Is this a good 7 Iron?

[upanddown]

I know the distance is good but spin seems really low, even for inside off a mat.  Is it the swing, the club or both? Others #'s not shown on chart:  smash 1.39, height 62'

 

Thanks

[iacas]

It's estimated spin. It's italic.

[Denny100]

Trackman has guessed the spin because its in italics, but id say its too low spinning and too low flying in summer conditions.

 

That being said, you dont necessarily hit the ball like that outdoors and maybe you play in conditions where a lower spin flight might help.

 

We dont know the type of ball used here either.

 

Id say youd want a 7 iron peak height to be at least 90ft

[CSagan]

Little too low with too little spin. Catch it thin?

[upanddown]

I did not know about the italics!  I did not catch this thin, I fact it was probably the highest spin of the series of 7's I hit.  They were all total around 165 -175y, 4000 to 4,800 spin.  Ball was pro v1x (my usual ball), P790 iron.  I'm trying to figure out if the irons are a good fit or should try something else.  thks

[GungHoGolf]

1 minute ago, upanddown said:

I did not know about the italics!  I did not catch this thin, I fact it was probably the highest spin of the series of 7's I hit.  They were in total around 165 -175y, 4000 to 4,800 spin.  Ball was pro v1x (my usual ball), P790 iron.  I'm trying to figure out if the irons are a good fit or should try something else.  thks

Did you put a metallic sticker on the balls, and orient it straight up or straight forward every time? If not, TM probably guessed at spin every shot (or got it wrong if not placed on the vertical axis).

 

If you don’t want to hassle with the stickers, buy yourself some ProV1x RCT balls, which can be oriented any which way and don’t need a sticker.

[getitdaily]

It may have a 7 on the bottom but it's 30*, right?

 

30* is a 6i and right around 5k spin for 6i is fine. 

[upanddown]

Yes, good point.  The 7i is 30.5 loft so maybe a better question is... Is that a good 6 iron?  Dynamic loft of 17.6 on a 30.5 iron?

[GungHoGolf]

1 hour ago, upanddown said:

Yes, good point.  The 7i is 30.5 loft so maybe a better question is... Is that a good 6 iron?  Dynamic loft of 17.6 on a 30.5 iron?

That indicates almost 13° of shaft lean at impact, which is quite a bit. Most ams have less with a mid-iron. What’s your handicap?

 

You didn’t mention your launch angle on that shot, and the screenshot didn’t have it displayed. Tour pros launch their 30° club at an average of 14°, which is probably close to where yours is considering the DL and -5° AoA. But you don’t have pro speed or spin, so you may see higher carry numbers and green holding success with less shaft lean and/or higher AoA (they tend to move together). Your apex was only 62’ (pros typically at 90-100’ with all full irons) so the descent angle was probably too shallow to stop quickly.

Edited March 27, 2024 by GungHoGolf

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

Did you put a metallic sticker on the balls, and orient it straight up or straight forward every time? If not, TM probably guessed at spin every shot (or got it wrong if not placed on the vertical axis).

 

If you don’t want to hassle with the stickers, buy yourself some ProV1x RCT balls, which can be oriented any which way and don’t need a sticker.

I wondered how those stickers needed to be positioned on the ball....  As well as how the ball needed to be placed for each shot.  Thanks!  That clears things up.

 

Still better than nothing, but definitely room for improvement the next time I use TM.

[GungHoGolf]

41 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

I wondered how those stickers needed to be positioned on the ball....  As well as how the ball needed to be placed for each shot.  Thanks!  That clears things up.

 

Still better than nothing, but definitely room for improvement the next time I use TM.

Straight up is best, so you randomize the side of the ball you hit while keeping it on the vertical axis.

 

Balls crack frequently in sims; they rarely get hit as many times on the course before you lose them or they get scuffed. And they’ll often go dead with like 20-30% shorter carry about 10-20 shots prior to you seeing a crack. 

[upanddown]

7 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

That indicates almost 13° of shaft lean at impact, which is quite a bit. Most ams have less with a mid-iron. What’s your handicap?

 

You didn’t mention your launch angle on that shot, and the screenshot didn’t have it displayed. Tour pros launch their 30° club at an average of 14°, which is probably close to where yours is considering the DL and -5° AoA. But you don’t have pro speed or spin, so you may see higher carry numbers and green holding success with less shaft lean and/or higher AoA (they tend to move together). Your apex was only 62’ (pros typically at 90-100’ with all full irons) so the descent angle was probably too shallow to stop quickly.

