Torrey vs Riviera

[Dutch1008]

4 minutes ago, billyspan said:

Good call on The Park West Palm. A gem.

 

See also Soule Park in Ojai, CA.  Hanse reworked another Bell design (like Torrey).  I believe this is one of Hanse's first jobs in 2005.  The greens and surrounds are fantastic.

https://www.soulepark.com/

 

 

$49 on the weekend?!?! Be still my heart. 

[aenemated]

On 1/24/2024 at 9:51 AM, billyspan said:

Oh man, my heart breaks when you talk about Griffith Park.  What could have been!!  See image below from the 1937 Los Angeles Open - Wilson Routing.  The course had some amazing sandy wash areas pre the catastrophic 1938 LA-area floods and 1924-26 building of what would become the I-5 freeway separating the course from the LA river (bottom of picture below).   Those floods turned the LA and surrounding rivers into the dead concrete monstrosities they are today and changed the Griffith Park courses forever.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. I stand by what I said. Riv is only the name because it's private and carries a big celeb number to be able to play it. 

 

Harding and Wilson are every bit great courses inland in LA as Riv. And really, none of them are all that great or memorable. 

[billyspan]

4 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Exactly. I stand by what I said. Riv is only the name because it's private and carries a big celeb number to be able to play it. 

 

Harding and Wilson are every bit great courses inland in LA as Riv. And really, none of them are all that great or memorable. 

Love that LACC North, Riviera, Griffith Park Wilson & Bel Air all have the George C. Thomas start of a reachable par 5 followed by a tough par 4.

 

I need to check out Oak Quarry.  I love the Griffith courses, but many of the original holes have been altered for the freeway and ballfields.  As a result both the Wilson and Harding are rather cramped in areas.  They are not in my LA-area top 10. 😕

[Pepperturbo]

I've played both Torrey and Riviera, but spent more time playing Riviera.   IMO the only thing Torrey has are the bluff views, take away that, north and south do not measure up to Riviera's storied history dating back to "29."  Course I am bias, knew the Hathaway family, and not a youngster.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Pepperturbo

[billyspan]

Torrey Pines South Course max yardage 7765 (par 72).  Looks like they didn't quite max things out during any round this week.  I'm still waiting for this place to be the first (correct me if I am wrong please) 8000 plus Tour course.  They have the room!

[aenemated]

8 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

IMO the only thing Torrey has are the bluff views, take away that, north and south do not measure up to Riviera's storied history dating back to "29." 

 

"If you take away all the things that are rad, it sucks."

 

Go play the Harding at Griffith Park for $50 and you've played Riviera. 

[isaacbm]

Had some buddies at the house for SIM night last weekend. We played 5 holes at Torrey and it looked so bland that we went on to a different course. They wouldn’t believe me when I told them in real life it’s great! Hard to get ocean views and the smell of the sea air into my basement on the prairies  in Canada… 

    But that’s really the appeal of Torrey. 
Great setting. But average course. Not bad in any way but the individual holes are not very  memorable. 

[Pepperturbo]

8 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

"If you take away all the things that are rad, it sucks."

 

Go play the Harding at Griffith Park for $50 and you've played Riviera. 

In your estimation, maybe.  Having the whole club experience I have with Riviera, not in mine.  There's NO comparison.

[mosesgolf]

8 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

"If you take away all the things that are rad, it sucks."

 

Go play the Harding at Griffith Park for $50 and you've played Riviera. 

I've played Harding numerous times and been to Riviera numerous times. This statement is just so WRONG.  Not sorry to say 100%.  I've shot 68 at Harding from the tips and it's a boring course.  On my best day I'd be lucky to shoot 78 from the tips at Riv.  Sorry for the humble brag. 😁

 

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

In your estimation, maybe.  Having the whole club experience I have with Riviera, not in mine.  There's NO comparison.

A big part of what makes RIV so special IMO is the experience, the iconic golf history. Are there other courses that are ~$50 that just hole to hole wise and not taking anything else into consideration, that can compare? I’m sure some think there are. BUT the history is absolutely a huge part of it. It’s like having two identical Strats. One was bought at the local music store the other was used on tour and to make “albums” by Clapton. Does @aenemated say meh, the one from the local music store is just as good and is under $2k… Doubt it. 

