What should I work on this winter (video included)

[DShepley]

Apart from losing 20lbs, (I'm working on it), what should I focus on this winter?

 

I spent a lot of time over the past couple years fixing a horrid roll inside on the back swing. Sometimes in over correction, I pick the club up too much outside but things are getting better. I feel like i should tidy up my lower body action. I don't like the locked out trail knee. Any drills i should think about or anything else I should think about?

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

If you don’t like the trail knee, hips turn later, wrists hinge earlier.

[DShepley]

5 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

If you don’t like the trail knee, hips turn later, wrists hinge earlier.

Thanks Monte, I'll work on that for a while. 

[DShepley]

Here is the data from that swing.

 

[MPStrat]

Shoulder turn is a little flat, I’ve seen a lot worse, but it is the reason that you fight the slightly outside takeaway. Your current arm and wrist movement in the backswing somewhat match how you turn the body. 
 

To put it simply, you want the slightly steeper turn of the shoulders to help influence the hands to work a little bit more “in” in the takeaway. You don’t want to fake it too much by only trying to pull the hands in. 

[virtuoso]

Do you have a face on?

[getitdaily]

Are you trying to reduce a miss or just tighten up your dispersion?

 

Are your path and ftp numbers consistently close to those you posted?

[DShepley]

3 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Do you have a face on?

Not at the moment. I'll work on delaying that hip turn for a bit then get one.

[DShepley]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Are you trying to reduce a miss or just tighten up your dispersion?

 

Are your path and ftp numbers consistently close to those you posted?

Looking for consistency. I feel like I fall into bad habits when I get tired late in a round. Just trying to tighten things up a little.   The numbers are pretty typical though my miss is left biased. I can fight getting steep in transition and missing with a pull hook.

[CSagan]

 

Feel like this couldn't hurt. Hit some flighted wedges/short irons. Will get your arms and body more connected. You could just do it and feel like you keep your right leg slightly flexed and not think about hip turn...once your ribcage turns the club back your hips will move anyways.

 

And some of this. Practice hinging the wrists then rotating to the top with the ribcage. You'll feel  a tremendous stretch in your lats and obliques.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cu4TcvZsHWg/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

 

Edited January 21, 2024 by CSagan

[getitdaily]

18 minutes ago, DShepley said:

Looking for consistency. I feel like I fall into bad habits when I get tired late in a round. Just trying to tighten things up a little.   The numbers are pretty typical though my miss is left biased. I can fight getting steep in transition and missing with a pull hook.

Really good motion. A couple of things that I see that you can toy with.

 

1. Get 1 or 2 balls closer to the ball.

2. Bend a bit more at the hips to get a bit steeper shoulder turn.

 

Let's see a face on so we can see Ball position and how/when you shift pressure.

[DShepley]

41 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Really good motion. A couple of things that I see that you can toy with.

 

1. Get 1 or 2 balls closer to the ball.

2. Bend a bit more at the hips to get a bit steeper shoulder turn.

 

Let's see a face on so we can see Ball position and how/when you shift pressure.

Thanks I'll play around with standing closer. I definitely have a tendency to let my ball position creep forward which might help explain the pull hook miss.

Edited January 21, 2024 by DShepley

[DShepley]

My pea brain won't let me try two things at once, so taking Monte's advice I tried to delay my hip turn a bit, (I'll work on the earlier wrist set later). I'm not sure this is a whole lot different but the feel was that I took it to the top with only my shoulder turn. Contact felt nice but I didn't plug the launch monitor in. (It's Sunday night....please disregard my pajamas)

 

 

[getitdaily]

11 hours ago, DShepley said:

My pea brain won't let me try two things at once, so taking Monte's advice I tried to delay my hip turn a bit, (I'll work on the earlier wrist set later). I'm not sure this is a whole lot different but the feel was that I took it to the top with only my shoulder turn. Contact felt nice but I didn't plug the launch monitor in. (It's Sunday night....please disregard my pajamas)

 

 

That video angle suggests that you're closer to the ball. Did you setup normally or get closer?

[DShepley]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

That video angle suggests that you're closer to the ball. Did you setup normally or get closer?

I tried to stand a bit closer.  I find getting a steeper shoulder turn difficult, I'm only 5'7" and come from a baseball background so I've always been on the flat side.  I'll work on it though.  I also need a more consistent camera set up.  Currently I clip a phone holder to my desk chair but it ends up slightly different each time.  I think I will get a tripod and mark the floor position so I am setting it up consistently.  I think key over the winter will be to validate improvement by taking more video.

