actually played golf, she could make putts. And I mean make putts. Over and over from anywhere. Didn’t matter what putter she used because she didn’t even own one. 

 

I didn’t realize her God given talent until she made 5 putts in a row at a fundraiser. No one else, including me, made more than 3. 

She never played sports as a kid. Somehow she can put the ball in the hole. 

 

[BHI 99]

19 hours ago, millerj said:

To add I think it's all about the toe hang, I am a notorious pusher of the ball when I putt so having something be more face balanced has helped my putting tremendously. Alternatively if you pull the ball you're likely better off with something with more toe hang.

I thought it was opposite? If you pull you want less toe hang, if you push you want more to close the face? 

[TheBrud]

I have found my putter to make little difference in how I putt.  Blade, mallet, cheap, expensive, it just doesn't matter.  You could give me any putter off the rack at the thrift store and I won't be able to tell the difference.  Give me 10 practice strokes I'll be playing the same no matter what.

 

The only thing I'm really picky about is the grip.  I do like a good putter grip. 

[millerj]

1 hour ago, BHI 99 said:

I thought it was opposite? If you pull you want less toe hang, if you push you want more to close the face? 

I think it can go both ways, when I went for my fitting with Ping they told me something more face balanced would help alleviate my push (which it has done wonders for). Effectively the face doesn't open as much on the back stroke, which gives me more time to close the face when I make contact with the ball. I think rate of face rotation in the stroke will influence it too where it can be opposite for some folks. Best to just get fit 🙂 

Edited December 15, 2023 by millerj

[bunta]

i play with someone like this. Tour worthy chipping (no joke), with impeccable putting. Ive played with him for the better part of 10 years, 40 rounds a year, and i can honestly say he would 3 putt maybe 5 times a year. Maybe.  And he'd do this with any putter you throw at him. Its as aggravating lol as it is impressive. Just typing this makes my blood boil.

[jda]

4 hours ago, bunta said:

i play with someone like this. Tour worthy chipping (no joke), with impeccable putting. Ive played with him for the better part of 10 years, 40 rounds a year, and i can honestly say he would 3 putt maybe 5 times a year. Maybe.  And he'd do this with any putter you throw at him. Its as aggravating lol as it is impressive. Just typing this makes my blood boil.

 

The next time that you play with him, ask him what his approach is in a few sentences.  I imagine that it that he just sees the whole picture and can execute, but I would be curious to see what he says.  The other folks that I know like this never say anything about the tool.

[bunta]

17 hours ago, jda said:

 

The next time that you play with him, ask him what his approach is in a few sentences.  I imagine that it that he just sees the whole picture and can execute, but I would be curious to see what he says.  The other folks that I know like this never say anything about the tool.

 

 

you dont think ive asked this in the past decade lol ?? trust me man, i've asked, i've begged, i've bribed, i've dug so deep into his brain i couldnt find myself back out. He has told me, and shown me, an infinite amount of times on what he does. His big thing is "relax everything, and rock your shoulders". Cant tell you how many times ive wanted to slap him across two fairways for telling me to "relax and rock your shoulders". B*tch, i am relaxed! and I am rocking my shoulders! Ive came to the conclusion that he just has tremendous FEEL and control with his muscle. And thats it. lol. Ive given up long time ago.

 

His chipping is on another level too. In some ways i feel his chipping is on par with what i see on tour and there isn't an ounce of kid when i say that. It doesn't matter where he is around the green, he'll put it close enough that its an automatic "pick it up you f*ck face" or give himself a very good chance because he rarely misses anything inside 5ft.. Again, its just TREMENDOUS FEEL and control of his short game strokes. And the kicker is he doesnt even practice his short game lol. Ever.

 

I have never came across a player that possesses such a huge disparity and imbalance between their long game and short game. The man carries a +5hdcp around the green, but a 20hdcp off the tee. Its the only reason why i can still tolerate playing with him.

 

 

[596]

I think it has to do with how mechanical you are putting. The correctly fit putter to a mechanical stroke will help a lot.  But if you putt by feel then not really.

 

I can change putters and see no real advantage or disadvantage with any of them.  I can also change grips from regular, to claw, to left hand low and see nearly no change, especially on putts under 5 feet.  I can also change to an open stance or a closed stance and still see no change.  I putt with any of these grips/stance in any given 18 holes. 

