Sand Valley September trip booked...tips/advice/experience please!

[Guest]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:33 PM, sabram said:

I was there two weeks ago. It was a great experience. Coming from the East Coast it's easier to get to than Bandon and the experience is just as good. The four courses are outstanding and very different from one another which is a big bonus. The conditions were excellent as were the lodging, food and service. It's expensive, but we got what we paid for. I have only two regrets about the trip. (i) I shouldn't have played 36 holes a day. It was hot, I'm in my 70's and 3 of the 4 courses are quite hilly. I was really exhausted half way through an afternoon round. We should have instead played a morning round and follow that with a round on the Sandbox short course and extended the trip in order to play each course rather than squeeze a second round in the afternoon. (ii)  I missed meeting up with Chanceman on my last day. 

 

 

As with Bandon, If you ask ten people to rank the courses in order that they liked them, you'll get ten different rankings. Here are a few thoughts on the courses:

 

My favorite course was Sedge Valley. Forget the fact that the yardage on the card tips out at 6,200 yards. It's a full size course except that it has only one par 5 and five par 3's. It has lots of elevation changes, lots of variety and really fun greens. Some of my favorite holes were the uphill ones such as 3, 6, 12 and 18. The greens differ significantly from the Lido. The LIdo greens are extremely hard to hold, despite being very large  due to their speed, firmness and false fronts and sides. Whereas, many of the greens at Sedge have backboards and sideboards that can feed your ball toward a pin. It was helpful to have a caddy who can tell you the right line on approach shots to take advantage of those features. The course was influenced by the English Heathland courses. I've played a couple dozen heaths in south and central England. They are among my favorites.  I can see a bit of that inspiration at Sedge, but without actual heather in play it doesn't really look or play like a heathland, but that doesn't matter as it's a very interesting and fun course to play.

 

I was not expecting to love Mammoth Dunes, but I did. Everything about the course is of mammoth proportion. If you've played Streamsong Black or Old MacDonald you'll have had some experience with such big greens, but a few of the ones on Mammoth Dunes are even bigger than those. I did sink a 100 foot putt. There are so many fun shots to try on this course. Again it was worth having a caddy, otherwise I wouldn't have figured out a few of the lines for some of my favorite shots such as the tee shot on the par 3 #4, the approach shot to the sloping boomerang shaped green on #6, and the best route to drive the green on #14. 

 

I think the Lido will be the course that has the most diversity of opinion. However, one thing that I think everyone will agree on is that it is a difficult course to score well on. It is definitely a good player's course. My buddy and I are bogey golfers and we got beaten up pretty badly on the Lido score-wise. It was worse  as it was our second round of the day and we were pretty tired.  There is a lot of deception even with a caddy showing lines of play. The lack of clear sight lines and difficulty holding greens (or getting close to the pin if you do hold a green) gets into your head. There are places where holes seem to cris-cross one another and we wouldn't have known where the next hole was without a caddy. I think it would take at least a half dozen rounds to get comfortable playing the Lido, so probably good for members, but not for one play visitors. Having said that, the course is an amazing feat and worth playing especially if you are into golf course architecture. The Macdonald style bunkers and plateau greens are very cool. The course is the least photogenic of the four and the only one of the four that is not hilly, yet they created lots of fairway movement with ripples, humps, hillocks and a huge dune of the Alps hole. If scenery is important to you, you may be disappointed with the Lido as compared to the other three.

 

I think the closer you are to scratch, the more you'll like Lido more than Sedge and the closer you are to a bogey (or worse) golfer the more you'll like Sedge and Mammoth

 

The Sand Valley course was good. I'm a big Bill Coore fan, but I didn't think this course was as interesting or unique as the other three courses at the resort or other Coore-Crenshaw courses I've played. I'm glad I played it, but I'd return to the other three before replaying Sand Valley. I did love the two finishing holes though.

 

On the last day of the trip we drove 90 minutes to play Lawsonia Links. If you plan a trip to Sand Valley you must add a day to play Lawsonia Links. It should not be missed. It makes for an interesting comparison to the Lido. It was designed by William Langford and Theodore Moreau, who like CB Macdonald designed courses in the 1920's and 30's. The bunkering is similar to  the LIdo both in size, shape, style and placements and is used to confuse your eye as to distances. The elevated greens have a similar feel to the Lido as well, yet the courses look and play very differently. The Links at Lawsonia has a very green and manciured look with lots of elevation changes, while the Lido is browner and more rustic looking and is on very flat land. It was an intersting exercise to see how the two are similar and how they are different. Lawsonia Links was a load of fun.

