Counterbalancing irons, woods, and/or wedges

[Jtgavigan]

I am a tinkerer to be sure, so that is why I am posting this.

 

I just counterbalanced my putter with a 75g optivibe and a 20g tour lock pro+ (I think that is what it is called). I LOVED the results. My speed control, which has been my nemesis, got way better and fast. I don't feel like I will miss from inside 10 feet unless I make a bad read. 29 and 30 putts my last 2 rounds. One three putt.

 

So, that has me thinking about doing the same with my other clubs just to see what affect it has. I have usually played heavier swingweights and stiffer shafts. I felt like it kept my tempo correct. So, when this was a big craze years ago, I never even considered trying it. But, I am older now and slowing down some.

 

What have people's experiences been? Have you tried the optivibes down in the shaft, or just the weight at the end of the grip? How heavy did you go? How did it change the feel for the better or worse?

 

I am going to take the 12g and 20g tour lock out of the putter and throw it in my driver as a quick experiment, but wanted feedback here in parallel.

 

I know this is an individual thing, but wanted to see what people have noticed. 

[taki27]

I switched to 95 gram graphite and I feel more comfortable with the Tour Lock weights (I haven’t tried Optivibe)  The extra weight 12-20 grams helps me control the club.  I use them in my driver, woods and hybrids also.  I’m a tinkerer so I am

constantly switching the weights. 
 

I would buy 1 of each Tour Lock and try them in your 5 and 9 to see how you like them.

[bekgolf]

4 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

I am a tinkerer to be sure, so that is why I am posting this.

 

I just counterbalanced my putter with a 75g optivibe and a 20g tour lock pro+ (I think that is what it is called). I LOVED the results. My speed control, which has been my nemesis, got way better and fast. I don't feel like I will miss from inside 10 feet unless I make a bad read. 29 and 30 putts my last 2 rounds. One three putt.

 

So, that has me thinking about doing the same with my other clubs just to see what affect it has. I have usually played heavier swingweights and stiffer shafts. I felt like it kept my tempo correct. So, when this was a big craze years ago, I never even considered trying it. But, I am older now and slowing down some.

 

What have people's experiences been? Have you tried the optivibes down in the shaft, or just the weight at the end of the grip? How heavy did you go? How did it change the feel for the better or worse?

 

I am going to take the 12g and 20g tour lock out of the putter and throw it in my driver as a quick experiment, but wanted feedback here in parallel.

 

I know this is an individual thing, but wanted to see what people have noticed. 

 

 Doesn't work for me.  Terrible results with the putter and driver.

 

 

[rsballer10]

13 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

I am a tinkerer to be sure, so that is why I am posting this.

 

I just counterbalanced my putter with a 75g optivibe and a 20g tour lock pro+ (I think that is what it is called). I LOVED the results. My speed control, which has been my nemesis, got way better and fast. I don't feel like I will miss from inside 10 feet unless I make a bad read. 29 and 30 putts my last 2 rounds. One three putt.

 

So, that has me thinking about doing the same with my other clubs just to see what affect it has. I have usually played heavier swingweights and stiffer shafts. I felt like it kept my tempo correct. So, when this was a big craze years ago, I never even considered trying it. But, I am older now and slowing down some.

 

What have people's experiences been? Have you tried the optivibes down in the shaft, or just the weight at the end of the grip? How heavy did you go? How did it change the feel for the better or worse?

 

I am going to take the 12g and 20g tour lock out of the putter and throw it in my driver as a quick experiment, but wanted feedback here in parallel.

 

I know this is an individual thing, but wanted to see what people have noticed. 

 

I have used counterweights of various forms on and off for 15 years. It 100% changes the feel for me. I used to counterweight all clubs from driver to LW. But I have since moved on from them as I don't think they are necessary if the club has been fitted properly. The only exception is the driver, where the heavier handle seems to both shallow my swing and add clubhead/ball speed. I have not counterweighted my current driver though, as again I've gotten more distance and accuracy from a proper fitting and am afraid to modify the setup in any way.

[Jtgavigan]

5 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

 

It 100% changes the feel for me. 

 

How does it change the feel and how much weight did you use? I am thinking mostly about my driver and not the rest of the clubs, but just curious what the difference in feel is and how much weight do you have to add before it feels noticeably different.

[Jtgavigan]

15 hours ago, taki27 said:

I switched to 95 gram graphite and I feel more comfortable with the Tour Lock weights (I haven’t tried Optivibe)  The extra weight 12-20 grams helps me control the club.  I use them in my driver, woods and hybrids also.  I’m a tinkerer so I am

constantly switching the weights. 
 

I would buy 1 of each Tour Lock and try them in your 5 and 9 to see how you like them.

 

How did the feel change for you?

[taki27]

My tempo can get real quick.  The Tour Lock smoothed out my tempo because I felt more heft.  I’m not particularly sensitive to swingweight.   I know you tried the Avalon shafts.  I’m using their predecessor the Pro X 95.  