 

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I tried to stand a bit closer.  I find getting a steeper shoulder turn difficult, I'm only 5'7" and come from a baseball background so I've always been on the flat side.  I'll work on it though.  I also need a more consistent camera set up.  Currently I clip a phone holder to my desk chair but it ends up slightly different each time.  I think I will get a tripod and mark the floor position so I am setting it up consistently.  I think key over the winter will be to validate improvement by taking more video.

 

100%. That's the feedback that validates. Combine video feedback with launch monitor data and you really start to see what you feel that produces or influences delivery...

[DShepley]

A better video angle I think. I picked up a tripod and marked a spot where I can place it in line with my hands so now I can compare from the same angle. Trail knee looks a bit better.  I don't like how I twist my left foot open but not sure it's the end of the world.  Shaft through transition is a bit steep I think and I'd like to see my hand path move down more and not out as much...I have a theory that if I work on closing the clubface earlier, that the hand path will react favorably. I'll try it and report back. Anybody have any thoughts?

 

[MPStrat]

I think you make a pretty darn good downswing relative to what you do in the backswing. You did a nice job reducing the pelvis over-rotation. The inevitable physics of the outside takeaway make your life harder and limit what you can do in the downswing. Something like this video would help. Hands need to work in more as the club stays out initially. It’s kind of a chicken or egg thing but this is also part of what is needed to steepen the shoulders a hair. The thing you have working against you in making a change is that you can hit it well with your current takeaway but that’s the root of all the things you don’t like seeing in your swing and ballflight. 

 

 

[DShepley]

19 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

I think you make a pretty darn good downswing relative to what you do in the backswing. You did a nice job reducing the pelvis over-rotation. The inevitable physics of the outside takeaway make your life harder and limit what you can do in the downswing. Something like this video would help. Hands need to work in more as the club stays out initially. It’s kind of a chicken or egg thing but this is also part of what is needed to steepen the shoulders a hair. The thing you have working against you in making a change is that you can hit it well with your current takeaway but that’s the root of all the things you don’t like seeing in your swing and ballflight. 

 

 

Yes, I can see this and when I get into trouble is when I'm tired and get a bit lazy.  I push my club away on the takeaway and don't get enough depth at the top.  It doesn't give me room to stay inside and I end up steep coming down with a pull hook miss.  I'll drill the take away to see if I can clean it up.  Small focus and lots of video check in.  That's my indoor plan.  Thanks!

[Primo1868]

10 hours ago, MPStrat said:

I think you make a pretty darn good downswing relative to what you do in the backswing. You did a nice job reducing the pelvis over-rotation. The inevitable physics of the outside takeaway make your life harder and limit what you can do in the downswing. Something like this video would help. Hands need to work in more as the club stays out initially. It’s kind of a chicken or egg thing but this is also part of what is needed to steepen the shoulders a hair. The thing you have working against you in making a change is that you can hit it well with your current takeaway but that’s the root of all the things you don’t like seeing in your swing and ballflight. 

 

 

I really like this explanation of wrist set.

[DShepley]

2 hours ago, Primo1868 said:

I really like this explanation of wrist set.

So do I, it's quite good and my plan is to drill some repeated takeaways to try to get this down.  First I'll drill the handle up and in, (the 18" of clubhead travel), then I'll add in the wrist set and then I will start hitting 3/4 shots.

[DShepley]

So....back to the takeaway.  I'm going to work on this drill I am doing in the video and trust that eventually the motion will start to feel normal and not like poo.  I will also be less concerned for now about the quality of the contact as this feels VERY VERY different than my normal swing.  Is this drill a good use of my time? (Side note...I understand that it should feel very different otherwise there isn't a significant change....this I can confirm)

 

 

[virtuoso]

21 minutes ago, DShepley said:

So....back to the takeaway.  I'm going to work on this drill I am doing in the video and trust that eventually the motion will start to feel normal and not like poo.  I will also be less concerned for now about the quality of the contact as this feels VERY VERY different than my normal swing.  Is this drill a good use of my time? (Side note...I understand that it should feel very different otherwise there isn't a significant change....this I can confirm)

 

 

You're going to have some frustration while you try to work on inside take away while simultaneously working on delaying/reducing your hip turn because they will tend to work at cross purposes.

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, virtuoso said:

You're going to have some frustration while you try to work on inside take away while simultaneously working on delaying/reducing your hip turn because they will tend to work at cross purposes.

Yeah, you're starting to commit the unforgivable swing change sin...

 

Too many changes all.at once.

 

You better slow it down and take your time or you'll end up with a poo swing when your weather improves.