 

Click on a photo to see full photo tours of the courses

 

Sedge Valley

 

 

 

Mammoth Dunes

 

The Lido

 

Lawsonia Links

 

 

Sand Valley 

I played SV/MD/SB the year after they opened with a group and SV the following year with a good friend last minute due to inclement weather at Lawsonia.  The pics with holes in succession really bring back great memories.  Thanks!

Edited September 25, 2024 by ode

[mshills]

18 hours ago, NewGuy412 said:

Alright so I’ll try to do a review by typing it thru my phone since all my photos are on here, so bear with me.

 

We left Pittsburgh 9/18 and drove up to Hartford, WI to stay at Cobblestone hotels. Accommodations were not available on Erin Hills and this is a close choice with a few bars and restaurants around. The drive took us about 9 hours and traffic was actually minimal thru Chicago since we were routed on 294 and bypassed all the main city traffic. We had a tee time at Erin a little after 10 on 9/19 and got to the course right after 8am. The course was amazing, everything from the practice range, facilities, pro shop and food/drink. First course nerves had us lose balls in the high fescue but for all of us it was the only lost balls of the whole week. I almost had a hole in one on 16 after a friendly bet with my caddy for closest to the pin. The greens and fairways were in really great shape and the fescue was actually cut down a good bit so it didn’t penalize us much. I shot very well for what the course is and the walk is very long but very much worth it. I think we would all rank this as the most favorite course of the weekend by far, I’d go back time and time again.

 

After we ate and hung out a good bit we made the over 2 hour drive to a rental house we got in Lake Arrowhead area since Sand Valley accommodations were not available. This is a really close by area to look for if you can’t get room on Sand Valley, it’s right down the street. We got some food from the Greenside Grill at the Lake Arrowhead golf course and slept early to prep for a day of 36 holes.

 

We headed over the next morning to play Sedge at 7:30. Sedge to us seemed to be a great opening course to SV, it’s the shortest of the bunch, has its share of challenges but nothing that will kill you too bad and also has a couple quirky holes/greens. We quickly found out the fairways will all be firm along with the greens just due to the sand base to everything. The greens sound like trampolines when the ball hits them. It’s controversial but with my group of friends and a mix of playing ability for the SV property we put this at #3 on the list. I wish we stayed another day to play it again but will just have to make a trip another time. Our caddies on this loop sucked, sorry to say, and we politely asked the caddy master to get some new guys for the next day but they ended up giving us new guys for the afternoon round. We headed to Mammoth bar and got some lunch, drinks and take a little break to play Mammoth in the afternoon. 
 

We had a tee time on Mammoth around 2 and it’s intimidating on its opening tee shot since the box is right on the practice green and the patio for Mammoth bar. Despite that we all piped drives in front of people and were off. I really liked Mammoth, there were times it penalized all of us but I think it’s a great course for the mix of friends that went. It’s definitely Mammoth in size, fairways are wide, some holes really long but it works if you play money games with your partners or the afternoon round. Personal feeling, I put this at #1 on property just due to playability. We all played really good, had great vibes with our new caddies and all shot really well. Was just a great afternoon round. Greens, fairways, bunkers were all in great shape. Still firm conditions that I just never got used to but used my thin shots to my advantage. We got some dinner at Aldo’s this night, the half chicken was amazing, and ended up getting a few drinks in the Mammoth bar afterwards for a bit.

 

Next morning we headed to SV. I’d put it as #2 going with the playability and fun factor. We all played really well again and its conditions were the same as Sedge and Mammoth. Its greens were different than Mammoth and Sedge but still awesome. I ended up spraining my hand around #16 but worked thru it. Got some tacos at Craig’s Porch afterwards($1 each is amazing!). Storms were moving in and the property gave fair warning to everyone via txt. We headed down to Mammoth bar to secure some seats to wait out what the weather did since we had an evening round on the Sandbox. Ended up being like a party at the bar while everyone waited but the weather passed, delaying tee times but everyone was excited.

 

Headed over to the Sandbox around 5ish after a 3 hour delay. If anyone is staying on property and has hesitation playing this I’d say don’t hesitate. It was a lot of fun walking barefoot having a few beers after a few long walking days. It’s actually a tricky 17 holes but we had a really great time on it. 
 

