Moving an OB stake.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

Btw, those poles are not on the fairway but in the rough.

 

Do you realize how much cyber-ink you could've saved everybody by posting this in the 1st place ?  

[Mr. Bean]

6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Do you realize how much cyber-ink you could've saved everybody by posting this in the 1st place ?  

 

Did someone actually THINK they are in the middle of the fairway?!?!??! Geeezzzzzz.....

[nsxguy]

On 6/7/2024 at 6:50 AM, Imp said:

So you pipe a shot down dead center of the fairway, on a rope, and you're behind a 150 marker which interferes with the flight of the next shot, and your course is saying 'Tough luck'? Yikes.

 

Around here, they are in easy to remove tubes/inserts in the ground... for 2 very good reasons, so you can pull them out to play, and you can pull them out to mow... they are not pounded into the ground like a penalty area/OB stake. I would certainly hope that LR gets fixed there.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 10:39 AM, bcjim said:

Growing up, my course had 2 bushes on the fairway edges at 150 and scorecard said free drop.  Not so many places have even the poles anymore but those that do, are as you describe, in a sleeve and everyone lays it aside as needed when it interferes.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 8:22 AM, golfortennis said:

 

Forgive my ignorance, but didn't the old rule only apply to OB stakes, but not yardage stakes and the likes?  You always could move a yardage stake I thought, just not OB.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 12:29 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

Did someone actually THINK they are in the middle of the fairway?!?!??! Geeezzzzzz.....

 

Myself and at least 1 other. 

 

The other 2 posters I can't be sure of but I suspect they may have been thinking pole in the middle of the fairway as well.

 

g.o.t. was responding to a post about the OB stake, but brought up movable markers as well,,,,,,,,

 

Here's a video of the back 9 at a course I used to play fairly regularly. At 1:38 and 1:46 you can see 2 of them. At 3:25 and again at 3:32 you can see 2 more.

 

It's a flyover and the poles aren't that obvious. As well, this video is a bit old so not all the poles are there but most non-par 3s have 250, 200, and 150 yard poles,,,,, in the MIDDLE of the fairway, hence the availability of REMOVING them.

 

They are roughly 6 feet high, maybe 4-5 inches in circumference and weigh about a dozen pounds or so. Heavy enough they won't be blown away but not so heavy they can't be fairly easily removed. They sit in a sleeve embedded about a foot or 2 into the ground.

 

Around my area, 150-yard markers OFF the fairway, are usually fixed/immovable artificial objects, OR they're an obvious/singular bush or tree. There may also (or) be yardage posts embedded in the fairway - although I admit they're rare.

 

For the bush/tree off the fairway, they're either on the scorecard as free relief, OR they're not mentioned at all, in which case there is no free relief.

 

You're welcome. 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2024 by nsxguy

[david.c.w]

21 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

 

Myself and at least 1 other. 

 

The other 2 posters I can't be sure of but I suspect they may have been thinking pole in the middle of the fairway as well.

 

g.o.t. was responding to a post about the OB stake, but brought up movable markers as well,,,,,,,,

 

Here's a video of the back 9 at a course I used to play fairly regularly. At 1:38 and 1:46 you can see 2 of them. At 3:25 and again at 3:32 you can see 2 more.

 

It's a flyover and the poles aren't that obvious. As well, this video is a bit old so not all the poles are there but most non-par 3s have 250, 200, and 150 yard poles,,,,, in the MIDDLE of the fairway, hence the availability of REMOVING them.

 

They are roughly 6 feet high, maybe 4-5 inches in circumference and weigh about a dozen pounds or so. Heavy enough they won't be blown away but not so heavy they can't be fairly easily removed. They sit in a sleeve embedded about a foot or 2 into the ground.

 

Around my area, 150-yard markers OFF the fairway, are usually fixed/immovable artificial objects, OR they're an obvious/singular bush or tree. There may also (or) be yardage parkers embedded in the fairway.

 

For the bush/tree off the fairway, they're either on the scorecard as free relief, OR they're not mentioned at all, in which case there is no free relief.

 

You're welcome. 

