Any simple "in round" thoughts to get Driver Path from -8 to -2 and below?

[jibbs1082]

Hey guys, mid/low cap that can get around a course fairly well, consistently live in (-5) to neutral iron path but find myself getting loose and lazy with driver that results in spinny cuts that, while still in play, hemorrhage distance. Any time I hit trackman I start creeping with the driver to (-8) range.

 

For whatever reason, I just cant seem to slot driver (know that its longer, heavier, takes more time etc). What are your swing thoughts changing from irons to driver during a round? Pull the chain obviously can get you "stuck".... I find starting the downswing with opening the hips can help shallow a bit, but that also loses a some speed and can get you stuck. I realize wrist flexion is important, and I typically am a flexed (moreso with driver than irons). Sometimes keeping your back to the target longer at transition helps I find. Somtimes tucking the trail elbow tight to your ribcage helps but find I sometimes still spin out with my shoulders and it messed up my sequence.

 

For those non natural positive path folks, what has been your go to thought with driver to get that path correct when its starts to get sloppy?

 

Funny thing is I can identify the problem mid round, I just cant seem to have a consistent fix and defer to setting up start line down left fairway.

 

Really only a driver problem, as with Mid to short irons I can find my way to be pretty neutral.

 

Thanks!

Edited April 24, 2024 by jibbs1082

[skim4]

Tee it up on the left side of the Tee Box and aim middle of fairway. If you're right handed. Im not sure why this seems to work for me as the Tee Box Orientation  is arbitrary but seems to help. Gets me more in the draw mindset I guess. 

[Nickb333]

For me it’s just swing easy. Fixes a lot of stuff. 

[MonteScheinblum]

First off, opening the hips moves the path left and doesn’t shallow.

 

On course swing adjustments are ill advised. 

 

You have an issue in your swing that gets exacerbated when you’re on the course.  You’d be better off addressing that.

 

However, the best on course bandaid for this is one or more of the following:

 

1.  Ball farther back

2.  Ball farther away from you

3.  More shoulder tilt at address

 

Those setup changes all will shift the path more right.

[jibbs1082]

26 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Tee it up on the left side of the Tee Box and aim middle of fairway. If you're right handed. Im not sure why this seems to work for me as the Tee Box Orientation  is arbitrary but seems to help. Gets me more in the draw mindset I guess. 

 

Interesting, I have been going right side, aiming down the left will try this, seems simple and makes sense

[jibbs1082]

24 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

For me it’s just swing easy. Fixes a lot of stuff. 

 

I actually find when I swing easy, I get more over the top and keep the face open. Not that what you're saying isn't correct, just personally when I bear down and "send it" I seem to have better results vs slowing it down.

[jibbs1082]

20 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

First off, opening the hips moves the path left and doesn’t shallow.

 

On course swing adjustments are ill advised. 

 

You have an issue in your swing that gets exacerbated when you’re on the course.  You’d be better off addressing that.

 

However, the best on course bandaid for this is one or more of the following:

 

1.  Ball farther back

2.  Ball farther away from you

3.  More shoulder tilt at address

 

Those setup changes all will shift the path more right.

 

1... I might be inching the ball up too far off the front foot, will try that

2... tried this the other night and cold topped it haha.... but yes, I think if I get steep I am maybe crowding it a hair

3... will try as well

 

No major swing changes, just minor adjustments or one to two "thoughts". Changes are for the lab : )

 

Thanks!

 

[skim4]

@MonteScheinblum  

 

What about teeing it higher? 

[jibbs1082]

2 minutes ago, skim4 said:

@MonteScheinblum  

 

What about teeing it higher? 

 

Higher, I find I get more spin, lower I top it.... really only comfortable teeing at my average depth which is about the standard position with a normal plastic tee.

[MonteScheinblum]

6 minutes ago, skim4 said:

@MonteScheinblum  

 

What about teeing it higher? 

Usually just results in an idiot mark.

[CSagan]

Drop right foot back maybe along with all the other stuff posted. 

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, jibbs1082 said:

Hey guys, mid/low cap that can get around a course fairly well, consistently live in (-5) to neutral iron path but find myself getting loose and lazy with driver that results in spinny cuts that, while still in play, hemorrhage distance. Any time I hit trackman I start creeping with the driver to (-8) range.

