Moving an OB stake.

[Augster]

I BS you not, after making my post yesterday, on the 11th hole I hit the stupid 150 marker and almost had a lost ball. I found it, well out in the right rough, about 50 yards right of my perfectly struck shot, and had 30 seconds left on my 3 minute clock. 
 

As many of you have said, they don’t make any sense to me. Even worse, this year, my course has gone to all red flags with no indicator anywhere of Front/Middle/back. So I have to shoot the flag, then cross reference that distance with my GPS yardage, or a plate yardage, to help figure it out.

 

I played a course last week with R/W/B pins. It was heavenly. 

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

And in these days of rangefinders, there are still plenty of golfers who don't use them. They likely understand that they're not good enough to need an exact distance, or even be close to it,,,,,, on almost any shot.

 

And for those guys and gals, seeing that pole is much easier than running around looking for yardage markers buried in the fairway, no ? Especially for p-o-p purposes. 

 

 

We have poles or other kinds of well visible distance markers typically on both sides of the fairway so nobody with no DMD has to run around. Those poles do not interfere with fairway mowing which poles on the fairway do. Additionall almost (or probably) every course has distance markers sunk into the fairway, again, not interfering lawn mowing, which I see as the biggest negative (but by far not the only one) thing about poles in the middle of the fairway.

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

We have poles or other kinds of well visible distance markers typically on both sides of the fairway so nobody with no DMD has to run around. Those poles do not interfere with fairway mowing which poles on the fairway do. Additionall almost (or probably) every course has distance markers sunk into the fairway, again, not interfering lawn mowing, which I see as the biggest negative (but by far not the only one) thing about poles in the middle of the fairway.

 

Thousands of courses have at one time or another used them. I imagine very few of them did so for no reason whatsoever. You know what they say about making assumptions.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

Thousands of courses have at one time or another used them. I imagine very few of them did so for no reason whatsoever. You know what they say about making assumptions.

 

No course in my country has ever used them. Ever. I magine there must be a reason.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

No course in my country has ever used them. Ever. I magine there must be a reason.

 

The point I made was that if you were going to assume anything, it would be that the courses that DO have these installed (or did), have/had a reason for doing so.

 

Anyway, not the topic anymore… courses have these, and have reasons for doing so, and they're typically removable for both mowing and so that players can move them to continue to play (even for the pole being on their line of play)… and if their ball is resting against the non-movable sleeve, they get to drop away from an IO.

[david.c.w]

I have been saving this meme for the right occasion.  I think it is time.

 

[Mr. Bean]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

 

The point I made was that if you were going to assume anything, it would be that the courses that DO have these installed (or did), have/had a reason for doing so.

 

Anyway, not the topic anymore… courses have these, and have reasons for doing so, 

 

Absolutely. Most people have reasons for their doing. The question here lies whether the reasons were good or not.

 

So, yesterday evening I sent a quest for nine of my golfing friends, four of them referees. The question was: "Should 100, 150, 200 meter distance poles be in the middle of the fairway? Pros and cons."

 

I got six (3/3) responses and I collected them here (most responses had more than one pro/con as desired):

 

Pro:

-          Visible (2)

-          for top players better planning for stroke (1)

 

Con:

-          obstacles for players (2)

-          more work for greenkeepers (6)

-          ugly (4)

-          ball bounces off (2)

-          not fair (from players’ point of view)

-          unnecessary rulings (2)

-          slows down play (2)

 

It seems that around here the majority feels the distance poles should not be in the fairway.

 

Then there is this one thing I had not remembered but was brought out by one of the referees. Our distance poles being in the rough gives a nice aiming point to find the ball whenever one misses the fairway.

 

Your turn, Erik. Tell me and the rest of the world what were the (good) reasons why distance poles where put in the middle of the fairway. There must have been many in those days but do they sustain..? 

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, david.c.w said:

I have been saving this meme for the right occasion.  I think it is time.

 

 

Meme or not, there is a reason why Finland is nr1 and USA comes far behind.

[david.c.w]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Absolutely. Most people have reasons for their doing. The question here lies whether the reasons were good or not.

 

So, yesterday evening I sent a quest for nine of my golfing friends, four of them referees. The question was: "Should 100, 150, 200 meter distance poles be in the middle of the fairway? Pros and cons."

