Recent Bandon Dunes Course Conditions - Yikes...

[kiawah]

Couldn't find a thread on this already, but if someone beat me to it, feel free to moderate/move this post however you see fit. I've been seeing a lot of concerning pics out of Bandon Dunes where the course conditions recently have been absolutely atrocious. Apparently they have been swamped by unprecedented rain recently, but still, to see these photos and the amount of advance planning it requires to book a stay and tee times there, this is pretty rough. I'd even go as far as saying unacceptable for Golf Digest Top 100 golf courses. There almost has to be some kind of element of agricultural mismanagement going on here, I've never seen greens look this bad from rain alone. Can any locals/folks who have played recently chime in? I'd really love to play there someday, but I don't know if I can stomach the cost if there's even a tiny chance that the courses are going to look anything like this. Photos from Reddit and Twitter. (Another link to a video of a green on Sheep Ranch)

 

Edited March 28, 2024 by kiawah

[graveydellic]

Greens were fine in December but have probably deteriorated.  The risk you take going in the winter.  They can't control the weather, and in 3 months my guess is no one will be talking about this.  I'm in the minority though, I love the place so much, it could be dirt greens and I'd still happily go.  Conditioning on rugged links courses isn't top of mind for me.   Americans as a whole seem to be obsessed with the idea that only green, manicured courses can be "good".  If the greens roll reasonably true, I don't care what they look like.   

 

If you want to guarantee excellent conditions, go in the summer and pay peak rates.  If you're a golf junkie who isn't bothered by aesthetics and bad weather, go in the winter.   

[kiawah]

3 minutes ago, graveydellic said:

Greens were fine in December but have probably deteriorated.  The risk you take going in the winter.  They can't control the weather, and in 3 months my guess is no one will be talking about this.  I'm in the minority though, I love the place so much, it could be dirt greens and I'd still happily go.  Conditioning on rugged links courses isn't top of mind for me.   Americans as a whole seem to be obsessed with the idea that only green, manicured courses can be "good".  If the greens roll reasonably true, I don't care what they look like.   

 

If you want to guarantee excellent conditions, go in the summer and pay peak rates.  If you're a golf junkie who isn't bothered by aesthetics and bad weather, go in the winter.   

I think that's an entirely fair point. I don't expect them to control the weather or anything. I could care less about green and manicured, too. I'm not expecting it to look like Augusta during Masters week. It's a links course on the ocean; you simply cannot have greens stamping over a 9 or a 10 at most. A little bit of brown never hurt anybody. Still, these conditions are not passable and there is no chance these are rolling reasonably true. Judging by their appearance, the greens look virtually unplayable. This isn't a looks problem, it's a playability problem, and I just can't see myself paying top dollar for a golf course with playability problems. I'm with you, if the course is good enough, I can live with the greens being mediocre. But unlike you, I've never had the chance to play/see Bandon at its best. If I paid thousands of dollars to stay there expecting a good experience and got this as my first impression, I would be royally P.O.'d. I hope they aren't charging people full price for this.

[Rory4Pres]

Yes, Americans are obsessed with good green conditions.  I'm fine with accepting that.  To be fair, if they were charging $89 green fees, this wouldn't be a problem but when you are charging $250+ plus hotel costs to play a course where you are hoping your 5 footers don't hit bumps is unacceptable.  

 

Personally, I don't mind if the tee boxes, fairways and rough are subpar, those don't really impact my play but if the greens are bumpy, then after the 3rd missed short putt, you ask yourself why are you even bothering.

[kiawah]

1 minute ago, Rory4Pres said:

Yes, Americans are obsessed with good green conditions.  I'm fine with accepting that.  To be fair, if they were charging $89 green fees, this wouldn't be a problem but when you are charging $250+ plus hotel costs to play a course where you are hoping your 5 footers don't hit bumps is unacceptable.  

 

Personally, I don't mind if the tee boxes, fairways and rough are subpar, those don't really impact my play but if the greens are bumpy, then after the 3rd missed short putt, you ask yourself why are you even bothering.

This is my point. People probably booked these tee times months/years in advance and spent a lot of time and money getting to Bandon. Yes, I know the scenery is beautiful and from what I've heard the vibes are world-class, but conditions like these do not seem enjoyable. I've played on plenty of bad greens and still enjoyed my day, and I know better than to expect greens to be in peak shape before April, but this just looks like a soupy mess. 

[jkody]

1. It's only a couple of greens at Bandon Dunes.

 

2. Half of those pictures are literally underwater. 

[Seamus_MacDuff]

I was just there earlier this month.  The greens are putting just fine.  A few of them don't look great due to the winter damage they've taken from the rains, especially #2 at BD, but it's really not affecting how they play.  Relax people, they'll be back to looking normal by late April.

[knock it close]

1 hour ago, Rory4Pres said:

but when you are charging $250+ plus hotel costs to play a course

Well that's why they aren't charging that in march

[jrg75]

@kiawah, greens are terrible, they always have standing water like your pictures, it probably is

3 hours ago, kiawah said:

agricultural mismanagement

🙄🙄🙄

 

My best advice. stay away, tell your friends, spread the word.

