Shaft puzzlement

[bobfoster]

May sound foolish, but I've just been obsessing on watching WLD videos (what the heck, it's too cold outside to play). Never paid much attention before. 

 

Curious, at least to me. In the vast majority of shaft discussions (in the "normal" Equipment section), weight and flex seem to ramp up proportionate to swing speed. I'm 66 yo, now down to ~90SS (getting old seriously blows). Have moved to a plain vanilla R flex, 58g light shaft (though I've added weight to my TSR2 head, and a couple grip wraps, kept SW w/in my D3 - D4 comfort zone). My 100 - 110 SS buddies are mostly playing stiff in the 65 - 70g range. And most of the pros that are in the 115 - 120+ SS all seem to play at least 60g - 75g  shafts, with X-Stiff (or even 2X). This is the "conventional wisdom". Old and slow = shaft light and flexible. Young and fast = heavier and stiffer. 

 

Then I watch the WLD, and some of these guys look like they are literally hitting light, whippy ropes. I'd almost mistake them for swing trainers. Yeah, the Orange Whip I warm my body up before rounds bends like that, but not my damn club. Like, massive, "surprised it didn't break" shaft bends in the WLD competitions (looks like they are playing senior flex for goodness sake).

 

Now I'm not a golf noob here, I get that there's a direct relationship between flex and dispersion (in fact just went to a Ventus TR in my driver because the stiffer tip gives me more control without a lot of loss in distance). The more you can load it, the more you can bend it, the longer you can hit it, but the less you can control it. The physics of golf swing mechanics are brutal. And I do get that LD is a very different game - they are fine with hitting 4 out of 6 OB if one or two go 420+. Watching Kyle Berkshire is a trip - his swing looks like an flippin' epileptic grand mal seizure ... he'll hook or slice it 50 yards OB on five shots, and then hit his 6th center club straight 460 yards. It does not even seem physically possible to hit 150+ SS., but several of these guys do. 

 

But still, I'm kind of wondering why the pros haven't been experimenting with lighter, more flexible shafts - some sort of common ground between the extreme LD bombs and the ~300 average on the PGAT (which is insanely long for us amateurs, but is kinda pathetic, and doesn't even get you past the quarters in WLD competitions). Why Martin Borgmeier uses a freaking 50g ladies flex shaft, and Rory uses a TR 6 X shaft. 

 

Nothing important here - just aimless ramblings on a mid-winter night. Don't expect anyone to actually comment. 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2024 by bobfoster

[phizzy30]

The WLD guys are trying to maximize distance so lighter and whippier in theory would make sense.  The guys on tour aren't trying to max distance but rather find a happy medium that gives them acceptable dispersion with optimal distance therefore tend to go heavier and stiffer which can help more with timing and keep spin to manageable levels. 

[huesos]

Martin Borgmeir started using the TPT 21 high shaft that has about a 200 CPM rating. Uncut, this thing is super flexible. I have the 20 high and I have to be careful in how I time it.

[phizzy30]

On 5/10/2024 at 12:17 PM, huesos said:

Martin Borgmeir started using the TPT 21 high shaft that has about a 200 CPM rating. Uncut, this thing is super flexible. I have the 20 high and I have to be careful in how I time it.

I had the 15 or 16 HI(can't remember, lol) and that bad boy felt really stiff with no kick.  I liked how stable it was.  I've noticed the same with the WLD guys going lighter and whippier lately.  All about distance.  I myself could never put an ultra lite shaft that's really soft in the bag.  I've tried it before and dispersion was really bad and timing it was tough although when I did nut one, it went 20 yards further. 

[Tbone107]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:54 PM, bobfoster said:

May sound foolish, but I've just been obsessing on watching WLD videos (what the heck, it's too cold outside to play). Never paid much attention before. 

 

Curious, at least to me. In the vast majority of shaft discussions (in the "normal" Equipment section), weight and flex seem to ramp up proportionate to swing speed. I'm 66 yo, now down to ~90SS (getting old seriously blows). Have moved to a plain vanilla R flex, 58g light shaft (though I've added weight to my TSR2 head, and a couple grip wraps, kept SW w/in my D3 - D4 comfort zone). My 100 - 110 SS buddies are mostly playing stiff in the 65 - 70g range. And most of the pros that are in the 115 - 120+ SS all seem to play at least 60g - 75g  shafts, with X-Stiff (or even 2X). This is the "conventional wisdom". Old and slow = shaft light and flexible. Young and fast = heavier and stiffer. 

 

Then I watch the WLD, and some of these guys look like they are literally hitting light, whippy ropes. I'd almost mistake them for swing trainers. Yeah, the Orange Whip I warm my body up before rounds bends like that, but not my damn club. Like, massive, "surprised it didn't break" shaft bends in the WLD competitions (looks like they are playing senior flex for goodness sake).