 

I got six (3/3) responses and I collected them here (most responses had more than one pro/con as desired):

 

Pro:

-          Visible (2)

-          for top players better planning for stroke (1)

 

Con:

-          obstacles for players (2)

-          more work for greenkeepers (6)

-          ugly (4)

-          ball bounces off (2)

-          not fair (from players’ point of view)

-          unnecessary rulings (2)

-          slows down play (2)

 

It seems that around here the majority feels the distance poles should not be in the fairway.

 

Then there is this one thing I had not remembered but was brought out by one of the referees. Our distance poles being in the rough gives a nice aiming point to find the ball whenever one misses the fairway.

 

Your turn, Erik. Tell me and the rest of the world what were the (good) reasons why distance poles where put in the middle of the fairway. There must have been many in those days but do they sustain..? 

 

Why would any of the cons be different for a pole in the rough vs a pole in the middle?  May even be worse as there might be more golfers in the rough than the fairway.  I would also throw out that a distance pole in the rough raises the question of is the distance 150 from the pole or the center of the fairway?  Certainly everyone around the globe is aware of geometry, angles, and the Pythagorean theorem.  

 

And if we have a pole on each side of the rough we have doubled the opportunity for the cons to come into play.

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

4 hours ago, david.c.w said:

 

Why would any of the cons be different for a pole in the rough vs a pole in the middle?  May even be worse as there might be more golfers in the rough than the fairway.  I would also throw out that a distance pole in the rough raises the question of is the distance 150 from the pole or the center of the fairway?  Certainly everyone around the globe is aware of geometry, angles, and the Pythagorean theorem.  

 

And if we have a pole on each side of the rough we have doubled the opportunity for the cons to come into play.

 

 

 

Yeah, I might make the argument that a player who hits the ball in the middle of the fairway isn't exactly "entitled" to, but is probably more deserving of, an easier distance measurement than a player in the rough. Why should some duffer who hit it in the rough get a nice post a few yards away telling them the distance while the guy in the middle of the fairway has to estimate from something 30 yards off the hole's playing line? 

 

[nsxguy]

13 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, I might make the argument that a player who hits the ball in the middle of the fairway isn't exactly "entitled" to, but is probably more deserving of, an easier distance measurement than a player in the rough. Why should some duffer who hit it in the rough get a nice post a few yards away telling them the distance while the guy in the middle of the fairway has to estimate from something 30 yards off the hole's playing line? 

 

 

We're talking about 2-3 yards. That duffer isn't good enough for it to make a difference.

 

Heck, most of us aren't. 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2024 by nsxguy

[david.c.w]

37 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

We're talking about 2-3 yards. That duffer isn't good enough for it to make a difference.

 

Heck, most of us aren't. 

 

 

 

Depends on the hole layout and perceived distance and hole location and other factors.  Could easily be the difference of 10 yards if even a slight dogleg

 

My point is that a pole is a pole and whether it is in the center of the fairway or in the rough, everything is the same with the exception of it being ugly in the fairway, although some people will say they prefer it as an aiming point.

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, david.c.w said:

Depends on the hole layout and perceived distance and hole location and other factors.  Could easily be the difference of 10 yards if even a slight dogleg

 

I was actually kidding around a little.

 

If there was a 150-yd marker on both sides of the fairway,,,,,, in a straight line from each outer marker through the 150-yd  disc/plate/pole in the middle of the fairway,,,,, both at 20yds from the (150 yard) center of the fairway marker each pole would be 151.3 yards from the center of the green.

 

So imagine a slight arc.  

 

 

 

I really didn't want to get deeply into this but a 150-yd marker, wherever it is placed should be 150 yards from the center of the green. Full stop.

 

That would (also) take care of the dogleg issue.                                     

[Mr. Bean]

14 hours ago, david.c.w said:

 

Why would any of the cons be different for a pole in the rough vs a pole in the middle?  May even be worse as there might be more golfers in the rough than the fairway.  I would also throw out that a distance pole in the rough raises the question of is the distance 150 from the pole or the center of the fairway?  Certainly everyone around the globe is aware of geometry, angles, and the Pythagorean theorem.  

 

And if we have a pole on each side of the rough we have doubled the opportunity for the cons to come into play.

 

 

 

As you probably saw from the con list the biggest concern is greenkeeping. Fairways are cut every day during the growing season which means more work (= higher cost) for a greenkeeper lifting and replacing poles in the fairway. Roughs are not cut every day and it is even possible simply to go around the distance pole in the rough as it is not that important to have the surroundings cut neatly as it is on the fairway.

