Topping, thin, poor contact, closed face at impact. Can anything be done without a video?

[loki993]

Sorry I don't have a current video and its night and I cant go film one right now. Maybe in the next few days I can get to the range and shoot a few. I will try to detail as much as I can and then upload a new video when I can. 

 

I played a round yesterday and I was absolutely terrible. Now I'm not great, probably a 20 HDC, but last season I did take a few lessons and felt some improvement. Yesterday it all felt like that was gone and the old issues with my swing were back. 

 

For quite some time now, 10 years at least, I've struggled with topping and thin contact. All clubs except my wedges which are decent, probably the better part of my game. 

 

so lots of time I hit the ball thin, others I straight up top it, especially as the clubs get longer. 

 

I've take videos before, I don't appear to be early extending. I am not coming over the top, I am mostly on plane for the most part. I did a golf clinic and 3 lessons at a different place and no one immediately identified some major thing I was doing. I always thought there must have been some fundamental thing that I doing that caused it, I wasn't.

 

What it feels like is somehow, somewhere in my swing I pull the club closer to my body and I cant get the head back down to where it started, or to where it needs to be to get a solid hit. I've tried many things and I can resolve it for a little bit but it always comes back. 

 

One thing I do notice when I take practice swings is that on my downswing the club does not travel over the same spot as where it started in my upswing. Its almost always closer. This doesn't seem to be an issue when I actually hit though, I do hit toe shots on occasion but if I miss on the face bad its towards the hozel usually. 

 

Stand closer to the ball you say, doesn't help. Actually standing farther away helps some because I actively have to almost reach out at the ball to hit it but at that point It feel like Im standing really far from it. Also I even tried that yesterday and that wasn't helping even. 

 

Here is a new thing that has popped up recently and the reason I cant post one of my older videos, because there must be something else I'm doing now. 

 

I am closing the clubface almost to an extreme angle at impact. I would say probably 7 to 8 degrees to path. This is obviously causing snap hooks or more often than not a thin, spinny, low darts off the the left. 

 

I know there can only be so much done without a video and Ill try to get one but until then any ideas on what I could be doing? I've tried all the "usual" or "normal" causes. What else?

 

Thanks

[GungHoGolf]

Without video, I would guess your low point is at or behind the ball with around 0° angle of attack, and you rarely take divots. But wedges work better for you because you play the ball further back in your stance.

 

If true, you gotta get your low point (center of your divot) in front of the ball with every club but driver and maybe a sweepy 3-wood. Which means no swaying away from the target on your backswing, an earlier and more pronounced weight shift to your lead leg before the top of your backswing, sync’d up arms, good rotation through impact, and no “hanging back.”

 

But yes, we do need video.

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, loki993 said:

I've tried all the "usual" or "normal" causes. What else?

One of the first big things to get your head around if you actually want to dedicate any meaningful time to improvement is recognizing the error likely in this statement. I mean this completely neutrally and without disrespect, but a 20hdc is virtually never a reliable narrator of their swing and what they have and haven't really done. And I don't mean that in a snarky/pedantic "well obviously you haven't looked everywhere for your keys because if you did, you'd have your keys" kind of way, I mean that in a "feel vs. real" way knowing that people's inability to actually move differently due to how difficult it is to create new movement patterns in something as difficult as the golf swing is exactly *why* they get stuck at a 20hdcp. So when someone says "i've tried everything", that actually translates to "I think i've tried everything, but I don't yet know enough to know whether that's actually true".

Getting over that first hurdle is important if you want to take a meaningful step forward, because the reality that you've actually made very little change when you thought you made lots is both sobering, but hopeful because it means the answers are still out there. With that knowledge you would also understand that no one can meaningfully help you without pretty thorough visuals. It's very analogous to expecting a decent diagnosis from a Doctor after only relaying your symptoms via email. Like the golf swing, the competent professional on the other end should say "well it could be one of 9 different things so you'll have to come in for anything further" and prescribing any medication, like swing advice, would be as risky as is implied by that comparison. Your low point issues (thins/tops) could be caused by several different categories of problem each with subcategories that are often opposites of each other, and in any combination. 

@GungHoGolf Touched on some likely culprits, but without video it's still roulette. 

 

[Valtiel]

Also if your swing is materially different from what it was in this thread then i'd be curious, otherwise @slytown's advice is still relevant.

[loki993]

Ahh, you found my videos from last year. I sort of forgot those were here. Materially different? probably not. Definitely lengthened my backswing, I have more forward shaft lean at address now and I try to get more shoulder and hip turn. I'm trying to cut down the swaying but its something I've always done and it difficult to remove completely. I am probably mostly still doing it. 

 

Ill try to get some more videos here soon, at the range, the backyard videos aren't the same as actually hitting a ball. 

[GungHoGolf]

Nice find on the video, @Valtiel.

 

Here’s a gif of it:

 

OP, you’re turning your shoulders flat, staying in forward flexion as you do it so your head and upper body sway dramatically behind the ball, moving your hips backwards instead of forwards, and recentering way way too late on the downswing, so you have no chance to get your low point forward of the ball.

 

You have to fix your backswing pivot so your head and hips don’t go backwards, then “fall” into your lead leg at the top of your swing, before starting the downswing. It will probably feel like a reverse pivot to you. Try feeling like your right shoulder is over your left foot at the top (an exaggeration that may be necessary).

 

You would be a good candidate for the “Stack and Tilt” swing methodology, at least until you learn how to hit the ball with your weight forward instead of back. Plenty of S&T videos on YouTube.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by GungHoGolf