Irons, upright lie angles, shaft lean, compression.

[BigZoots]

I’m glad to hear that you found something that is working for you with the flatter lie. I’ve always been a fan of erroring on the side of overly flat vs. too upright. I think so many people get “fit” and never test anything else, it’s a disservice to their game. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

10 hours ago, virtuoso said:

I work with tour pros that can’t change the height of the handle at impact and you’re asking “Harold” to do it.

Well, the tour pro that actually told me many years ago to have my irons soled flat would wipe the floor with you and the other 'pros' on here. 

Edited February 4, 2024 by tthomasgolfer605

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Well, the tour pro that actually told me many years ago to have my irons soled flat would wipe the floor with you and the other 'pros' on here. 

So what you’re saying is you’ve run out of arguments. If he can’t give me 3 shots a side, then he lost his card shortly after you talked to him.

 

Also, taking the average golfer who slices the ball and telling him to fit the lie angle so that the club soles flat on the ground at address is teaching and fitting professional malpractice.

 

But, if you hook the ball, you can purposely make the club play too flat and it can point the face less left, albeit toe down at impact, and it will probably help. This is what is happening with the op.

 

If you want to do a video where you show me your swing down the line, and give me sample swings with different impact handle heights, to show me how feasible it is…..then be my guest. I’ll wait right here.

 

Edited February 5, 2024 by virtuoso

[Pnwpingi210]

6 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

So what you’re saying is you’ve run out of arguments. If he can’t give me 3 shots a side, then he lost his card shortly after you talked to him.

 

Also, taking the average golfer who slices the ball and telling him to fit the lie angle so that the club soles flat on the ground at address is teaching and fitting professional malpractice.

 

But, if you hook the ball, you can purposely make the club play too flat and it can point the face less left, albeit toe down at impact, and it will probably help. This is what is happening with the op.

 

If you want to do a video where you show me your swing down the line, and give me sample swings with different impact handle heights, to show me how feasible it is…..then be my guest. I’ll wait right here.

 

I’m the op.  What appears to be happening with me is I’m adjusting my swing to fit how the club looks at address, raising my hands and standing more upright at address so the clubs sits slightly toe up at 64 degrees.  When I move it to two flat from ping standard (60 degree) I hip hinge more and have my hands lower at address, and still have a toe slight up at address. I realize address and impact aren’t the same.

 

At impact I am still able to deliver the flat club  with delivered lie between 0.5 and -1.  The big change we saw at impact was my dynamic loft dropped around 4 degrees, which I needed.  
 

this of course is all indoors off mats and a limited sample size.  I plan to adjust my current clubs flatter and work with my coach to see if it fits what we are trying to do.  They won’t recommend I continue with the flat clubs if it’s a band aid. I’ll update in the next 30 days

 

thanks for all the input on this.
 

[virtuoso]

16 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I’m the op.  What appears to be happening with me is I’m adjusting my swing to fit how the club looks at address, raising my hands and standing more upright at address so the clubs sits slightly toe up at 64 degrees.  When I move it to two flat from ping standard (60 degree) I hip hinge more and have my hands lower at address, and still have a toe slight up at address. I realize address and impact aren’t the same.

 

At impact I am still able to deliver the flat club  with delivered lie between 0.5 and -1.  The big change we saw at impact was my dynamic loft dropped around 4 degrees, which I needed.  
 

this of course is all indoors off mats and a limited sample size.  I plan to adjust my current clubs flatter and work with my coach to see if it fits what we are trying to do.  They won’t recommend I continue with the flat clubs if it’s a band aid. I’ll update in the next 30 days

 

thanks for all the input on this.
 

When you were fit previously for plus 1/2 and 2-3 degrees upright, was that measurement taken using a lie board or a chart?

 

I’m not trying to argue with your experience. Thomasgolfer is being a jack@ss. But i will tell you this. In 30 years of fitting and teaching, ive never seen anyone switch lie angles and suddenly deliver the handle at a different height to match the club. Handle more back or forward? Sometimes. Handle up or down? No.

Edited February 5, 2024 by virtuoso

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

When you were fit previously for plus 1/2 and 2-3 degrees upright, was that measurement taken using a lie board or a chart?

 

I’m not trying to argue with your experience. Thomasgolfer is being a jack@ss. But i will tell you this. In 30 years of fitting and teaching, ive never seen anyone switch lie angles and suddenly deliver the handle at a different height to match the club. Handle more back or forward? Sometimes. Handle up or down? No.

It was at a club champion, with a trackman and impact tape on the face of the club about 6 years ago.  

 

Something to consider is I’ve been working on some swing  changes, which created the pull hook ( I wasn’t pull hooking prior to swing changes, well at least not consistently).  

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

It was at a club champion, with a trackman and impact tape on the face of the club about 6 years ago.  

 

Something to consider is I’ve been working on some swing  changes, which created the pull hook ( I wasn’t pull hooking prior to swing changes, well at least not consistently).  

But no lie board? Mark on the bottom of the club? It would be impossible to know how your new dynamic lie compared to your older dynamic lie. But you keep doing what you’re doing. You and your coach will figure out what’s best.

 

In the meantime I will wait here for Thomasgolfer to come back here with a video of him changing dynamic lie angle on command…..and I will be waiting for a long time.

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

When you were fit previously for plus 1/2 and 2-3 degrees upright, was that measurement taken using a lie board or a chart?

 

I’m not trying to argue with your experience. Thomasgolfer is being a jack@ss. But i will tell you this. In 30 years of fitting and teaching, ive never seen anyone switch lie angles and suddenly deliver the handle at a different height to match the club. Handle more back or forward? Sometimes. Handle up or down? No.

It doesn't happen immediately. I had to flatten clubs about 4 degrees to get the lie where I need it. At first, the divots were toe deep. I'd say about 4 mos later I was taking dollar bill divots. No, I can't change dynamic lie on command. Never said I could. Apparently, my brain adjusted over time. Thanks for resorting to name calling. Very mature of you.

[virtuoso]

54 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

It doesn't happen immediately. I had to flatten clubs about 4 degrees to get the lie where I need it. At first, the divots were toe deep. I'd say about 4 mos later I was taking dollar bill divots. No, I can't change dynamic lie on command. Never said I could. Apparently, my brain adjusted over time. Thanks for resorting to name calling. Very mature of you.

You said the immature thing first about your tour buddy kicking all our @sses.

 

So, presumably now, your clubs sit flat on the ground at address and flat on the ground at impact. Thus your impact shaft plane is slightly lower than your address shaft plane do to dynamic shaft droop. Is this true?

[Zitlow]

9 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

It doesn't happen immediately. I had to flatten clubs about 4 degrees to get the lie where I need it. At first, the divots were toe deep. I'd say about 4 mos later I was taking dollar bill divots. No, I can't change dynamic lie on command. Never said I could. Apparently, my brain adjusted over time. Thanks for resorting to name calling. Very mature of you.

 

Yep, a ball spinning on it's horizontal axis creates lift, it flies longer and straighter. The divots are uniform rectangles. A ball spinning on any other axis creates sidespin, short and crooked. 

 

 

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

As an update - the two degrees flat (60 degree 7 iron) is working well and here to stay.

 

36 holes with the new setup and it feels and performs great.  It really encourages me to stay in my posture and cover the ball much better.    For me, this has lead to decreased dynamic loft at impact, and stock shot that starts right and falls left.  (Along with the lie change I’ve been working on compression drills)