 

It is also important to remember what I have written earlier that there is a 100, 150 and 200 m marker in the midddle of every fairway needed sunk into the ground. Thus a player has sufficiently accurate information regardless of their whereabouts. Furthermore, on many courses those markers are a bunch of thin and rigid plastic "threads" of different colors standing upright but bend down when lawnmower runs over it. Those are easily visible from the tee and never are on anyone's line of play nor do ricochet balls in unfavourable directions.

 

And you are right, it is possible to land a ball behind a pole also in the rough but as they are IO's (on my home course) you get a free relief for CATS. If it is on your line of play then it is you to blame for hitting a poor shot. Then you just have to work on the ball and get it fly around the pole. Excellent practice!

 

It is obvious that in former days someone saw it fit to have distance poles standing in the middle of the fairway (although I still cannot think of why due to the cons) but with today's technology there is absolutely no reason for that, IMHO.

 

Edited June 11, 2024 by Mr. Bean

[iacas]

20 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Absolutely. Most people have reasons for their doing. The question here lies whether the reasons were good or not.

 

Let's be clear: the "question" is pretty far off topic, and different people (or courses) will weight the value of pros and cons differently than you or I might.

 

Since it's off topic…

 

Spoiler

20 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

So, yesterday evening I sent a quest for nine of my golfing friends, four of them referees. The question was: "Should 100, 150, 200 meter distance poles be in the middle of the fairway? Pros and cons."

 

To be clear, most courses at which I've seen them have a pole at 150 only, or occasionally 100 on a shorter hole where 150 is likely pretty far back (i.e. like a drivable par four where good players might lay back with a 4I or something).

 

20 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Con:

- obstacles for players (2)

- more work for greenkeepers (6)

- ugly (4)

- ball bounces off (2)

- not fair (from players’ point of view)

- unnecessary rulings (2)

- slows down play (2)

 

As has been pointed out, all are true (and sometimes doubly so) for having two of these in the rough.

 

20 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Your turn, Erik.

 

I'm not a golf course that's used them, so while you're trying to "win" something, I'm simply here pointing out that you've made a bunch of silly or shortsighted comments, and even your survey is lacking validity as you overlooked that poles in the rough encounter the same issues, particularly so when there are six of them or three of them instead of just the one.

 

Again, it's off topic, and I was simply reacting to your inability to comprehend that other courses may do something other than what you deem to be best:

 

On 6/7/2024 at 12:29 PM, Mr. Bean said:

Did someone actually THINK they are in the middle of the fairway?!?!??! Geeezzzzzz.....

 

There's a big world out there, man. It may behoove you to consider that not everything is as @Mr. Bean thinks is best.

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

As you probably saw from the con list the biggest concern is greenkeeping. Fairways are cut every day during the growing season which means more work (= higher cost) for a greenkeeper lifting and replacing poles in the fairway.

 

I asked the head pro at the course where they have these poles (one, on 13 fairways, as one is a drivable par four with no need for a marker).

 

He said it adds 30 seconds to the mowing of each fairway. The course must deem it worthy the extra seven minutes of labor every other or third day (they don't mow every day) for the customer experience.

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Roughs are not cut every day and it is even possible simply to go around the distance pole in the rough as it is not that important to have the surroundings cut neatly as it is on the fairway.

 

So the person who hits near one of the poles should be okay with having their ball in a strip of rough that hasn't been mowed in a week? Okay.

 

Truth is your biggest "con" is something that costs the mower 30 seconds every other day or so, and isn't eliminated at all if you have poles in the rough (six poles in the rough could be worse, in fact, despite the lower frequency of mowing than a single 150-yard marker in the fairway).

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

It is also important to remember what I have written earlier that there is a 100, 150 and 200 m marker in the midddle of every fairway needed sunk into the ground.

 

Can't see it from the tee. Lots of the courses around here mark the tops of sprinkler heads, so there are actually distance markers every 20-30 yards. It's not necessarily a choice between sunk distance markers and poles.

 

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

And you are right, it is possible to land a ball behind a pole also in the rough but as they are IO's (on my home course) you get a free relief for CATS. If it is on your line of play then it is you to blame for hitting a poor shot. Then you just have to work on the ball and get it fly around the pole. Excellent practice!