[DShepley]

30 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, you're starting to commit the unforgivable swing change sin...

 

Too many changes all.at once.

 

You better slow it down and take your time or you'll end up with a poo swing when your weather improves.

I'm going to leave the hips for now and drill the takeaway.  When I get lazy, the outside takeaway leaves me with too little depth and makes it hard to stay on the inside if you know what I mean.  My hope is that by working on the first foot of hand travel, it will lead me to a more repeatable pattern.  Perhaps I'm wrong?  If you were picking one or the other to start with, what would it be? Maybe I'm crazy and I shouldn't try to make changes and just roll with what I've got?

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I'm going to leave the hips for now and drill the takeaway.  When I get lazy, the outside takeaway leaves me with too little depth and makes it hard to stay on the inside if you know what I mean.  My hope is that by working on the first foot of hand travel, it will lead me to a more repeatable pattern.  Perhaps I'm wrong?  If you were picking one or the other to start with, what would it be? Maybe I'm crazy and I shouldn't try to make changes and just roll with what I've got?

Not sure what your miss is and which of those 2 changes improves that miss more...that would be my guidance. A change to one could require a change to the other...

 

I'm all about making improvements, especially since you've got launch monitor data feedback. So go for it. But I would at least seek advice from an instructor.

 

When I started my changes in nov/Dec of 22 I went the following route...

 

Change 1 - earlier lead side pressure and more up and away from target in downswing. (Goal was to significantly reduce lateral slide in downswing) 

 

Change 2 - ball position, back a touch and closer to me. This change required an add-on change to be less steep

 

Change 1 was easy. Change 2 has been complicated but rewarding. My path and ftp tightened up significantly. 

 

So start with what you want to improve and then get a drill to do it and rep it until you see numbers change. 

 

Change 1 saw me start to hit more pulls (I'm a fader). So change 1 required the implementation of change 2.  

[Rosco1216]

Not a bad action at all. Shoulder turn not too flat IMO. 2 things I see are..

 

1. over run of the arms and club in the back swing and trail elbow raises and flares out. Still on left side looks very good vs overrun on right.

2. body/pelvis stalling coming into and at impact. P5 on left looks good. Post impact on right the pelvis and hips have barely changed thus flipping over through impact.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Rosco1216

[DShepley]

7 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

Not a bad action at all. Shoulder turn not too flat IMO. 2 things I see are..

 

1. over run of the arms and club in the back swing and trail elbow raises and flares out. Still on left side looks very good vs overrun on right.

2. body/pelvis stalling coming into and at impact. P5 on left looks good. Post impact on right the pelvis and hips have barely changed thus flipping over through impact.

I expect the clubface is open and that's creating the stall.

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, DShepley said:

So....back to the takeaway.  I'm going to work on this drill I am doing in the video and trust that eventually the motion will start to feel normal and not like poo.  I will also be less concerned for now about the quality of the contact as this feels VERY VERY different than my normal swing.  Is this drill a good use of my time? (Side note...I understand that it should feel very different otherwise there isn't a significant change....this I can confirm)

 

 

Like I mentioned to you before, you’re a good player who has learned to play decent golf with some swing issues. This allows doubt and apprehension to creep into your mind when making a change. In some ways it’s a lot easier for someone who stinks to make a change because they don’t run the risk of losing something. They never really had much to begin. No one can really say for sure if making any change is worth your time. That’s something that requires faith that you’re going down the right road. It gets even more difficult working through things in your own and without the trust and guidance of someone in person.
 

One thing I can promise you is that you will never defeat the effect of what happens early in your swing. You will always have the limitations that come from those “errors” as long as you make them.

 

Both the hip spin and the takeaway are issues that lead to other issues later in the swing. As @virtuoso said, they both have a big influence on each other. 
 

You were able to make a fairly big change to reduce to the over rotation in a short amount of time just working on that alone. Keep in mind that If you spin the hips too much while trying to change the takeaway, it’s no good.
 

The takeaway is usually the more difficult pattern of the two to change. For you, I don’t mind the segmented one piece drill here. One way you could potentially incorporate both is “no hip turn, one piece to the trail leg with the intention of turning only the shoulders and zero turn of the pelvis” this is one move, set then swing 

 

If you’re going to drill the takeaway, I would exaggerate the inward movement of the hands more in the first few feet. What feels like crazy inside with the hands will probably only be a small difference. 

[MPStrat]

Also, if your mind is set on taking this on as a project, I would post a face on as well. There are likely things that would make your life easier and potentially some things that will help to more efficiently incorporate the dtl changes