 

For whatever reason, I just cant seem to slot driver (know that its longer, heavier, takes more time etc). What are your swing thoughts changing from irons to driver during a round? Pull the chain obviously can get you "stuck".... I find starting the downswing with opening the hips can help shallow a bit, but that also loses a some speed and can get you stuck. I realize wrist flexion is important, and I typically am a flexed (moreso with driver than irons). Sometimes keeping your back to the target longer at transition helps I find. Somtimes tucking the trail elbow tight to your ribcage helps but find I sometimes still spin out with my shoulders and it messed up my sequence.

 

For those non natural positive path folks, what has been your go to thought with driver to get that path correct when its starts to get sloppy?

 

Funny thing is I can identify the problem mid round, I just cant seem to have a consistent fix and defer to setting up start line down left fairway.

 

Really only a driver problem, as with Mid to short irons I can find my way to be pretty neutral.

 

Thanks!

 

If I'm reading this correctly, you don't seem to be too concerned with a -8 AoA on your driver.

 

While I don't frequent this section too often I do seem to recall Monte(?) suggesting that one needn't have an positive angle of attack to be long and in control. I believe his suggestion was to look at Dustin Johnson, among others.

 

But -8 seems to be an awful lot of neg AoA.

 

Fwiw I used to be an upper-body mover towards the target, which had my driver trailing badly and hitting downward, causing me way too much spin (almost 4K), distance loss & lack of consistency.

 

While demo'ing a driver 9 or so years ago, the shop pro turned on the camera and upon reviewing the pics discovered my terrible upper body movement. Ouch. Who knew ?

 

Anyway, once he got me to keep my head back behind the ball, as every pro golfer does, while still rotating through with my lower body/hips, spin dropped to a little over 2K, and strikes became more centered far more often. And distance, direction, and consistency improved dramatically.

 

My thoughts for the driver ? "Head back, "weight" forward.

 

Good luck ! 👍

 

 

[jibbs1082]

1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

If I'm reading this correctly, you don't seem to be too concerned with a -8 AoA on your driver.

 

While I don't frequent this section too often I do seem to recall Monte(?) suggesting that one needn't have an positive angle of attack to be long and in control. I believe his suggestion was to look at Dustin Johnson, among others.

 

But -8 seems to be an awful lot of neg AoA.

 

Fwiw I used to be an upper-body mover towards the target, which had my driver trailing badly and hitting downward, causing me way too much spin (almost 4K), distance loss & lack of consistency.

 

While demo'ing a driver 9 or so years ago, the shop pro turned on the camera and upon reviewing the pics discovered my terrible upper body movement. Ouch. Who knew ?

 

Anyway, once he got me to keep my head back behind the ball, as every pro golfer does, while still rotating through with my lower body/hips, spin dropped to a little over 2K, and strikes became more centered far more often. And distance, direction, and consistency improved dramatically.

 

My thoughts for the driver ? "Head back, "weight" forward.

 

Good luck ! 👍

 

 

 

I am definitely concerned with the -8... but only when I am practicing. It definitely creeps back in as you get tired and later in rounds or if my body just doesn't feel "good" that day. I think when I am swinging well, I am probably living around -6 to -5 and its a serviceable baby cut that still gets distance. -8 to even -10 means fairway missed and hemorrhaging distance.

 

Love head back weight forward... going to give this a go. Basically what you said above is very relatable.

 

 

[aramirez24]

12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

If I'm reading this correctly, you don't seem to be too concerned with a -8 AoA on your driver.

 

While I don't frequent this section too often I do seem to recall Monte(?) suggesting that one needn't have an positive angle of attack to be long and in control. I believe his suggestion was to look at Dustin Johnson, among others.

 

But -8 seems to be an awful lot of neg AoA.

 

Fwiw I used to be an upper-body mover towards the target, which had my driver trailing badly and hitting downward, causing me way too much spin (almost 4K), distance loss & lack of consistency.

 

While demo'ing a driver 9 or so years ago, the shop pro turned on the camera and upon reviewing the pics discovered my terrible upper body movement. Ouch. Who knew ?

 

Anyway, once he got me to keep my head back behind the ball, as every pro golfer does, while still rotating through with my lower body/hips, spin dropped to a little over 2K, and strikes became more centered far more often. And distance, direction, and consistency improved dramatically.

 

My thoughts for the driver ? "Head back, "weight" forward.

 

Good luck ! 👍

 

 

This is about path not AOA. 

[gvogel]

1 hour ago, jibbs1082 said:

Hey guys, mid/low cap that can get around a course fairly well, consistently live in (-5) to neutral iron path but find myself getting loose and lazy with driver that results in spinny cuts that, while still in play, hemorrhage distance. Any time I hit trackman I start creeping with the driver to (-8) range.