 

Now I'm not a golf noob here, I get that there's a direct relationship between flex and dispersion (in fact just went to a Ventus TR in my driver because the stiffer tip gives me more control without a lot of loss in distance). The more you can load it, the more you can bend it, the longer you can hit it, but the less you can control it. The physics of golf swing mechanics are brutal. And I do get that LD is a very different game - they are fine with hitting 4 out of 6 OB if one or two go 420+. Watching Kyle Berkshire is a trip - his swing looks like an flippin' epileptic grand mal seizure ... he'll hook or slice it 50 yards OB on five shots, and then hit his 6th center club straight 460 yards. It does not even seem physically possible to hit 150+ SS., but several of these guys do. 

 

But still, I'm kind of wondering why the pros haven't been experimenting with lighter, more flexible shafts - some sort of common ground between the extreme LD bombs and the ~300 average on the PGAT (which is insanely long for us amateurs, but is kinda pathetic, and doesn't even get you past the quarters in WLD competitions). Why Martin Borgmeier uses a freaking 50g ladies flex shaft, and Rory uses a TR 6 X shaft. 

 

Nothing important here - just aimless ramblings on a mid-winter night. Don't expect anyone to actually comment. 

 

 

I've kind of found a middle ground here. N=1 but I am playing a kinetixx Velocity D30+ in driver which is ~62g and 245 CPM at 140 mph driver swing speed on course, and since pairing it with a Krank Fire 5 degree head I've honestly never hit it more accurately.. I think its a unique thing that if you give it a little time you can reap all of the distance rewards without losing too much or anything from the dispersion side. Driving accuracy has never been a strong point of mine with a lifetime worth of OEM and TX shafts, but has gotten markedly better since I've made the switch.

[Kwward11]

If anyone wants to tinker, I’ve got an uncut TPT Nitro 17Hi sitting in the garage I’ll cut a smoking deal on lol 

[Studliness]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:54 PM, bobfoster said:

May sound foolish, but I've just been obsessing on watching WLD videos (what the heck, it's too cold outside to play). Never paid much attention before. 

 

Curious, at least to me. In the vast majority of shaft discussions (in the "normal" Equipment section), weight and flex seem to ramp up proportionate to swing speed. I'm 66 yo, now down to ~90SS (getting old seriously blows). Have moved to a plain vanilla R flex, 58g light shaft (though I've added weight to my TSR2 head, and a couple grip wraps, kept SW w/in my D3 - D4 comfort zone). My 100 - 110 SS buddies are mostly playing stiff in the 65 - 70g range. And most of the pros that are in the 115 - 120+ SS all seem to play at least 60g - 75g  shafts, with X-Stiff (or even 2X). This is the "conventional wisdom". Old and slow = shaft light and flexible. Young and fast = heavier and stiffer. 

 

Then I watch the WLD, and some of these guys look like they are literally hitting light, whippy ropes. I'd almost mistake them for swing trainers. Yeah, the Orange Whip I warm my body up before rounds bends like that, but not my damn club. Like, massive, "surprised it didn't break" shaft bends in the WLD competitions (looks like they are playing senior flex for goodness sake).

 

Now I'm not a golf noob here, I get that there's a direct relationship between flex and dispersion (in fact just went to a Ventus TR in my driver because the stiffer tip gives me more control without a lot of loss in distance). The more you can load it, the more you can bend it, the longer you can hit it, but the less you can control it. The physics of golf swing mechanics are brutal. And I do get that LD is a very different game - they are fine with hitting 4 out of 6 OB if one or two go 420+. Watching Kyle Berkshire is a trip - his swing looks like an flippin' epileptic grand mal seizure ... he'll hook or slice it 50 yards OB on five shots, and then hit his 6th center club straight 460 yards. It does not even seem physically possible to hit 150+ SS., but several of these guys do. 

 

But still, I'm kind of wondering why the pros haven't been experimenting with lighter, more flexible shafts - some sort of common ground between the extreme LD bombs and the ~300 average on the PGAT (which is insanely long for us amateurs, but is kinda pathetic, and doesn't even get you past the quarters in WLD competitions). Why Martin Borgmeier uses a freaking 50g ladies flex shaft, and Rory uses a TR 6 X shaft. 

 

Nothing important here - just aimless ramblings on a mid-winter night. Don't expect anyone to actually comment. 

 

 

This is really interesting, was not aware of the trend.  I have heard stories of Freddy Couples swinging ladies shafts to the tempo of "Freddy (on the backswing) Couples (downswing)" with the mantra "play a shaft as flexible as you can control".  But his tempo was so smooth.

 

Interesting to see some long drivers are going at it with a wet noodle just trying to square one up.