 

 

 

 

I don't really see them much anymore.  But many, many courses had yardage poles smack in the middle of the fairway.  Similar construction to traffic poles separating a turn lane.  

[Mr. Bean]

36 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

It's a flyover and the poles aren't that obvious. As well, this video is a bit old so not all the poles are there but most non-par 3s have 250, 200, and 150 yard poles,,,,, in the MIDDLE of the fairway, hence the availability of REMOVING them.

 

 

You people just never stop astounding me! Distance poles in the MIDDLE of the fairway?? What an idiotic system...

[nsxguy]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

You people just never stop astounding me! Distance poles in the MIDDLE of the fairway?? What an idiotic system...

 

You are a riot.

 

You're a Rules Official. You, and others, are often astounded by what us Yanks do, especially regarding golf.

 

Yet YOU, at your home course, get a "manager" (or whoever), who makes an illegal Local Rule and you're "Oh well, what're ya gonna do - ain't my problem".

 

Hysterical. 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

You people just never stop astounding me! Distance poles in the MIDDLE of the fairway?? What an idiotic system...

 

Uhhh… there are a bunch of courses with them. They're almost always removable.

 

https://www.paraide.com/products/course-markings/marker-stakes/fairway-and-hazard-poles/

 

The 150-yard poles (often a 4x4) on the sides of the fairway are sometimes removable, but typically played as IOs because they don't want players moving them as after a few months they might be at 143 yards or 162 yards or something. 😄 

 

You make a lot of strange statements and die on a lot of really bad hills for a Rules Official. It's no wonder I didn't think you actually were one…

[Mr. Bean]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Uhhh… there are a bunch of courses with them. They're almost always removable.

 

 

I am sure they are but the problem in them is that a perfectly good stroke may end up hitting the pole and the ball might ricochet out of the fairway. That is why it makes absolutely no sense to have them on the fairway. Not to mention that greenkeepers will have to step off their mower twice for every pole.

 

P.S. I am not a Rules Official, I am a referee. But unlike you I do not know absolutely everything from everything. Seen that in TheSandTrap.

[Mr. Bean]

22 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

You are a riot.

 

You're a Rules Official. You, and others, are often astounded by what us Yanks do, especially regarding golf.

 

Yet YOU, at your home course, get a "manager" (or whoever), who makes an illegal Local Rule and you're "Oh well, what're ya gonna do - ain't my problem".

 

Hysterical. 

 

There are things in life one can have an impact to. Then there are those one cannot. Do you get bothered by those you cannot change?

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

I am sure they are but the problem in them is that a perfectly good stroke may end up hitting the pole and the ball might ricochet out of the fairway.

 

It could. But a 4x4 in the rough could deflect a bad shot back into the fairway, too. So…

 

I've seen people hit the poles in the fairways. Like two times ever. Neither saw the ball move more than about ten feet sideways.

 

I once saw a guy hit the top of a bell on the edge of a fairway intended to signal when the hole was clear. Like a 1 square inch metal surface at the top of a bell. The ball went another 50 yards forward into the right rough (big dogleg left over trees, par five).

 

56 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

That is why it makes absolutely no sense to have them on the fairway.

 

It can make sense… it shows where the fairway is (blind fairways for example), it gives an object to hit with a laser if you're trying to figure out what club to hit off the tee. There are other reasons, too.

 

56 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

But unlike you I do not know absolutely everything from everything.

 

Also unlike you, I tend to speak on topics I know pretty well. On others, I read or listen.

 

For example, on the topic here about poles in the fairway, you could have said "Oh, wow, I had no idea. Learn something new every day." when people share information that's new to you and contradicts info you previously thought to be accurate. 😛 

 

Edited June 7, 2024 by iacas
clarity

[nsxguy]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

There are things in life one can have an impact to. Then there are those one cannot. Do you get bothered by those you cannot change?

 

That's very prophetic. 

 

However, I would suggest that the vast majority of times one does not know the difference.

 

Strange how you continue to fight any point here on the forums, but in real life, it's "Whatever......" 

 

"You don't fight the fights you can win. You fight the fights that need fighting." 
 