 

For whatever reason, I just cant seem to slot driver (know that its longer, heavier, takes more time etc). What are your swing thoughts changing from irons to driver during a round? Pull the chain obviously can get you "stuck".... I find starting the downswing with opening the hips can help shallow a bit, but that also loses a some speed and can get you stuck. I realize wrist flexion is important, and I typically am a flexed (moreso with driver than irons). Sometimes keeping your back to the target longer at transition helps I find. Somtimes tucking the trail elbow tight to your ribcage helps but find I sometimes still spin out with my shoulders and it messed up my sequence.

 

For those non natural positive path folks, what has been your go to thought with driver to get that path correct when its starts to get sloppy?

 

Funny thing is I can identify the problem mid round, I just cant seem to have a consistent fix and defer to setting up start line down left fairway.

 

Really only a driver problem, as with Mid to short irons I can find my way to be pretty neutral.

 

Thanks!

You should use the same swing for every shot; some may be full swings, and some may be part swings, and some may be putts, but it is the same swing.  There should be no thought of changing swing from irons to woods.  You just change your set up; not the swing.  (Percy Boomer)

 

If you want to cure the wipey fade, you need to learn to draw the ball.  When you can draw the ball, you will also be able to play with soft fades.

[nsxguy]

30 minutes ago, jibbs1082 said:

 

I am definitely concerned with the -8... but only when I am practicing. It definitely creeps back in as you get tired and later in rounds or if my body just doesn't feel "good" that day. I think when I am swinging well, I am probably living around -6 to -5 and its a serviceable baby cut that still gets distance. -8 to even -10 means fairway missed and hemorrhaging distance.

 

Love head back weight forward... going to give this a go. Basically what you said above is very relatable.

 

 

 

Your initial post was very relatable to ME !!!

 

Only wished I'd been in that store 30 years earlier. Somehow I managed to get down to a 2 the way I was.

 

Sure wish I'd learned how to drive the ball as well earlier in my golfing life,,,,,,,,, rather than so late though.

 

Again, good luck !

 

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, jibbs1082 said:

Hey guys, mid/low cap that can get around a course fairly well, consistently live in (-5) to neutral iron path but find myself getting loose and lazy with driver that results in spinny cuts that, while still in play, hemorrhage distance. Any time I hit trackman I start creeping with the driver to (-8) range.

 

For whatever reason, I just cant seem to slot driver (know that its longer, heavier, takes more time etc). What are your swing thoughts changing from irons to driver during a round? Pull the chain obviously can get you "stuck".... I find starting the downswing with opening the hips can help shallow a bit, but that also loses a some speed and can get you stuck. I realize wrist flexion is important, and I typically am a flexed (moreso with driver than irons). Sometimes keeping your back to the target longer at transition helps I find. Somtimes tucking the trail elbow tight to your ribcage helps but find I sometimes still spin out with my shoulders and it messed up my sequence.

 

For those non natural positive path folks, what has been your go to thought with driver to get that path correct when its starts to get sloppy?

 

Funny thing is I can identify the problem mid round, I just cant seem to have a consistent fix and defer to setting up start line down left fairway.

 

Really only a driver problem, as with Mid to short irons I can find my way to be pretty neutral.

 

Thanks!

 

29 minutes ago, aramirez24 said:

This is about path not AOA. 

 

Thanks for that but while the OP said "path" he seems to be mostly referring to AoA; which btw is part of the path.

 

Admittedly, in the golf swing "path" is far more often used to refer to the rotating movement around the body rather than the vertical movement, one can certainly see AoA being part of the path.

 

Not so ?

[LBB]

1 hour ago, jibbs1082 said:

 

Interesting, I have been going right side, aiming down the left will try this, seems simple and makes sense

My natural shot is a draw, and I'm trying to play more of a fade with my driver to increase my control as my worst misses with my driver are the huge block right or the pull hook left.  The way I force myself mentally to commit to a fade type shot is to do exactly what you're currently doing...to tee it up on the right side of the box and aim down the left side of the fairway. 

 

While teeing it up on the right and aiming left may give your current swing the most margin for error, it will not illicit a mental/subconscious commitment to swing more neutral than you normally would.

[jibbs1082]

27 minutes ago, gvogel said:

You should use the same swing for every shot; some may be full swings, and some may be part swings, and some may be putts, but it is the same swing.  There should be no thought of changing swing from irons to woods.  You just change your set up; not the swing.  (Percy Boomer)

 

If you want to cure the wipey fade, you need to learn to draw the ball.  When you can draw the ball, you will also be able to play with soft fades.