I'm a 10hcp. You were right on.  Launch angle was 13.4 on that shot.  I have an RCT pro v1x, I should retest using it.  Probably should also mention the shaft on the P790 is Nippon NS Pro Modus 105 T, stiff.   

[DShepley]

I would say you hit it too low and that shot isn't likely to hold a lot of greens.  What was the descent angle and how high are you hitting it?

 

[skim4]

7 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

Straight up is best, so you randomize the side of the ball you hit while keeping it on the vertical axis.

 

Balls crack frequently in sims; they rarely get hit as many times on the course before you lose them or they get scuffed. And they’ll often go dead with like 20-30% shorter carry about 10-20 shots prior to you seeing a crack. 

Do you have a guess for how many 7 iron shots with a clean club face and clean ball it takes to kill balls on a sim? Hitting into a net at 90 mph CHS. I know there could be to0 many variables to guess but seems like you know your simulators! 

[b.mattay]

It's maybe a little low, BUT probably not crazy low. 

 

1.) P790's are strong lofted, so let's set a baseline at 6,000 spin instead of 7,000

2.) You are quite a bit slower than tour averages where these (1000)x spin numbers are based off of.

[GungHoGolf]

1 hour ago, skim4 said:

Do you have a guess for how many 7 iron shots with a clean club face and clean ball it takes to kill balls on a sim? Hitting into a net at 90 mph CHS.

Depends on the ball. I’ve seen more dead and cracked Chrome Softs than I can count, they maybe go 200 on average. ProVs and RCT ProVs seem to be the most durable, guessing 300 at your speed.

 

Wedge play is hardest on the cover of the ball and the net or impact screen (friction burns).

 

1 hour ago, skim4 said:

seems like you know your simulators!

 

It’s my business (google my username).

[iacas]

9 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

Straight up is best, so you randomize the side of the ball you hit while keeping it on the vertical axis.

 

Balls crack frequently in sims; they rarely get hit as many times on the course before you lose them or they get scuffed. And they’ll often go dead with like 20-30% shorter carry about 10-20 shots prior to you seeing a crack. 

 

One of the ways to prolong the life is to hit more than 3 or 4 or 5 balls. They heat up when you hit them, and keeping them at a higher temperature leads to earlier failure. Hit 12-24 golf balls regularly and they'll last longer.

 

This came to light when RCT balls would crack pretty early. They probably are slightly more prone to cracking early, but… people would often use one sleeve repeatedly. Using all 12 at once prolonged their life and increased the # of hits each ball could take.

[DShepley]

3 hours ago, skim4 said:

Do you have a guess for how many 7 iron shots with a clean club face and clean ball it takes to kill balls on a sim? Hitting into a net at 90 mph CHS. I know there could be to0 many variables to guess but seems like you know your simulators! 

My sim screen wears the dimples off of balls very quickly.  As for cracking a ball, I find that the RCT last longer because you aren't hitting them in the same spot every time but there really isn't a consistent amount of time a ball lasts.  Sometimes a ball will last months without splitting and other times it will last a week.  A lot of times you don't know it's cracked unless you actually hit it on the broken side and you can hear the different sound.

 

[DShepley]

1 hour ago, b.mattay said:

It's maybe a little low, BUT probably not crazy low. 

 

1.) P790's are strong lofted, so let's set a baseline at 6,000 spin instead of 7,000

2.) You are quite a bit slower than tour averages where these (1000)x spin numbers are based off of.

It finished 14 yards from where it landed.  A 7 iron should stop much quicker than that.

 

[upanddown]

Here is another 7 from today, using a RCT Pro V1x.   Total distance 169.

 

[MoneyMan300]

25 minutes ago, DShepley said:

It finished 14 yards from where it landed.  A 7 iron should stop much quicker than that.

 

I wouldn't pay much attention to the rollout on a sim, not even sure if he had a green on there.  Descent angle has as much or more to do with landing soft on a green as spin does.  Would like to see what that angle is here, anything 45 degrees or higher is good.   This is also why I really don't like strong lofted clubs like this for anyone that isn't a high HDCP player.

[iacas]

IMO you're likely launching the ball a bit too low for your ball speed/clubhead speed. The spin that was italics before was seemingly at least close, but… PGA Tour players launch their 7I at 16.4° or so, and yours is coming off at 15.1 with about 15 MPH less ball speed. Peak height is only 64 feet, carry is only 155.

 

 

 

 

LPGA: 77 MPH, 107 MPH ball speed, 1.39 smash, 18.9° launch, carry 143.