 

I forgot; everything they do your way is the best, and there can't possibly be any other explanation for any other sort of method employed elsewhere.

 

Thank you for reminding us, oh all-knowing one. You should email the thousands of courses with 150-yard poles and tell them they're doing it wrong.

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

It is obvious that in former days someone saw it fit to have distance poles standing in the middle of the fairway (although I still cannot think of why due to the cons) but with today's technology there is absolutely no reason for that, IMHO.

 

Yep, no reason whatsoever. Everyone but @Mr. Bean is dumb.

 

[Mr. Bean]

57 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Let's be clear: the "question" is pretty far off topic, and different people (or courses) will weight the value of pros and cons differently than you or I might.

 

Since it's off topic…

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

To be clear, most courses at which I've seen them have a pole at 150 only, or occasionally 100 on a shorter hole where 150 is likely pretty far back (i.e. like a drivable par four where good players might lay back with a 4I or something).

 

 

As has been pointed out, all are true (and sometimes doubly so) for having two of these in the rough.

 

 

I'm not a golf course that's used them, so while you're trying to "win" something, I'm simply here pointing out that you've made a bunch of silly or shortsighted comments, and even your survey is lacking validity as you overlooked that poles in the rough encounter the same issues, particularly so when there are six of them or three of them instead of just the one.

 

Again, it's off topic, and I was simply reacting to your inability to comprehend that other courses may do something other than what you deem to be best:

 

 

There's a big world out there, man. It may behoove you to consider that not everything is as @Mr. Bean thinks is best.

 

 

I asked the head pro at the course where they have these poles (one, on 13 fairways, as one is a drivable par four with no need for a marker).

 

He said it adds 30 seconds to the mowing of each fairway. The course must deem it worthy the extra seven minutes of labor every other or third day (they don't mow every day) for the customer experience.

 

 

So the person who hits near one of the poles should be okay with having their ball in a strip of rough that hasn't been mowed in a week? Okay.

 

Truth is your biggest "con" is something that costs the mower 30 seconds every other day or so, and isn't eliminated at all if you have poles in the rough (six poles in the rough could be worse, in fact, despite the lower frequency of mowing than a single 150-yard marker in the fairway).

 

 

Can't see it from the tee. Lots of the courses around here mark the tops of sprinkler heads, so there are actually distance markers every 20-30 yards. It's not necessarily a choice between sunk distance markers and poles.

 

 

 

I forgot; everything they do your way is the best, and there can't possibly be any other explanation for any other sort of method employed elsewhere.

 

Thank you for reminding us, oh all-knowing one. You should email the thousands of courses with 150-yard poles and tell them they're doing it wrong.

 

 

Yep, no reason whatsoever. Everyone but @Mr. Bean is dumb.

 

 

I sure have got under your skin, man. Nobody would go through that much trouble otherwise...

 

P.S. As you may have read, I got pretty much the same opinion from 6 of my friends so I am not completely alone with this. None of those persons would place the poles in the middle of the fairway.

[betarhoalphadelta]

One suggestion here:

 

Quote

A post in the middle of the fairway may or may not be the best method to indicate distances from the greens. But, it is likely the cheapest.

 

I'd be inclined to agree that a single 150 yard pole is probably one of the cheapest and easiest ways to indicate distance. 

 

My preference would typically be marked sprinkler heads. Which might seem cheaper (since the sprinklers are already sunk into the ground), but when you realize you'd have to get every adhesive plaque made for every sprinkler head, and then you'd need to potentially have replacement plaques in case the adhesive fails over time or the sprinkler head needs to be replaced, so I think that cost could add up over time. 

 

[Mr. Bean]

6 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I'd be inclined to agree that a single 150 yard pole is probably one of the cheapest and easiest ways to indicate distance. 

 

 

Good call. In the past that may have been so but today the plastic threads I was talking about in one of my posts are definitively much cheaper way. Also the round ones you embed into the ground are cheaper to put in place than a removable pole but then you lose the visual contact afar, if that is something one prefers to have.

 

I wonder what would the total costs be for setting up various distance poles and the percentage from the over all costs of building a golf course from scratch. And I can imagine that putting up two fixed poles outside the fairway is quite a bit cheaper than installing a removable pole in the fairway.

[SheriffBooth]

It seems as though OP's questions have been asked and answered.  If you guys want to have a thread about yardage markers, please start a new one.

 

/thread