Edited January 30, 2024 by TiScape

[TiScape]

50 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

I've played Harding numerous times and been to Riviera numerous times. This statement is just so WRONG.  Not sorry to say 100%.  I've shot 68 at Harding from the tips and it's a boring course.  On my best day I'd be lucky to shoot 78 from the tips at Riv.  Sorry for the humble brag. 😁

 

Me thinks aenemated was 86’d from RIV and is scorned like an ex-boyfriend! 😂 

[puresurfr]

........... repeat post

Edited January 30, 2024 by puresurfr

[Pepperturbo]

30 minutes ago, TiScape said:

A big part of what makes RIV so special IMO is the experience, the iconic golf history. Are there other courses that are ~$50 that just hole to hole wise and not taking anything else into consideration, that can compare? I’m sure some think there are. BUT the history is absolutely a huge part of it. It’s like having two identical Strats. One was bought at the local music store the other was used on tour and to make “albums” by Clapton. Does @aenemated say meh, the one from the local music store is just as good and is under $2k… Doubt it. 

Many people look only at golf, maybe it's cost, while overlooking or not putting a value on the greater influence of a club's history on those that play there.  Can't recall how many times I've stood on a tee and thought what did Hogan do.  His Five lessons was a key book of three I used to teach myself the game, so there's a huge connection.

 

There's no comparison between having a look-alike 'Strats' and having the 'one' used by Clapton.  Unfortunately, some people don't get it. 

Edited January 30, 2024 by Pepperturbo

[mosesgolf]

9 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

"If you take away all the things that are rad, it sucks."

 

Go play the Harding at Griffith Park for $50 and you've played Riviera. 

I play just about every course in So Cal in our regular 4some rotation.

 

The bottom 3 courses in So Cal imo and courses we don't play are

1.  Knollwood hello 5.5-6 hour rounds plus every hole is driver wedge except for hole #1

2. I'll be nice and not say 😁

3. Harding 

 

Wilson is nice imo but Harding is as boring as it gets.

 

Riviera is as iconic as it gets and to consider it on same level as Harding is blasphemy and deserves a time out penalty from WRX.  😂

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Many people look only at golf, maybe it's cost, while overlooking or not putting a value on the greater influence of a club's history on those that play there.  Can't recall how many times I've stood on a tee and thought what did Hogan do.  His Five lessons was a key book of three I used to teach myself the game, so there's a huge connection.

 

There's no comparison between having a look-alike 'Strats' and having the 'one' used by Clapton.  Unfortunately, some people don't get it. 

I still betcha aen knows and agrees Riv is far superior to Harding and there is something more personal to the story/reason that has him a lil bitter. Bcs I know he’s into golf history and appreciates iconic courses. It’s about the only way m not gonna think he just crazy! 😆 

Edited January 30, 2024 by TiScape

[Obee]

It's not even close if you have played them both. Riv is ... special. Top 40 course in the world. Torrey is ... a long, difficult course with some ocean views. Virtually nothing architecturally interesting about the entire course. Just played it in a tournament a few months back and have played it on the Monday after the Farmers from the pro tees. Same pins, etc. I play Riv once a year in a charity event and have for the last 5 or 6 years.

All IMHO only, of course.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Obee

[Obee]

14 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

"If you take away all the things that are rad, it sucks."

 

Go play the Harding at Griffith Park for $50 and you've played Riviera. 

With all due respect, you have some of the all-time worst takes in GolfWRX history.

And before you get all bent out of shape, remember that I said, "With all due respect" ....

[Obee]

And by the way, @aenemated, I love both Griffith courses. Play the LA City Senior there every year. Both fun!

[toddnt]

Love the hate for Torrey.... All those that dislike it, freaking love it, so keep your tails off it.. Makes it easier for locals to get tee time.. Visitors..Scat!!!

[9thGreenAt9]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

It's not even close if you have played them both. Riv is ... special. Top 40 course in the world. Torrey is ... a long, difficult course with some ocean views. Virtually nothing architecturally interesting about the entire course. Just played it in a tournament a few months back and have played it on the Monday after the Farmers from the pro tees. Same pins, etc. I play Riv once a year in a charity event and have for the last 5 or 6 years.

All IMHO only, of course.

 

what charity event is this? and can  I join in on it?? I've never played Riv just walked it a few times during the tournament and played Torrey South twice, it's Riv no question but I'd say Torrey is still a solid track, maybe even underrated imo. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by golf_junkie_85

[manku]

14 hours ago, toddnt said:

Love the hate for Torrey.... All those that dislike it, freaking love it, so keep your tails off it.. Makes it easier for locals to get tee time.. Visitors..Scat!!!

 

 

It's $292 for visitors on the weekend (SC)...tack on another $30 for a cart, which many take.

 

And I'd imagine it's a 5 hour plus round...

 

Pass!

[Pepperturbo]

16 hours ago, toddnt said:

Love the hate for Torrey.... All those that dislike it, freaking love it, so keep your tails off it.. Makes it easier for locals to get tee time.. Visitors..Scat!!!

