Colorado WRX 2024

[Dancin]

The key to playing 6 at Legacy under pressure in a tournament is to forget about birdie and hit the tee shot to the bottom of the hill in the fairway instead of trying to get on the top shelf where it can bounce off long and the penalty for a miss left or right is severe. That takes all the trouble of the trees and the rough and hill out of play and is a fairly easy shot with a shorter club followed by another fairly easy shot. For most people you aren't getting to the green in two from the top shelf anyway, so being up top vs being at the bottom of the hill is almost meaningless.

Hit tee shot so it stops here

Edited April 25, 2024 by Dancin

[pseudoswede]

Gawd I hate that hole...

[Joelness]

2 minutes ago, Dancin said:

The key to playing 6 at Legacy under pressure in a tournament is to forget about birdie and hit the tee shot to the bottom of the hill in the fairway instead of trying to get on the top shelf where it can bounce off long and the penalty for a miss left or right is severe. That takes all the trouble of the trees and the rough and hill out of play and is a fairly easy shot with a shorter club followed by another fairly easy shot. For most people you aren't getting to the green in two from the top shelf anyway, so being up top vs being at the bottom of the hill is almost meaningless.

Hit tee shot here

 

Dead on here.... I think that's exactly where mine landed and almost went into the creek

[Dancin]

3 minutes ago, Joelness said:

 

Dead on here.... I think that's exactly where mine landed and almost went into the creek

I played in a league at Legacy for years before I told myself wtf are you doing trying to hit a wood to the top shelf when you can hit an easy 5 or 6 iron and take all the trouble out of play. It's probably a 7 iron for you guys from the tips. I'll still hit the wood to the top shelf when playing for fun, but if I'm playing a tournament I'm always aiming to have it stop in the fairway at the bottom of the hill or a little further back and then it's an easy shot with nothing blocking you regardless of whether you pull or push the iron off the tee.

[CDM]

1 hour ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Haha, dang, I knew you guys would be the perfect group to ask. I’m guessing Todd Creek is more open and a newer, wider layout on a bigger property, with Legacy being jammed into a smaller, more urban area? Seems like Legacy is the funkier, narrower, quirkier of the two and more could be gained by doing a practice round there. Thanks so much for the input everyone. 

 

HAHAHAHAHA OKAY.....helps IF I look up the event and not thinking it was qualifier. 

 

@Dancin is giving me grief I read it wrong and someone true...😋  100% Legacy...! 

 

I was thinking it was pick one course to qualify, for those not auto qualified that is.  I did not realize they have so many entries they need two courses to hold the event and has there is no qualifier. (?)   

 

I assumed it was like the Senior 4 Ball, at Black Bear this year and all rounds are at the one course. 

 

The senior 4 ball was in my thought process as we were provided the Common Ground 4 Ball match play brackets last week and my partner for those matches is auto qualified for the 4 Ball Senior.  

 

Sinced he is in CG, MC/SR and doing 4-5 Senior CGA events we were marking off dates that are not open, or gone, etc. to plan accordingly. 

 

I guess I am a bit surprised the senior events get way less entiries since they can do all it at Black Bear alone....?  

[jda]

Your decision on 6 at legacy is the shelf off of the tee, or not.  I usually go for the shelf and if not blocked by the stupid tree (stay left) a 2 or 3 iron can maybe reach the front of the green and definitely a 3 wood.  The green side bunker is not bad in 2.  Even if you are long, don't try and go over the tree on the left since there are 2 more behind it.

 

if you get to play 13 from the tee on the right, then you can hit a straight ball at the tree in the distance and it will bound left down to the green.  You draw it and you will never see it again.  If you fade it, you are blocked by the tree.  I hit that shot when nothing matters and can get it most of the time, but I never would with something on the line.  If you NEED it, you can do this.

 

There is a long, uphill par 4 on the back at Todd that has a green that has a ridge and falls off on both sides.  When the grounds crew did not get laid the night before and put that pin on the ridge, you have to be aggressive or good players can 3 and even 4 putt.  Smash a drive at 18 and get past the fairway bunker - longer iron into the green that you can keep right and it will filter to the hole.

Edited April 25, 2024 by jda

[Dancin]

he fixed it..