 

True, but also very un-true. Your set up, and impact positions with Driver vs. Irons are significantly different

 

 

[jibbs1082]

11 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Thanks for that but while the OP said "path" he seems to be mostly referring to AoA; which btw is part of the path.

 

Admittedly, in the golf swing "path" is far more often used to refer to the rotating movement around the body rather than the vertical movement, one can certainly see AoA being part of the path.

 

Not so ?

 

My AOA basically lives around 0.5 to -1.5 so we are OK there... Tour avg is -1, who knew?

 

Edited April 24, 2024 by jibbs1082

[aramirez24]

9 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Thanks for that but while the OP said "path" he seems to be mostly referring to AoA; which btw is part of the path.

 

Admittedly, in the golf swing "path" is far more often used to refer to the rotating movement around the body rather than the vertical movement, one can certainly see AoA being part of the path.

 

Not so ?

I don't think he's talking AOA. As far as I understand it (which is very surface level), they are two separate variables that dictate the ball flight. Your path to club face relationship is what OP is trying to manage. If his AOA it 0-2 up in theory he's on the right track attacking path/face relationships. I struggle with path coming across with driver as well so I relate alot with this topic. 

 

[jibbs1082]

In all honesty my face to path isn't totally perfect with driver either, trends open.... just specifically related to this post, I can FEEL myself get over the top and my path is clearly NEGATIVE, specifically if I am having a bad day, feel tired, wear down, etc.

 

Just kind of looking for those small swing thoughts to "bear down" and power through a round, vs practice and correction which is a whole different topic IMO.

 

 

[aramirez24]

@nsxguy here is what I think we're talking about here. I'm someone who lives on the bottom row of this graphic. 

 

 

[aramirez24]

1 minute ago, jibbs1082 said:

In all honesty my face to path isn't totally perfect with driver either, trends open.... just specifically related to this post, I can FEEL myself get over the top and my path is clearly NEGATIVE, specifically if I am having a bad day, feel tired, wear down, etc.

 

Just kind of looking for those small swing thoughts to "bear down" and power through a round, vs practice and correction which is a whole different topic IMO.

 

 

sorry to derail this conversation here.. Back to the original topic at hand, my tendency with every club basically longer than 7 irons is to get aggressive from the top opening the shoulders early and sending that path left. Anytime I'm on the course I'll do some step drills pre shot to feel the tempo I'm looking for. Need some patience with that 45" club when you have an aggressive transition tendency. 

[jibbs1082]

7 minutes ago, aramirez24 said:

sorry to derail this conversation here.. Back to the original topic at hand, my tendency with every club basically longer than 7 irons is to get aggressive from the top opening the shoulders early and sending that path left. Anytime I'm on the course I'll do some step drills pre shot to feel the tempo I'm looking for. Need some patience with that 45" club when you have an aggressive transition tendency. 

 

This is bang on.....

 

step drill with driver - is that even possible? 😁

 

Edited April 24, 2024 by jibbs1082

[Nickb333]

2 hours ago, jibbs1082 said:

 

I actually find when I swing easy, I get more over the top and keep the face open. Not that what you're saying isn't correct, just personally when I bear down and "send it" I seem to have better results vs slowing it down.

Everyone is different and has different feels. For clarity, when I wrote easy I meant without any tension, not slower.  
 

Anyway, best of luck. 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Thanks for that but while the OP said "path" he seems to be mostly referring to AoA; which btw is part of the path.

 

Admittedly, in the golf swing "path" is far more often used to refer to the rotating movement around the body rather than the vertical movement, one can certainly see AoA being part of the path.

 

Not so ?

Usually, I've seen "path" used to describe Out-to-in or In-to-out tendencies relative to the target line.  AoA is where the clubhead's moving down or up comes in.  -8 Path is a big Out-to-in path.  -8 Down is wedge-like AoA, not driver.

 

While you're right that "club path" consists of these movements summed together, mentioning "Path" in this manner is usually a reference to how a launch monitor is reporting these measurements.

[KD1]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

3.  More shoulder tilt at address

Can you clarify this?

Lead shoulder above trail?

Just rotate shoulders closed?

Both?

[MonteScheinblum]

35 minutes ago, KD1 said:

Can you clarify this?

Lead shoulder above trail?

Just rotate shoulders closed?

Both?

Generally you get one with the other.