Played Lido the following late afternoon. 11:30 tee time we got breakfast at the Aldo breakfast buffet. The front desk or bag drop will not tell you this but you need to take the shuttle to Lido. If you have a car and try to drive there they will turn you back. We only tried to drive over because we were staying off property for that evening and checked out before we left to play. It was a colder, windier day and it was evident when we arrived that it would not be an easy course. We struggled a good bit on a the front but ended up still scoring good. The back 9 the sprained hand I had from the day before really sprained on #12 Punch Bowl. I finished that hole and somehow drove my longest drive of the day to the green on #13 Knoll but when I teed off on #14 I couldn’t hold the club or hit the ball. I ended up WD and walked with my buddies and kept the banter up with my caddy. I think we were all very tired and everyone said this was the least favorite course of the week, #4 for the SV property. I think the conditions were challenging and it’s very hard to know where to go. Greens are very firm and very hard to hold. I’d give it another run. 
 

All in all the SV property is very nice and well worth the trip. It was really clean, organized, the employees were great to talk to, food/drink was great and reasonably priced. We had a really special week and I’ll continue to ice my hand lol.

412 guy here too. Thanks for this…on the (likely) outcome that I don’t get an Old Course tee time for 2025, I want to make a trip to Sand Valley. What I’m concerned about is getting the word from Scotland in late October might be too late to book SV.
 

Dang….y’all drove? That might be too much of a haul for me! Bummer about the caddies. I’ve heard the SV loopers just aren’t so good and can be straight up unprofessional. I had a similar experience at Streamsong, long story but I fired the guy and took my bag. 

 

I am an adaptive player and I can’t play 36 in a day so have to think that thru, but 4 rounds at SV would make for a pretty awesome trip. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[doc52]

15 hours ago, eboettne said:

No, foursome. Not sure I follow

A friend and I had a Lido tee time, and the reservation team mentioned we were part of a 6-some. Initially, we were split into back-to-back groups, both supposedly 6-somes, which seemed unusual. Given the odd situation, we decided to cancel the round and instead booked a traditional round at Whistling Straits.

 

[graveydellic]

Lido is very polarizing.  You have to go into it with an open mind, as it's different than any other course you have ever played.  On top of that, it is so firm and fast and can be very difficult.  My dad and I loved it, because it was so unique.  The two people we went with disliked it (too hard, too many blind shots, etc).  When we got on the shuttle back to SV, another individual had just come off the Lido and he said he would never play it again.  A pro at one of the SV courses said it's basically 50/50 people hate it or love it.  

 

Another note, and maybe it has been mentioned here, but Lido is dry.  No bar and no booze on the course.  Something that will probably disappoint more than a few degenerate 8somes.  Worth noting if you are scheduling a trip with a more drink friendly group, you'll probably want to book Lido on your last day when people are running out of gas anyways.  

[vandyfan]

1 hour ago, graveydellic said:

Another note, and maybe it has been mentioned here, but Lido is dry.  No bar and no booze on the course.

 

Absolutely love that, literally THOUSANDS of bars across the country. God forbid we just play golf and that is enough.

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by vandyfan

[mshills]

3 hours ago, graveydellic said:

Lido is very polarizing.  You have to go into it with an open mind, as it's different than any other course you have ever played.  On top of that, it is so firm and fast and can be very difficult.  My dad and I loved it, because it was so unique.  The two people we went with disliked it (too hard, too many blind shots, etc).  When we got on the shuttle back to SV, another individual had just come off the Lido and he said he would never play it again.  A pro at one of the SV courses said it's basically 50/50 people hate it or love it.  

 

Another note, and maybe it has been mentioned here, but Lido is dry.  No bar and no booze on the course.  Something that will probably disappoint more than a few degenerate 8somes.  Worth noting if you are scheduling a trip with a more drink friendly group, you'll probably want to book Lido on your last day when people are running out of gas anyways.  

Well then, Lido looks and sounds like a perfect golf course! 👍🏼
 

Not a teetotaler by any means. I enjoy a  🥃  but not while I’m playing a sport. That’s for the 19th hole!

[ESOX ZO]

Lido is CLASS vaults into top 5 for me. 

[eboettne]

7 hours ago, doc52 said:

A friend and I had a Lido tee time, and the reservation team mentioned we were part of a 6-some. Initially, we were split into back-to-back groups, both supposedly 6-somes, which seemed unusual. Given the odd situation, we decided to cancel the round and instead booked a traditional round at Whistling Straits.

 

Very odd, a sixsome wouldn't be great

[aiyyer]

Just decided to do it next month and got some good tee times.

 Planning to fly into Milwaukee early Wednesday and stay either at Wisconsin Rapids or Plover. Fly out late Sunday. Can’t beat 2Hr non stop flights from DC on southwest and no bag fees! 
I was prepared  to stay on property to be able to play Lido, but that course is only available Monday through Thursday and solidly booked. 

i’m now thinking about taking a day out of Sand Valley and playing Lawsonia on the way in and then Erin Hills on the way out. Limit SV to 2 days and 4 rounds. 