Edited April 25, 2024 by Dancin

[jda]

I don't quite get to 290-300 all of the time anymore, but I hit driver on 18 at legacy.  If in the right part of the fairway, then mid iron.  If I am under a tree, then it is a 3 shot hole anyway and a low runner into the front bunker is not bad.  If I sat back to try and get into the right part of the fairway (some fairway shots are blocked), then it is usually 3 shots for sure.  Just don't miss badly and the risk is worth it to me - the trees have taller branches and you can usually advance the ball a good way out from under them and keep it low.

 

It is not a long hole and being safe is not a huge benefit to me.  It is one of my favorite holes since I think that most should be more aggressive than they are and what protects the hole is the mind games and the view from the tee.

[MickeyTankBank]

9 hours ago, jda said:

I don't quite get to 290-300 all of the time anymore, but I hit driver on 18 at legacy.  If in the right part of the fairway, then mid iron.  If I am under a tree, then it is a 3 shot hole anyway and a low runner into the front bunker is not bad.  If I sat back to try and get into the right part of the fairway (some fairway shots are blocked), then it is usually 3 shots for sure.  Just don't miss badly and the risk is worth it to me - the trees have taller branches and you can usually advance the ball a good way out from under them and keep it low.

 

It is not a long hole and being safe is not a huge benefit to me.  It is one of my favorite holes since I think that most should be more aggressive than they are and what protects the hole is the mind games and the view from the tee.

I have never liked the tee shot on 18. It just never fit my eye. To me it always seems like you have to be farther right than you actually do. I'd end up under/behind those trees on the right and be blocked out. 

 

I've learned all you need to do is stay right of the bunker on the left and you're fine. 

[bobbyclampett!!]

Dang, you guys are more than generous, thank you! Haha, now I don't even need a practice round at either, just print out these notes and go.

 

Definitely going to try for a practice round at Legacy and see what is up with No. 6. Doesn't sound like either of these are on anyone's top courses in CO list....?

[Joelness]

13 hours ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Dang, you guys are more than generous, thank you! Haha, now I don't even need a practice round at either, just print out these notes and go.

 

Definitely going to try for a practice round at Legacy and see what is up with No. 6. Doesn't sound like either of these are on anyone's top courses in CO list....?

 

When are you going? Want someone to play with?

[MickeyTankBank]

13 hours ago, bobbyclampett!! said:

Dang, you guys are more than generous, thank you! Haha, now I don't even need a practice round at either, just print out these notes and go.

 

Definitely going to try for a practice round at Legacy and see what is up with No. 6. Doesn't sound like either of these are on anyone's top courses in CO list....?

I still like Legacy and usually play it a few times a year. It's always in good shape but it can be a long walk. There are a few holes that have some distance between them. 

 

If you need to fill out a 4some, I'd join you too

[Gmcourtney]

Got out and played at City Park this morning. Had no idea last night if they’d even be open, but got text from my buddy this morning that it was walking only, so we went.  Wet and grey when we teed off, but by the 4th tee the sun was coming out… once we got to 8 it was damn nice!

 

I’m gonna die in this hill. Golf carts make golf slower.  Turned at 1:55. One guy in our group had an adventure on 15-16, but still finished back 9 in around 2:10. 
 

Putter let me down in the back 9, ad had 20 putts… but best round so far this spring… 83.

[jda]

Back from St George/Mesquite.  If any of you are thinking about this trip, Black Desert and Copper Rock are as good as advertised.  Wolf Creek is a decade past it's prime - hardly any grass on the greens and even less on the tee boxes, no GPS in their terrible carts where ours did not even have enough brakes to stop us on the hills and still on about 5/6 iron driving range which always has been barely trying.  They want you to sign a waiver at Wolf Creek that if you get hurt on their crappy carts that you will not sue them, and although none of us signed them, this should be a warning sign that stuff is not up to snuff.  If you have been to Wolf Creek before, then avoid it... if not, then it might be OK to see the layout, but just pretend that it is a $125 round (which is what it is worth) and that you set the other $250 on fire.  The place seems like they are out of money and just holding on as long as they can.

[bobbyclampett!!]

1 hour ago, Gmcourtney said:

Got out and played at City Park this morning. Had no idea last night if they’d even be open, but got text from my buddy this morning that it was walking only, so we went.  Wet and grey when we teed off, but by the 4th tee the sun was coming out… once we got to 8 it was damn nice!