[rsballer10]

52 minutes ago, Jtgavigan said:

 

How does it change the feel and how much weight did you use? I am thinking mostly about my driver and not the rest of the clubs, but just curious what the difference in feel is and how much weight do you have to add before it feels noticeably different.

It takes at least 10 grams until I notice a difference. It makes the clubhead feel lighter, and created a higher launch/lower spinning ball flight. Counterweights also paired well with a softer/lighter shaft. 

[Jtgavigan]

46 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

It takes at least 10 grams until I notice a difference. It makes the clubhead feel lighter, and created a higher launch/lower spinning ball flight. Counterweights also paired well with a softer/lighter shaft. 

 

Interesting. Thanks! Where in MD are you? I grew up in Wheaton.

[ChaosTheory]

Hireko sells inexpensive drop in steel weights for steel and graphite.  They sell them on Amazon too.  Very cheap and easy to use, especially if you use air to install grips.  
 

I like it in my putter.  Full swing clubs, eh, at first I think I’ve found something.  But it hasn’t held up over time.

[ARL67]

I use heavy CP2 Wrap Jumbo grips, which weigh about 80g.

I like the less tension in my grip, the added total weight, and the effect on Swing-Weight ( be it real or imaginary -> don't build for a SW target with a Jumbo installed, use a 50g grip for SW targeting as that is what the scale was designed for  )

[taki27]

I went with 16 in my irons and hybrids, 20 in my 5 wood and I vary with the driver, but I seem to do better with 20-30.  I usually use 40-50 in my putter

 

[tdeutmeyer]

A tee through some steel washers stuck into the end of the grip is a quick way to test different weights.

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

 

How did the feel change for you?

 

Nothing wrong with being curious - but I wouldn't put much weight on other peoples experiences.    The effect of true counterbalancing on full swing clubs is VERY unpredictable.    About 1/3 of the people who try it will like it,  another 3rd will hate it, and the rest wont really notice much difference at all.  And there is no known way to predict which might be the case for any one individual.    Best advice I've seen (from Tom Wishon) is to:

 

1) first make sure you have the best fit for shaft weight and head weight (swing weight) and grip size w/o any counterbalance weight added.

2) then go to the range and test out adding 5-20 gm in 5 gm increments.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

Putters cant be compared to "full swing" clubs, but if you would like to try CWs on full swing club to see how that works, its easy to test and dial in the weight.

 

Take a long tee, and a handfull of spacer shims.

 

put the tee strait trough the spacers, and leave at least 1 inch of the tee without spacers.

 

push the tee with spacers down into the ventilation hole on top of the grip, fix it there with duct tape.

 

try the club, judge feel and impact, adjust the number of spacers and try again....

 

PS - its the same trick we can use to find the ideal CW for putters, but for putters i think you should read post 8 or 9 (cant recall), in my DIY Driver tune up, where some added notes with a simple test is explained to make it as it should be. it WILL improve putter performance big timeif its done as i advice in that post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Lasorcier]

I use the tour lock and optivibe on many clubs.   They are excellent at getting me the feels I want as well as results.   I like heavy feel in general.   

For driver,  I have a 7g weight plug at the end of the grip and a 30g tour lock about 7-8 inches down from the end.  It gets me the feels I want while using a lighter shaft (ventus red 6x).

 

For irons I will use them in long irons and that stops with the 7 iron where there is no weight for that and below.  They are heavy enough with DG x100.  The long irons are a lighter shaft.

 

The further down in the shaft you move it, the heavier the feels.  

 

It's all personal preference.  

[Jtgavigan]

Well, first experiment,  I used a 12g tour lock plus, an 18g bolt taped in, and a 39g bolt taped in. Here are pics from the first 5 swings (normal spped) and mid speed session work and post speed session work. 

 

I don't have a launch monitor and I was hitting into a net, but impact pattern was pretty darn solid!

 

 

[taki27]

Hard to argue with the pattern on the 12 gram!

[Jtgavigan]

That was actually the 39g bolt!! I am going to play tomorrow and see how I actually drive it. I put the 12g in my 3w. 

 

I am going to order some tour lock counterweights if I get good results. 

[rsballer10]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:15 PM, Jtgavigan said:

 

Interesting. Thanks! Where in MD are you? I grew up in Wheaton.

 

Westminster, though I did go to UMD so I'm familiar with PG/Montgomery County.

[Jtgavigan]

Update 1/10/2023:

 

I experimented with some counterweights in a bunch of my clubs and here is where I am at.

 

The good:

 

1. I really like counterweights in my woods and hybrid. I feel like with the right weight, I swing it a little faster and the club feels "softer" at impact.

2. I used a 39g bolt taped in to the top of my grip of my driver for 2 rounds and drove it well. Today, I got to hit them all into my net with the tour lock weights installed. I liked the 50g for my driver slightly better than the 40g. I liked 20g in both my 3 wood and my hybrid. I had used an 18g bolt taped in for testing.

 

The bad:

1. If I went higher than 20g in my 3 wood and hybrid, impact felt "harsh" and not really sure why.

2. I hated the counterweights in my irons. Again, they felt "harsh" at impact, even on good strikes. Even if I theoretically were to strike it better, more centered, and with better dispersion, I still would probably take them out because of the feel. Again, not sure why this is.