 

(P.S. if you have lodging or tee times booked, let me know when you cancel so I can snag them).

 

[jlevitt9]

Reminder it costs 50%+ less to stay/play at Bandon in the winter than in the Summer. I've been 7 times, can't wait to go back. I'm sure it will be perfect again in 1-3 months. No one who has been to Bandon, and got to enjoy the property, would complain about a few greens which are temporarily in bad shape as putting a damper on the overall experience. 

 

Edited March 28, 2024 by jlevitt9

[sheppick.dan]

If the greens aren't under water (which with the rain we've been getting everything is under water!) I bet they put better than most greens!

[MattM97]

A few things I've read from this being posted a ton:

 

* The warmer winter and traffic has put the greens like this but should be fine.

* They dumped sand on certain greens due to heavy rains.

* The poa is dying and they're letting it die off to have majority bentgrass grow back.

 

Could be 1, could be none, could be them all.

[knock it close]

3 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

The poa is dying and they're letting it die off to have majority bentgrass grow back.

 

How would bent grow back when they were never were bent, they were fescue to begin with. Poa is always going to dominate the PNW and west coast, especially at a high traffic place like Bandon, and any attempt to keep it out is going to be futile. Unless you're at a high budget, limited play private like Cal Club. 

[MattM97]

2 minutes ago, knock it close said:

How would bent grow back when they were never were bent, they were fescue to begin with. Poa is always going to dominate the PNW and west coast, especially at a high traffic place like Bandon, and any attempt to keep it out is going to be futile. Unless you're at a high budget, limited play private like Cal Club. 

 

Just stuff I read never said any or all were true. I assume the others are more truthful.

[Seamus_MacDuff]

36 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

A few things I've read from this being posted a ton:

 

* The warmer winter and traffic has put the greens like this but should be fine.

* They dumped sand on certain greens due to heavy rains.

* The poa is dying and they're letting it die off to have majority bentgrass grow back.

 

Could be 1, could be none, could be them all.

 

None of this is true (with the exception that the greens will be fine).

 

Edited March 28, 2024 by Seamus_MacDuff

[MattM97]

20 minutes ago, Seamus_MacDuff said:

 

None of this is true (with the exception that the greens will be fine).

 

 

Well my journalism is more accurate than most these days still. 

[Avidswampthing66]

5 hours ago, graveydellic said:

Greens were fine in December but have probably deteriorated.  The risk you take going in the winter.  They can't control the weather, and in 3 months my guess is no one will be talking about this.  I'm in the minority though, I love the place so much, it could be dirt greens and I'd still happily go.  Conditioning on rugged links courses isn't top of mind for me.   Americans as a whole seem to be obsessed with the idea that only green, manicured courses can be "good".  If the greens roll reasonably true, I don't care what they look like.   

 

If you want to guarantee excellent conditions, go in the summer and pay peak rates.  If you're a golf junkie who isn't bothered by aesthetics and bad weather, go in the winter.   

Well said.  Bandon is a wild wind bashed coastal links course.   * See Scotland links conditions.  They had the atmospheric river dump obscene amounts of rain the last few months.  Truly unprecedented.   With that being said, I played Bandon Trails a few years ago and they were transitioning the green grass from poa to fescue and they were a little whacky looking but rolled great.  This was during winter so, rates were a little lower and it was something they were working on.  NBD because it was a work in progress.   Still, it's such an incredible track, that it could have been sand and I would have been happy.  Bandon will not let you down.  Even if the greens look funny.

[ND2005]

There has been a “insider” secret of going in Feb/March and benefiting from off-season rates while also having the chance to luck into better than average conditions. 
 
 Well guess what? Averages are averages for a reason, and March is going to suck some years. 
 
It was a terrible winter. Let’s see how the courses look in the peak season. 

[sheppick.dan]

3 hours ago, ND2005 said:

There has been a “insider” secret of going in Feb/March and benefiting from off-season rates while also having the chance to luck into better than average conditions. 
 
 Well guess what? Averages are averages for a reason, and March is going to suck some years. 
 
It was a terrible winter. Let’s see how the courses look in the peak season. 

We got lucky one year in November living 5 hours away. Beautiful weather, was like summer other than the wind going in a different direction. Same time the next year we were the only golfers on pacific dunes it was so bad. The Marshalls couldn’t believe it. Walked the course with us they were so bored!

 

 

[kiawah]

16 hours ago, jrg75 said:

@kiawah, greens are terrible, they always have standing water like your pictures, it probably is

🙄🙄🙄

 

My best advice. stay away, tell your friends, spread the word.

 

(P.S. if you have lodging or tee times booked, let me know when you cancel so I can snag them).

 

The only reason I say this is because apparently, Old Mac is in really good shape (see below for a photo from yesterday), while the others look pretty bad. It's not like the rain has selectively drenched some of the courses on the property and not others, and if the weather is to blame for the conditions, then Old Mac wouldn't look this great. I also saw a couple of tweets/posts saying they let go of/replaced their superintendent recently, and if that's true, it could just be a trifecta of bad luck with the weather, significant change to greenskeeping staff, and heavy traffic from constant play. I'm not trying to hate on Bandon! It seems like an awesome spot 99% of the time! But as someone who would have to save up for a while to get out there, it just makes me nervous. 