 

Now, if it's your 6I, basically… 79 MPH (you're a bit slow, but the other numbers should be close): 111 ball speed, 1.41 smash, 17° (still low), 153 carry…

 

So, you're still off, and the landing angle probably suffers if you're hitting a 6I lofted 7I. Not that the LPGA Players aren't playing slightly stronger lofted clubs, too.

[GungHoGolf]

42 minutes ago, upanddown said:

Here is another 7 from today, using a RCT Pro V1x.   Total distance 169.

 

You’re going to want height closer to 80-90 for stopping power with mid and long irons/hybrids. Can try ball position more forward first, releasing earlier with more vertical force and extension through impact if that doesn’t work. The latter should help you gain speed, as I suspect you may be trying to hold off your release and/or handle drag through impact.

 

What’s your age and general level of athleticism?

 

Side note: pay more attention to your averages than picking out your best shot. Delete bad contact shots from TM so the averages aren’t skewed by them, but otherwise leave slower/shorter/lower shots in there. Select your club when changing clubs, optionally adding a tag if trying a different club, to keep your session clean.

Edited March 27, 2024 by GungHoGolf

[GungHoGolf]

1 hour ago, DShepley said:

A lot of times you don't know it's cracked unless you actually hit it on the broken side and you can hear the different sound.

Very true, although usually there will be an unexplained drop in ball speed/smash as well if you’re paying attention to that.

[Pepperturbo]

I don't gauge good or bad iron or spin by LM numbers.  The result of any club down range is how the ball flies and reacts hitting the green.  This 70+ year old's 150+yd 34' 7i may be comparatively short to others, but generally, it's straight. 🙂  That to me is Good.

[upanddown]

54 minutes ago, MoneyMan300 said:

I wouldn't pay much attention to the rollout on a sim, not even sure if he had a green on there.  Descent angle has as much or more to do with landing soft on a green as spin does.  Would like to see what that angle is here, anything 45 degrees or higher is good.   This is also why I really don't like strong lofted clubs like this for anyone that isn't a high HDCP player.

I'll have to set decent next time as the app doesn't show it but I'm inclined to agree on strong lofted clubs.  I liked my old TM CB tour preferred much better.

[GungHoGolf]

1 minute ago, upanddown said:

I'll have to set decent next time as the app doesn't show it but I'm inclined to agree on strong lofted clubs.  I liked my old TM CB tour preferred much better.

I play P790s, but have 87 mph club speed with my 7 iron and plenty of height.

 

I don’t think jacked lofts matter - it’s only a number on the bottom. What matters is trajectory, and not having the the speed or release style to hit longer irons high enough is the main reason to replace them with hybrids or higher-launching shafts.

[upanddown]

9 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

I play P790s, but have 87 mph club speed with my 7 iron and plenty of height.

 

I don’t think jacked lofts matter - it’s only a number on the bottom. What matters is trajectory, and not having the the speed or release style to hit longer irons high enough is the main reason to replace them with hybrids or higher-launching shafts.

Agree Gung Ho.. senior golfer now and would probably benefit from equipment overhaul.  My 3h and 3W are 13y old!

[upanddown]

Hi all.. I thought I would update this after playing a couple of rounds outside.  I'm real happy with the irons trajectory and backspin.  Don't know if its because I'm swinging better or getting more height/back swing from playing off grass.  Maybe a little of both but I'm happy I didn't move off the irons just based on trackman indoors.

[kool-aid]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:23 AM, iacas said:

IMO you're likely launching the ball a bit too low for your ball speed/clubhead speed. The spin that was italics before was seemingly at least close, but… PGA Tour players launch their 7I at 16.4° or so, and yours is coming off at 15.1 with about 15 MPH less ball speed. Peak height is only 64 feet, carry is only 155.

 

 

 

 

LPGA: 77 MPH, 107 MPH ball speed, 1.39 smash, 18.9° launch, carry 143.

 

Now, if it's your 6I, basically… 79 MPH (you're a bit slow, but the other numbers should be close): 111 ball speed, 1.41 smash, 17° (still low), 153 carry…

 

So, you're still off, and the landing angle probably suffers if you're hitting a 6I lofted 7I. Not that the LPGA Players aren't playing slightly stronger lofted clubs, too.

 

I see numbers like this and they always surprise me. My club/ball speed/carry distances are almost spot on the PGA tour numbers, but I launch everything about 3* higher and with a bit less spin. I hit it quite high also, which would make sense... I would think I should actually hit it further due to the higher launch and less spin but for whatever reason I don't