 

I average low 30s putting at age 68.

Edited December 16, 2023 by 596

[MikeW2]

i can

[Nickb333]

1 hour ago, bunta said:

 

 

you dont think ive asked this in the past decade lol ?? trust me man, i've asked, i've begged, i've bribed, i've dug so deep into his brain i couldnt find myself back out. He has told me, and shown me, an infinite amount of times on what he does. His big thing is "relax everything, and rock your shoulders". Cant tell you how many times ive wanted to slap him across two fairways for telling me to "relax and rock your shoulders". B*tch, i am relaxed! and I am rocking my shoulders! Ive came to the conclusion that he just has tremendous FEEL and control with his muscle. And thats it. lol. Ive given up long time ago.

 

His chipping is on another level too. In some ways i feel his chipping is on par with what i see on tour and there isn't an ounce of kid when i say that. It doesn't matter where he is around the green, he'll put it close enough that its an automatic "pick it up you f*ck face" or give himself a very good chance because he rarely misses anything inside 5ft.. Again, its just TREMENDOUS FEEL and control of his short game strokes. And the kicker is he doesnt even practice his short game lol. Ever.

 

I have never came across a player that possesses such a huge disparity and imbalance between their long game and short game. The man carries a +5hdcp around the green, but a 20hdcp off the tee. Its the only reason why i can still tolerate playing with him.

 

 

Doesn’t sound like your buddy hits many gir. So he gets lots of short game practice. 🙂

[Michael Shanker]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:01 PM, jda said:

I don't understand all of this face balance, toe hang, broomstick, MOI, etc. talk.  I know what all of them mean and what they do, but I just don't see how any of them help to sink putts if you cannot already sink putts.  Sure, I have preferences, but I feel like I could have the same results with randomly selected putter.

 

For those that are similar, do you explain this by having a neutral stroke, being able to read greens or good field of vision and spacial awareness/depth perception?  For me, I can read greens pretty well and also align a putt standing over the ball without a mark or anything... basically nothing to do with the putter.

You want me to explain why you "feel like you could have the same results" without trying?
Because feel ain't real and you haven't even bothered to try yet..you're just spouting off about nonsense.
Go fly a kite or something...

[BHI 99]

Sounds like someone is on the naughty list. 

[Foxx]

On 12/15/2023 at 4:01 AM, jda said:

I don't understand all of this face balance, toe hang, broomstick, MOI, etc. talk.  I know what all of them mean and what they do, but I just don't see how any of them help to sink putts if you cannot already sink putts.  Sure, I have preferences, but I feel like I could have the same results with randomly selected putter.

 

For those that are similar, do you explain this by having a neutral stroke, being able to read greens or good field of vision and spacial awareness/depth perception?  For me, I can read greens pretty well and also align a putt standing over the ball without a mark or anything... basically nothing to do with the putter.

 

We share the same unpopular opinion. 

Mine extends further though. I think a decent golfer can adjust to any golf club variance.

Within relatively close region to their exact fitting that is.

 

I've been fitted several times. I've also bought numerous clubs off the shelf and secondhand. And I can say that there is no difference in performance once you adapt to the length, shaft, lie , weight etc. Which for me was usually on a few shots, sometimes just a few practice swings and set up change.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Foxx

[BHI 99]

3 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

We share the same unpopular opinion. 

Mine extends further though. I think a decent golfer can adjust to any golf club variance.

Within close region to their exact fitting.

 

 

I’ll be even more unpopular. Some people are so sold on tech, marketing, FOMO, YouTube, ego, and all the other bullcrap surrounding golf that they won’t believe what their own senses are telling them. The answer is always the next club on the horizon. The implosion is why the classifieds stay so busy. 

[Foxx]

19 minutes ago, BHI 99 said:

I’ll be even more unpopular. Some people are so sold on tech, marketing, FOMO, YouTube, ego, and all the other bullcrap surrounding golf that they won’t believe what their own senses are telling them. The answer is always the next club on the horizon. The implosion is why the classifieds stay so busy. 

 

Yep. I'm a feel player. All that stuff can be paralysing imo.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Foxx