 

I’m gonna die in this hill. Golf carts make golf slower.  Turned at 1:55. One guy in our group had an adventure on 15-16, but still finished back 9 in around 2:10. 
 

Putter let me down in the back 9, ad had 20 putts… but best round so far this spring… 83.

Haha, similar day as me, except… my putter was on fire. 12 putts in nine holes. Got out at Collindale at 7. Beautiful morning. Walked the back nine by myself. Played in one hour.  Shot 34. Best nine ever at C-Dale. Damn near spiritual. 
 

Agree walking can be faster than riding. Everyone walk directly to your ball, hit, keep walking. 

[Dancin]

5 hours ago, jda said:

If you have been to Wolf Creek before, then avoid it... if not, then it might be OK to see the layout, but just pretend that it is a $125 round (which is what it is worth) and that you set the other $250 on fire.  The place seems like they are out of money and just holding on as long as they can.

Wolf Creek charges $375 now? yikes

[pseudoswede]

I signed up to play FRGC at Indian Peaks on Saturday. I have no idea when I'll be able to swing a club between now and then, and the LW in my signature is still in the shipping box it came in when I bought it in January. I did it as an excuse to be closer to Boulder to help continue moving stuff out of my kid's dorm.

[ASak10]

I’m playing Colorado National this week. I haven’t played there in…I don’t even know how long. I can’t remember anything about the course. 

[stoneydukes]

2 hours ago, ASak10 said:

I’m playing Colorado National this week. I haven’t played there in…I don’t even know how long. I can’t remember anything about the course. 

I live a couple miles from the course and drive by to go almost anywhere else. The last time I played we were at 4h30m and got to the short par 3 on the back and there were 3 groups backed up. Drove to the clubhouse and left. I hope they have sorted out the gaps, or at least started to send marshals out to keep pace, but I never got good vibes (mostly attitude in fact) from anyone in the club house, and there are much better local options for me, even though it's definitely the closest course to my house. Hopefully you have better luck during the week. 

 

That said, I did like the course when I played there.

[MickeyTankBank]

I just looked and they are at 9 minute tee times now. I think they used to be 8 minutes, so that's an improvement 🙄

 

That weird lay up par 5 with three different fairways being the second hole doesn't help. If I remember right you can't see the fairway from the tee either, so you have to watch the GPS to see the carts are gone. It backs everyone one up right away.

[Dancin]

Yeah it has gotten a little better at Colorado National, but they still try to jam people onto the course. Try and go early or on a day where a lot of the tee times are open if you play there.

[jda]

2 hours ago, ASak10 said:

I’m playing Colorado National this week. I haven’t played there in…I don’t even know how long. I can’t remember anything about the course. 

 

Played a few weeks ago just after some snow.  It was in pretty good shape.  About 4:15 or 4:20 on a Weekday.

 

Driver or 3 wood to the green on 17 - just go for it.  🙂

 

The mud around the cart paths where they are doing work is like glue - avoid it at all costs.

[Joelness]

18 hours ago, Gmcourtney said:

I’m gonna die in this hill. Golf carts make golf slower.  Turned at 1:55. One guy in our group had an adventure on 15-16, but still finished back 9 in around 2:10. 

 

As is usually the case in any good debate, I think the real answer is sometimes. Try walking Fox Hill yesterday behind four 65-76 year-olds that clearly don't walk when they play golf. I thought I was watching zombies walking for the last five holes. I had two younger guys in my group that don't walk often atm and they were definitely slower than normal, which isn't fast already. What normally is a 3h45m round was 4h45m 

 

Bummer on Wolf, I was there in 2022 and it was in great shape although definitely the scariest golf cart ride I've ever had. That's saying a lot considering I literally broke my pelvis 20 months ago flying out of a cart. 

[Joelness]

The first obvious answer for pace of play at CNGC is simply too short of a window for tee time gaps. There are other issues simply related to the course design as well, such as the male tendency to hit from tees he shouldn't, space between holes, and other routing issues. 

 

The reason Colorado National has it's biggest problems IMO comes from the GM's attitude toward maximizing daily revenue.