 

Definitely has been a worthwhile experience and will likely keep them in the bag in some form for a while. 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

7 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

The bad:

1. If I went higher than 20g in my 3 wood and hybrid, impact felt "harsh" and not really sure why.

 

Did you check if face impact location shifted?  (e.g. use foot powder spray)

[Jtgavigan]

I do that a lot, but I didn't in this case. I will go back and check next time I experiment. 

[Stuart_G]

25 minutes ago, Jtgavigan said:

I do that a lot, but I didn't in this case. I will go back and check next time I experiment. 

 

In theory, weight added to butt end of the club shouldn't have much of a direct influence on the feel of impact - but it certainly can effect the delivery of the club into impact.  So some type of change to the impact conditions is more likely the cause of any change in feel at impact.

 

[Howard_Jones]

18 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

In theory, weight added to butt end of the club shouldn't have much of a direct influence on the feel of impact - but it certainly can effect the delivery of the club into impact.  So some type of change to the impact conditions is more likely the cause of any change in feel at impact.

 

Feel is depending on what happen to the BUTT of the shaft itself, if that stiffens up, the player will be able to feel it

[Stuart_G]

9 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Feel is depending on what happen to the BUTT of the shaft itself, if that stiffens up, the player will be able to feel it

 

Adding counterbalanced weight isn't going to do anything to stiffen up any part of the shaft.

 

[Howard_Jones]

30 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Adding counterbalanced weight isn't going to do anything to stiffen up any part of the shaft.

 

All those i tried DID, we can measure it on the CPM reader, it was NOT Tourlock, but i expect them to work the same way, since they look equal and is installed the same way, where they "expand" in the shaft to stay in its position.  
Just try it and see for yourself, this is why i dont use insert weight on anything but putters, i prefer that wgt to come from added grip weight and rubber who dampens feel from the shaft instead of boosting it like the insert CWs i had. (cant recall the brand name, but Mitchell sold them)  
 

Edited January 11, 2024 by Howard_Jones

[Stuart_G]

20 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

All those i tried DID, we can measure it on the CPM reader, it was NOT Tourlock, but i expect them to work the same way, since they look equal and is installed the same way, where thet "expand" in the shaft to stay in its position.

 

It's more likely an artifact of the testing methodology.   Beam theory is pretty clear on the real effect.

 

EDIT:  for this I mean something similar to clamping pressure effecting the measured CPM - yes the measured value changes but the stiffness of the shaft really didn't.

 

Now, the mass of the cb weight could certainly have a (very) small effect in increasing the dampening of any vibrations coming through the shaft to the hands - but that would make the feel of impact less harsh, never more harsh.

Edited January 11, 2024 by Stuart_G

[taki27]

10 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

Update 1/10/2023:

 

I experimented with some counterweights in a bunch of my clubs and here is where I am at.

 

The good:

 

1. I really like counterweights in my woods and hybrid. I feel like with the right weight, I swing it a little faster and the club feels "softer" at impact.

2. I used a 39g bolt taped in to the top of my grip of my driver for 2 rounds and drove it well. Today, I got to hit them all into my net with the tour lock weights installed. I liked the 50g for my driver slightly better than the 40g. I liked 20g in both my 3 wood and my hybrid. I had used an 18g bolt taped in for testing.

 

The bad:

1. If I went higher than 20g in my 3 wood and hybrid, impact felt "harsh" and not really sure why.

2. I hated the counterweights in my irons. Again, they felt "harsh" at impact, even on good strikes. Even if I theoretically were to strike it better, more centered, and with better dispersion, I still would probably take them out because of the feel. Again, not sure why this is.

 

Definitely has been a worthwhile experience and will likely keep them in the bag in some form for a while. 

 

 

I’m sorry if I missed it, are your current iron shafts graphite or steel?

[Howard_Jones]

34 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's more likely an artifact of the testing methodology.   Beam theory is pretty clear on the real effect.

 

EDIT:  for this I mean something similar to clamping pressure effecting the measured CPM - yes the measured value changes but the stiffness of the shaft really didn't.

 

Now, the mass of the cb weight could certainly have a (very) small effect in increasing the dampening of any vibrations coming through the shaft to the hands - but that would make the feel of impact less harsh, never more harsh.

Clamping pressure was not adjusted,(but calibrated before testing like i always did) and i dont expect the shaft to expand as OD on the full 5 last inches where its clamped, so i dont see that as a explanation.
IF and only IF the shaft OD expanded, it would be isolated to the area the insert weight expand in the shaft, making a "loose fit" in the rest of the clamp, and by that a very strange and way lower CPM return value, NOT higher. This was back in 2010 or 2011, so im not able to recall how much it was, but enough to notice for a player, and it was done with a driver shaft (graphite)(some Grafalloy model)

Anyway, i normally play Jumbo size, but those are too heavy (72 grams), and i found that New Decade mid had both the right traction and weight to work for me on the driver, so thats what im using with asymmetrical BU to straiten out the taper and get more diameter for the lowest hand.