 

[doc52]

2 hours ago, eboettne said:

Very odd, a sixsome wouldn't be great

Confirmed that it was with Lido members, they allow them to play in larger groups.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, doc52 said:

Confirmed that it was with Lido members, they allow them to play in larger groups.

Hopefully that is not a regular occurrence on days they allow guest play/tee times.

[Chanceman]

3 hours ago, aiyyer said:

Just decided to do it next month and got some good tee times.

 Planning to fly into Milwaukee early Wednesday and stay either at Wisconsin Rapids or Plover. Fly out late Sunday. Can’t beat 2Hr non stop flights from DC on southwest and no bag fees! 
I was prepared  to stay on property to be able to play Lido, but that course is only available Monday through Thursday and solidly booked. 

i’m now thinking about taking a day out of Sand Valley and playing Lawsonia on the way in and then Erin Hills on the way out. Limit SV to 2 days and 4 rounds. 


 

Definitely add Lawsonia in place of your first or second day. It’s a gem, not to be missed and it’s so close.
And don’t skip Sedge, it’s terrific.

[aiyyer]

Also has anybody played Sentry World - always  gets good reviews? 

[doc52]

1 hour ago, aiyyer said:

Also has anybody played Sentry World - always  gets good reviews? 

We looked into playing SentryWorld next week, but it appears they have a charity walk/run event on Oct. 6th that shuts down the course for a couple days prior/after. The course may even be closed for the season following the event.

[sabram]

On 9/25/2024 at 9:29 AM, mshills said:

I’ve heard the SV loopers just aren’t so good and can be straight up unprofessional.

That was not my experience. We had different caddies on different days some were just fair some were very good. The younger guys were quieter and more business-like. The older ones tried to be more friendly. None were unprofessional. The best one was Will ( a young guy).  The only issue I had was that it was difficult for our caddy on Lido to describe lines of play. We had to go back and forth a few times for us to understand which tree or shrub in the distance he was referring to. I think that was a result of the course rather than the caddy.

[sabram]

18 hours ago, aiyyer said:

i’m now thinking about taking a day out of Sand Valley and playing Lawsonia on the way in and then Erin Hills on the way out.

That's a good plan. Don't miss the Links course at Laswonia

[aiyyer]

Lawsonia has a $135 day pass to get 36 in. Erin Hills is close to 500 after caddies, etc! And on the last day before it closes - 10/13.

[mshills]

18 minutes ago, sabram said:

That was not my experience. We had different caddies on different days some were just fair some were very good. The younger guys were quieter and more business-like. The older ones tried to be more friendly. None were unprofessional. The best one was Will ( a young guy).  The only issue I had was that it was difficult for our caddy on Lido to describe lines of play. We had to go back and forth a few times for us to understand which tree or shrub in the distance he was referring to. I think that was a result of the course rather than the caddy.

Cool. I’ve heard wild variation in the quality of the loopers there, so good to know. Thanks!

[sabram]

One more caddy thing...  We felt pushed to have the caddy double bag. Our original plan was for my friend to take a single bag caddy and I'd take a pull cart. That way the caddy fee was $100 and we'd give him $100 tip for showing lines off the tee, reading greens etc. for both of us. I prefer to go straight to my ball and hit it rather than have to wait for a caddy to get to me after he has gone to by buddy's ball and I'm happy to rake a bunker. But, the caddies really wanted to carry both bags so it was $200 plus tip. That way they took home $300 per round rather than $200. 

[ND2005]

7 hours ago, sabram said:

One more caddy thing...  We felt pushed to have the caddy double bag. Our original plan was for my friend to take a single bag caddy and I'd take a pull cart. That way the caddy fee was $100 and we'd give him $100 tip for showing lines off the tee, reading greens etc. for both of us. I prefer to go straight to my ball and hit it rather than have to wait for a caddy to get to me after he has gone to by buddy's ball and I'm happy to rake a bunker. But, the caddies really wanted to carry both bags so it was $200 plus tip. That way they took home $300 per round rather than $200. 

pretty universal among the professional caddie circuit. I saw a senior caddie at Bandon just walk off after the caddiemaster told him he was assigned to a single. 

[aiyyer]

So is it a problem if you don’t take caddies?

 

[LongNwrong27]

2 hours ago, ND2005 said:

pretty universal among the professional caddie circuit. I saw a senior caddie at Bandon just walk off after the caddiemaster told him he was assigned to a single. 