Having played both, there's NO hate for Torrey; it's the comparison to Riviera.  Like comparing a Shelby Cobra 427 to a Porsche GT3.  The only commonality is that each has four tires and goes fast.

[mosesgolf]

12 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Having played both, there's NO hate for Torrey; it's the comparison to Riviera.  Like comparing a Shelby Cobra 427 to a Porsche GT3.  The only commonality is that each has four tires and goes fast.

You're being too kind putting Torrey on a GT3 level.  😇

[Pepperturbo]

49 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

You're being too kind putting Torrey on a GT3 level.  😇

You got that backwards, boy... LOL  Cobra 427 standard 165 +/- mph, doesn't have a chance against precision GT3 standard 198 +/- mph, not to mention Le Mans track worthy. 😛

 

7400 = 76.3 144 Tactical & long = Riv

7800 = 78.8 148 Just bomber long = Torrey

 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Pepperturbo

[mosesgolf]

25 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

You got that backwards, boy... LOL  Cobra 427 standard 165 +/- mph, doesn't have a chance against precision GT3 standard 198 +/- mph, not to mention Le Mans track worthy. 😛

 

7400 = 76.3 144 Tactical & long = Riv

7800 = 78.8 148 Just bomber long = Torrey

 

Hmmm.  In my view Cobra 427 is as ICONIC as it gets for coolest of cool muscle cars.  Which one sells for more on an auction block?

 

If Torrey and Rivera were up for sale which course has a chance for selling for $1billion?  No chance for Torrey.    It's not all about top speed sir.  😂

[Obee]

On 1/29/2024 at 3:51 PM, aenemated said:

 

Exactly. I stand by what I said. Riv is only the name because it's private and carries a big celeb number to be able to play it. 

 

Harding and Wilson are every bit great courses inland in LA as Riv. And really, none of them are all that great or memorable. 

Riviera "not memorable"??? Wow.

What is memorable to you?

Other than the opening hole (where's it's nice to be able to start with a "gimme" par 5), I love every hole out there and can remember every one and I've only played Riv 7 or 8 times. And my memory is fading!

[wedgegame]

On 1/22/2024 at 9:52 PM, Hankshank said:

Noone remember Torrey 18 everyone remember Riviera 18

Funny this is actually one of the most memorable holes for me, at least as far as TV coverage goes.   It has a silly little pond and makes for some great finishes with eagle in play but not guaranteed.   I know it's fashionable to bang on Torrey these days, but I do appreciate it for what it is.  Having only walked Riv and LACC and played Torrey,  would rather play the formers over Torrey any day.  Of course that's not likely to happen, hence my appreciation for what Torrey brings to the golf world.

[Obee]

5 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

Funny this is actually one of the most memorable holes for me, at least as far as TV coverage goes.   It has a silly little pond and makes for some great finishes with eagle in play but not guaranteed.   I know it's fashionable to bang on Torrey these days, but I do appreciate it for what it is.  Having only walked Riv and LACC and played Torrey,  would rather play the formers over Torrey any day.  Of course that's not likely to happen, hence my appreciation for what Torrey brings to the golf world.

Don't get me wrong, I like Torrey. I forked over good money to play it in the San Diego City and would happily play it again. It's just not at all "inspiring" to me, for its shot values or architecture. Would rather play Rustic Canyon any day of the week. In fact, if they were all $100 I would prefer Soule Park and Rustic to Torrey. And if they were all in elite shape, it's not even close. Would MUCH prefer both Soule and Rustic to Torrey.

And I LOVE the ocean!

[Obee]

On 1/29/2024 at 3:44 PM, Dutch1008 said:

 

$49 on the weekend?!?! Be still my heart. 

Yup. One of the best values in golf. That course is DAMN FUN. And the hang is great at their little bar/grille.

 

[Obee]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:55 AM, mosesgolf said:

I've played Harding numerous times and been to Riviera numerous times. This statement is just so WRONG.  Not sorry to say 100%.  I've shot 68 at Harding from the tips and it's a boring course.  On my best day I'd be lucky to shoot 78 from the tips at Riv.  Sorry for the humble brag. 😁

 

Same. Have shot in the 60's at both Wilson and Harding in competition from the tips and I can do the same at Riv ... from 6,600. Move me back to the big boy tees and there's zero chance. It just has much more defense -- while still maintaining a level of "fairness" that I really admire.

From tees that play relatively long (depending on the golfer), Riv is one of those wonderful "easy bogey, hard par" courses that I love on certain holes. Double-bogey is usually not much in play at Riv for a skilled golfer, but it's EASY to reel off a string of bogeys even when you're hitting it pretty well. I love that about it.

Edited January 31, 2024 by Obee