[Colin L]

      v                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I would share - to an extent-  surprise  at the thought of distance markers in the middle of a fairway.  I son't see the point of putting them where they are liable to be on  a common line of play.  But there are plenty of  direction posts on the Scottish courses I know.which present the same problem.  On my own course they are movable but I haven't heard moans about them being not being put back in place.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Colin L said:

I would share - to an extent-  surprise  at the thought of distance markers in the middle of a fairway.  I son't see the point of putting them where they are liable to be on  a common line of play.  But there are plenty of  direction posts on the Scottish courses I know.which present the same problem.  On my own course they are movable but I haven't heard moans about them being not being put back in place.

 

Yeah, I don't see distance marking poles in the middle of the fairway much. The only one I can think of is a course I played outside San Antonio, TX. In fact the only reason I remember the pole is that it WAS in my way and I had to temporarily remove it. But as discussed, it was designed to allow that, as it was set in a sleeve in the fairway. 

 

But there are a lot more courses that I see that have directional/aim or reference poles visible from the tee, on blind holes, or holes with short doglegs or designs where ball placement is important so that you have an idea of what the carry yardage is to the pole. Each of those would have the same issue as a yardage marker in the middle of the fairway. 

 

Much more common on basically any course I've seen is to have distance posts on both sides in the rough painted red/white/blue to denote 100/150/200 yards from the center of the green. 

 

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Strange how you continue to fight any point here on the forums, but in real life, it's "Whatever......" 

 

 

You do not know me at all so you'd be surprised how much in real life I care for things that are not working well and fight to get them better, both in work as well as in hobbies. But at my age I have learned to give in when I see that there is no change to be.

 

But you will be happy to learn that I got that Local Rule changed now, finally.

[antip]

Distance marker pole in the middle of the fairway is something I have never seen (and hope never to). 

[david.c.w]

1 hour ago, antip said:

Distance marker pole in the middle of the fairway is something I have never seen (and hope never to). 

 

Certainly out of favor now, but they were a real thing 20+ years ago

[st1800e]

10 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Did someone actually THINK they are in the middle of the fairway?!?!??! Geeezzzzzz.....

Yes, have them on our course in the middle of the fairway, many courses in our part of the world have them, never seen them on each side of the fairway, and I’ve played over 500 courses…..

Geeez.  

[rogolf]

30 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Yes, have them on our course in the middle of the fairway, many courses in our part of the world have them, never seen them on each side of the fairway, and I’ve played over 500 courses…..

Geeez.  

Our course started with 150 yard markers (mugho pine bushes) on each side of the fairways, then switched to posts (4x4!) in the middle, finally reduced to about 3x3, now only plates at 200, 150 and 100.  The posts were movable, and great targets, but I don't miss them a bit.

Edited June 8, 2024 by rogolf

[Augster]

This is a cultural divide. Around here, we ONLY have posts in the middle of the fairway. On nearly all courses. In fact, it’s odd, and refreshing, when a course doesn’t have 150 posts in the middle. 
 

Then again, on those courses, a lot of the time you’re guessing where the fairway goes. 

[Imp]

18 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

You people just never stop astounding me! Distance poles in the MIDDLE of the fairway?? What an idiotic system...

 

 

[Colin L]

18 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

You people just never stop astounding me! Distance poles in the MIDDLE of the fairway?? What an idiotic system...

  Given how common  distance markers in the middle of the fairway seem to be or at least have been, perhaps  'these people'  had actually thought it through and had a sound reason for placing them there.  Can't see it myself, mind you but it wouldn't it be interesting to hear why? 

[Mr. Bean]

31 minutes ago, Colin L said:

  Given how common  distance markers in the middle of the fairway seem to be or at least have been, perhaps  'these people'  had actually thought it through and had a sound reason for placing them there.  Can't see it myself, mind you but it wouldn't it be interesting to hear why? 

 

It sure would. So far only reason presented has been aiming markers. We have aiming markers / poles as well in some few places (blind shots are bad course planning, IMO...) and they are on the fairway. The big difference seems to be that our aiming poles never come into play, so to speak, as people drive well past them.