Both things are true. Caddies expect doubles but doubles are undoubtedly worse experiences for the golfers. 

[NewGuy412]

1 hour ago, aiyyer said:

So is it a problem if you don’t take caddies?

 

I witness a couple groups that had 2 guys with push carts and the other 2 guys shared a caddie that was double bagging. I’m unsure how it would have worked with the tipping in the end. Several groups went all push cart or had guys carry their own bags. I’d say if it’s first time there try to go with a caddy, next time I’d go I would walk on my own.

 

The double bagging does kinda suck if you hit opposite sides of the fairway or have to wait. Several times I had to wait a decent amount to get my club then felt rushed. Can’t really blame it specifically on the caddies, it’s just what happens.

Edited September 27, 2024 by NewGuy412

[sabram]

1 hour ago, aiyyer said:

So is it a problem if you don’t take caddies?

 

No, not a problem 

[StudentGolfer4]

On 9/25/2024 at 5:27 PM, aiyyer said:

Just decided to do it next month and got some good tee times.

 Planning to fly into Milwaukee early Wednesday and stay either at Wisconsin Rapids or Plover. Fly out late Sunday. Can’t beat 2Hr non stop flights from DC on southwest and no bag fees! 
I was prepared  to stay on property to be able to play Lido, but that course is only available Monday through Thursday and solidly booked. 

i’m now thinking about taking a day out of Sand Valley and playing Lawsonia on the way in and then Erin Hills on the way out. Limit SV to 2 days and 4 rounds. 


 

If possible, make sure you play Sedge more than once. It’s the best of the three courses you are playing. 
 

Both Lawsonia and Erin Hills would be good additions. Just depends on what you are looking for. 

[StudentGolfer4]

12 hours ago, NewGuy412 said:

I witness a couple groups that had 2 guys with push carts and the other 2 guys shared a caddie that was double bagging. I’m unsure how it would have worked with the tipping in the end. Several groups went all push cart or had guys carry their own bags. I’d say if it’s first time there try to go with a caddy, next time I’d go I would walk on my own.

 

The double bagging does kinda suck if you hit opposite sides of the fairway or have to wait. Several times I had to wait a decent amount to get my club then felt rushed. Can’t really blame it specifically on the caddies, it’s just what happens.

I can’t be certain but I would guess the 2 guys with the caddie paid him and the other two most likely did not. I was in the exact situation you described there last year. My buddy and I carried and the other 2 in our group had a caddie doubling. They paid the caddie because they requested him, and then we both gave him 20 because he helped with lines off the tee and ensured we never once had to touch a flag. As a caddy, most people in the group won’t tip if they didn’t request the caddie but it’s a nice gesture and should be done more. 
 

@aiyyer

Sand Valley has what they call pro and junior caddies. Juniors are under 18 and pros are older. Pros usually do elsewhere in the offseason while juniors are usually local high school kids.
 

In my limited experience, if you are a single they will give you a junior caddie and he will only be in charge of your bag. Both of my caddies have told me juniors don’t double unless they’re short on caddies for some reason. I think it would be rare to have a caddy double for you and someone else in your group that you do not know ahead of time. I was assigned a junior caddy my first trip and he did a great job. I requested a junior caddie for my second trip and will do the same next time I make it back. The two I’ve had have been very good. They’re also much more appreciative of a good tip. 

[mshills]

15 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Both things are true. Caddies expect doubles but doubles are undoubtedly worse experiences for the golfers. 

It shouldn’t be if the two caddies are good at working together. Yes, if you have a fore left, fore right off the tee you might have to wait a couple minutes, but if the player takes a deep breath and chills out, the caddie will catch up and no big deal. 
 

If you want a single bag who’s not a HS kid, you’re going to have to come off the hip. 💰

[ND2005]

15 hours ago, NewGuy412 said:

 

 

The double bagging does kinda suck if you hit opposite sides of the fairway or have to wait. Several times I had to wait a decent amount to get my club then felt rushed. Can’t really blame it specifically on the caddies, it’s just what happens.

When that happens I just grab my range finder and a couple of clubs and tell the caddie to go help the other guy 

[NewGuy412]

8 minutes ago, ND2005 said:

When that happens I just grab my range finder and a couple of clubs and tell the caddie to go help the other guy 

Agreed, I would do the same except the one caddy emptied my bag including my range finder 😂. 

[aiyyer]

65/45 October weather is just the November Bandon and February Pinehurst trips our group does.

Going as a single and will carry. Tip a caddie that’s helpful. Are the pro shops comparable to Bandon? Very little stuff on Lido online.