 

Just a little story from there around the GM about pace of play. I was in there talking to their 1st Assistant LP one day and he said he had done a timing survey for the golf course to set the expected time to play each hole for the GPS carts. He was pissed because the GM simply ignored some of the recommendations. One of which was number 8. The survey gave that hole an average of 15m to play and he decided that was too slow and set the carts to 10m. If you step back and look at that from a customer viewpoint it's almost comical how dumb that idea is. You won't get your intended effect of people playing faster and you're also just going to piss them off and think your course is slower than it is (which is SLOW AF.) 

Edited April 29, 2024 by Joelness

[ASak10]

The pace of play thing drives me so crazy.  Like it's so easy to just spread out the times and rounds would be so much quicker.  But you're right Joel, there's too many GMs who just care about packing in those extra few tee times 🙄 golfer experience be damned.  Thankfully we're playing tomorrow around 10 and it doesn't appear to be a packed day so hopefully it's not too bad.

[Dancin]

The other fun part of Colorado National is if you go early on a weekday and get the first time thinking you are going to fly. Unless you are wandering around the course in a 4:30 pace you will run into the maintenance crew who don't get up really early to be done before the first rounds and could care less about you standing in the fairway waiting for them to finish mowing a green. I made the mistake of trying to play before work there once.

[jda]

I think that CO National starts groups off of the back now at least on the busy days... so even if you fly, you have to wait for the 9 hole players who start on the back to finish.  This could have just been a day or two when I saw the tee sheet, but I definitely said back-9, 9 hole tee times early.

 

This is becoming pretty common everywhere.

[CDM]

Speed of play is so subjective one what causes it.  

 

There is the "core" group of players (Ie: like those in this thread) who know their game, "ready golf", even when using a cart.  I mean seriously, how hard is it to drop one player off and drive to the other ball...??   

 

Then there is the "Hey lets get together for 18 holes....once every 30-45 day players",   That is what I notice is the biggest issue we all deal with. 

 

In my personal experience the 8 min or 10min spacing does not fix the issue.

 

the courses I have been too that have a 2 min difference it happens. Public ones that is.  The 2 mins spacing will be gone within the first 4-5 holes if you send out the B group and followed by a few A group players.    

 

Private courses of course are different and most of those it seems run on 10 mins spacing but everyone at the club knows the rules hands downs.

 

Soapbox: 

The one thing that always pops out when watching it unfold in front of you is the stupid TAP IN PUTTS.    Most of us on here will give/pick up those 1 foot tap in's unless the putt is on the side of a really severe green and everyone knows is it not "easy".  The "B" group players will mark it, line it up, read the putt, remark it, re-read it,  etc. from 12" away...!   

 

Not to point fingers.....but......I have seen @TheKrushh do that soooo many times....ugghhh,...... 🤣  Just kidding.  

 

Edited May 1, 2024 by CDM

[ASak10]

2 hours ago, jda said:

I think that CO National starts groups off of the back now at least on the busy days... so even if you fly, you have to wait for the 9 hole players who start on the back to finish.  This could have just been a day or two when I saw the tee sheet, but I definitely said back-9, 9 hole tee times early.

 

This is becoming pretty common everywhere.

 

I actually don't mind this trend, I've done it a bunch in the summer at CommonGround when the kids have soccer or baseball later in the day.  It's a nice way to get out early, play a quick 9, be home with breakfast burritos for the family and everyone is happy!

[jda]

9 minutes ago, ASak10 said:

 

I actually don't mind this trend, I've done it a bunch in the summer at CommonGround when the kids have soccer or baseball later in the day.  It's a nice way to get out early, play a quick 9, be home with breakfast burritos for the family and everyone is happy!

 

I don't mind it either.  Lots of people complain about the courses skimping and cutting little things here and there and if this extra revenue helps to keep golf strong and thriving, then I am all for it.  I don't particularly like to play with the hustle up crowd too much anyway - I play at a pretty good pace, but playing too fast is more annoying than playing too slow to me.  I don't really like to be under 3:15-3:30 if I am trying to play golf and not just whack-and-follow (winter stuff).

 

When I was a kid, one of the courses known for slow play stopped serving alcohol on the course and put in a larger outdoor patio with shade and good waitresses with specials after the round.  It dropped round speed by like 40 minutes.

Edited April 29, 2024 by jda