 

As it happens, when one of Finland's undisputedly best golf courses was opened some 20 years ago there were quite extraordinary distance markers on the fairways. They were round balls of different colors, some 15 centimeters in diameter. The first time I saw them I asked myself wtf??? Obstacles on the fairways??? After a couple of years they were dispensed with and replaced with markers sunk into the ground, most likely for course maintenance reasons.

[Newby]

I can't say I have ever seen distance marker stakes in the middle of the fairway (even in Florida). They are either on both sides, flat plates in the middle or both.

[Colin L]

16 hours ago, Colin L said:

  Given how common  distance markers in the middle of the fairway seem to be or at least have been, perhaps  'these people'  had actually thought it through and had a sound reason for placing them there.  Can't see it myself, mind you but it wouldn't it be interesting to hear why? 

 

16 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

It sure would. .......

Then perhaps you would have had a better chance of hearing why if you had chosen to ask rather than deriding the practice as idiotic.  

 

Just wondering. 🤔

[Mr. Bean]

7 hours ago, Colin L said:

 

Then perhaps you would have had a better chance of hearing why if you had chosen to ask rather than deriding the practice as idiotic.  

 

Just wondering. 🤔

 

My "it sure would" was pure sarcasm.

[nsxguy]

On 6/8/2024 at 8:44 AM, Colin L said:

  Given how common  distance markers in the middle of the fairway seem to be or at least have been, perhaps  'these people'  had actually thought it through and had a sound reason for placing them there.  Can't see it myself, mind you but it wouldn't it be interesting to hear why? 

 

On 6/8/2024 at 9:23 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

It sure would. So far only reason presented has been aiming markers.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

My "it sure would" was pure sarcasm.

 

Really ? Doesn't sound that way to me.  

[Mr. Bean]

Just now, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

Really ? Doesn't sound that way to me.  

 

Then it does not, what can I do?

 

I tell you what. Next time I go to play I will ask from all players and members of greenkeeping staff I meet how would they feel if we had distance poles in the middle of the fairway. Let us see what they say. I also ask for pros and cons.

 

To start with I just asked my wife who has played golf a little over 20 years. She said "does not sound very rational" and"why should they be there?".

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

To start with I just asked my wife who has played golf a little over 20 years. She said "does not sound very rational" and"why should they be there?".

 

And yet, again… thousands of courses probably had them at one point. And there are sites that sell them, and so on.

 

So while you may not agree with the reasons, they certainly must have had "reasons" at some point.

[Dpavs]

Distance stakes in the middle of the fairway are fairly common around where I live in Michigan but they are only about 6 to 8 inches tall so they are seldom an issue.  They are considered movable obstructions and can fairly easily be moved and replaced if need be. That said, I have had the misfortune of hitting a few shots which came down directly into one causing them to carom off in a very unfavorable direction.

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Then it does not, what can I do?

 

 

Make yourself more easily understood ?

 

Pay more attention to what you write ?

 

Use an emoji - you did it answering to antip earlier. 

 

You ARE a Rules Official referee, are you not ? You are supposed to be accurate, are you not ? A pedant ? Or is that not necessary because you consider most(?) of us here to be as idiotic as the yardage poles ?

 

I mean, a lot of your posts just ooze with condescension - or do you not realize that ? You seem to have actually lightened up a little bit over the last 7 or 8 months, occasionally even showing a sense of humor. That was nice to see.

 

 

As for the rest, what does it matter ? To support your pov ? Fine. Knock yourself out. Take a poll.

 

Personally, poles in the middle of the fairway don't sound like a particularly good idea to me either, and fwiw that course I played/showed is the only one I can remember that used those poles.

 

But I try to be pretty careful with "extreme" comments/points of view, as the origins of most any idea may have been based on sound reasoning,,,,,,,,, at the time - much like the Rules of Golf you hold so dear.

 

And in these days of rangefinders, there are still plenty of golfers who don't use them. They likely understand that they're not good enough to need an exact distance, or even be close to it,,,,,, on almost any shot.

 

And for those guys and gals, seeing that pole is much easier than running around looking for yardage markers buried in the fairway, no ? Especially for p-o-p purposes. 

 

Anyway, just another tempest in a teapot. 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2024 by nsxguy