[jrg75]

3 hours ago, kiawah said:

The only reason I say this is because apparently, Old Mac is in really good shape (see below for a photo from yesterday), while the others look pretty bad. It's not like the rain has selectively drenched some of the courses on the property and not others, and if the weather is to blame for the conditions, then Old Mac wouldn't look this great. I also saw a couple of tweets/posts saying they let go of/replaced their superintendent recently, and if that's true, it could just be a trifecta of bad luck with the weather, significant change to greenskeeping staff, and heavy traffic from constant play. I'm not trying to hate on Bandon! It seems like an awesome spot 99% of the time! But as someone who would have to save up for a while to get out there, it just makes me nervous. 

I think relying on tweets/posts with selectively dramatic pictures is probably making this seem worse than it actually is.  A few thoughts:

 

1) the pictures you originally posted of Bandon is a photo with standing water of a few of the most prone greens to that problem, not a fair representation in my view.

 

2) Old Mac is currently a different type of turf than Bandon, Pac and Trails and the green complexes at Old Mac have more severe slopes which helps with standing water and probably have minimized some of the wet winter damage. I feel like Bandon in particular seems to have a few greens with bowls that make it more prone to standing water.

 

3) I think you should look at course cameras for a realistic representation of what the greens are like.  Today seems like a nice dry day and the greens at Bandon 8 and 9, Pacific 18, Trails 1 seems decent and consistent with what I've seen during a late winter trip.

 

4) Bandon is awesome 100% of the time.

Edited March 29, 2024 by jrg75

[dfwgolfer92]

Will be up there in ~10 days and just received an email from GM proactively reducing Bandon Dunes-only rates 25%.

 

They are acknowledging issues and are proactively offering the discount, again for BD only.

[dfwgolfer92]

1 minute ago, dfwgolfer92 said:

Will be up there in ~10 days and just received an email from GM proactively reducing Bandon Dunes-only rates 25%.

 

They are acknowledging issues and are proactively offering the discount, again for BD only.

[kiawah]

2 hours ago, jrg75 said:

I think relying on tweets/posts with selectively dramatic pictures is probably making this seem worse than it actually is.  A few thoughts:

 

1) the pictures you originally posted of Bandon is a photo with standing water of a few of the most prone greens to that problem, not a fair representation in my view.

 

2) Old Mac is currently a different type of turf than Bandon, Pac and Trails and the green complexes at Old Mac have more severe slopes which helps with standing water and probably have minimized some of the wet winter damage. I feel like Bandon in particular seems to have a few greens with bowls that make it more prone to standing water.

 

3) I think you should look at course cameras for a realistic representation of what the greens are like.  Today seems like a nice dry day and the greens at Bandon 8 and 9, Pacific 18, Trails 1 seems decent and consistent with what I've seen during a late winter trip.

 

4) Bandon is awesome 100% of the time.

You could be right. Good insight.

[grm24]

Article on SI.com on Bandon's current conditions. Worth a read.

[klebs01]

12 hours ago, grm24 said:

Article on SI.com on Bandon's current conditions. Worth a read.

Which AI bot wrote the article?

[ND2005]

2 hours ago, klebs01 said:

Which AI bot wrote the article?

 

As I've come to expect of most modern media, that article contained nothing of substance or interest. I gleaned less information from that article than from the pictures on social media or from the discussions here. 

[TexasTurf]

That's just bad construction / drainage. Easy fix. Definitely not just a bad weather issue.

[me05501]

When you have a popular destination like BD there is going to be wear and tear from the constant traffic. This is true of the courses as well as the rooms, restaurants, vehicles, staff, etc.

 

It's good that they're adjusting rates without being asked. Not many places with similar demand will do that. 

 

I'm still waiting for any of these places to focus less on maximizing volume without sending rates to an unobtainable level, but I'm not holding my breath. If Pebble Beach suddenly decided to cap greens fees at some arbitrary and reasonably affordable level they'd be booked out 4-5 years before the end of the week. 

[mikedejong33]

We did a Bandon trip last October with a large group from our club. When we got there two of the courses had recently punched the greens (Trails and Sheep). It was a bit of a bummer, but it didn't ruin the experience or anything. When it came time to reconcile our total invoice, they had applied a 25% discount to our rounds on those courses without us even asking. I thought that was pretty fair of them. We had a private meal booked for all of us, and some guys didn't show up as they were too tired (or drunk, whatever the case may be). They didn't charge us for those that missed. We had a few guys that didn't want to play the morning we flew out, even though rounds were pre-booked, they didn't charge them for that. So I think Bandon has been more than fair to our group in the past.

 

I am sort of on the fence when it comes to the greens... I would be very disappointed to plan, pay, travel all the way there and have all the courses in terrible shape. But I have worked on golf course maintenance crews before, and I know that sometimes it can't be helped. All you can ask is for them to communicate what is happening, and perhaps try to help you out with the fees, etc. Or give a voucher for next time. Just something as an acknowledgement.