Dispute

[RangeBaller]

Incredible.  The most discouraging thing I've seen on WRX.
 

No amount of explanation could change the obvious truth here.  Buyer received refund (forced or not), buyer returns item.  People think this is Amazon and sellers will just write it off or something?

[golffeen007]

At this point , with all the deflection on answering about sending it back, he more than likely gave it to his buddy that came in here with the potty mouth and he’s getting a new insert.
Got a feeling a current picture with a timestamp couldn’t be taken in hand today. 

[ChrisSP]

I'm embarrassed for @rocklinsam -- disgraceful.

[gripANDrip1983]

14 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I'm sorry, did I miss that elsewhere in the thread ?

 

I noticed him avoiding saying anything about returning the putter but I didn't see where he said that he wasn't going to.

 

 

He’s been dancing around me asking for the putter back for several hours now. I’ve also been asking him through text to send it back and he’s not budging. If he didn’t dent the insert like his pics show then it happened while UPS had it. He never showed me any pics of the face after he received it. Only informing me of the dent in it and I knew there were some blemishes that are very typical of a pure roll insert ( check out Keith Mitchell’s trusty spider he used to use). So he’s  pretty much said he’s not sending it back without actually saying it.

[gripANDrip1983]

11 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

At this point , with all the deflection on answering about sending it back, he more than likely gave it to his buddy that came in here with the potty mouth and he’s getting a new insert.
Got a feeling a current picture with a timestamp couldn’t be taken in hand today. 

I asked him to send me a fresh pic through text and of course he danced around that also. You’re prolly right, his buddy that chimed in earlier is in this scam with him. It’s truly disgraceful to be honest and it puts a pitt in my stomach. Not so much because of the money, but because wrx is supposed to be a gentleman’s forum and his actions make me sick.

[gripANDrip1983]

I showed him this pic of Keith Mitchell’s trusty spider and explained to him that pure roll inserts wear over time with regular use. He never once showed me a pic of a dented face and I would never sell a product that is defective without disclosing it first. Either UPS did it or he did. 

[jblough99]

Karma always has a way of balancing these things out.  Buyers is just to young to realize that.

[SBH9458]

I don’t like this one at all. Not one bit.  

[gripANDrip1983]

3 minutes ago, jblough99 said:

Karma always has a way of balancing these things out.  Buyers is just to young to realize that.

I agree

[MysteryV]

The buyer is clearly not being forthright.  He's avoided questions around returning the putter.  He's selectively shown snippets which validate his perspective, but doesn't show what led to those responses.  For example, he shows a response to what is likely a request for "warranty claim" rather than a request for paid repair.  Faces are pretty easy to replace - and I doubt TM is refusing to do that work.  

 

That said, it appears that the seller may well have knowingly sold a damaged putter (the angle of the picture shared looks like it was taking at an angle that obfuscated or minimized the insert damage).  He also had many opportunities to refund the guy, and each time dismissed the buyers requests, and refused to refund him.

 

HOWEVER - given how things have played out, my guess is that this was the buyers plan the entire time. Had the seller refunded the money, the buyer likely would not have sent back the putter regardless (as illustrated by his current behavior).

 

I think the lesson learned here is never to sell to folks with low post counts.  It's a lesson I would have thought was obvious before this thread, but seems to need reinforcing.  

[golffeen007]

6 minutes ago, gripANDrip1983 said:

I asked him to send me a fresh pic through text and of course he danced around that also. You’re prolly right, his buddy that chimed in earlier is in this scam with him. It’s truly disgraceful to be honest and it puts a pitt in my stomach. Not so much because of the money, but because wrx is supposed to be a gentleman’s forum and his actions make me sick.

You can obviously see wear from your side picture , it doesn’t look broken as his picture shows , but you also failed to give a face on up close picture in your add to be clear and transparent of the amount of wear. Thats very important in each and every add. 
But, the issue with the buyer on getting your putter back shouldn’t exist at this point. 

[gripANDrip1983]

1 minute ago, MysteryV said:

The buyer is clearly not being forthright.  He's avoided questions around returning the putter.  He's selectively shown snippets which validate his perspective, but doesn't show what led to those responses.  For example, he shows a response to what is likely a request for "warranty claim" rather than a request for paid repair.  Faces are pretty easy to replace - and I doubt TM is refusing to do that work.  

 

That said, it appears that the seller may well have knowingly sold a damaged putter (the angle of the picture shared looks like it was taking at an angle that obfuscated or minimized the insert damage).  He also had many opportunities to refund the guy, and each time dismissed the buyers requests, and refused to refund him.

 

HOWEVER - given how things have played out, my guess is that this was the buyers plan the entire time. Had the seller refunded the money, the buyer likely would not have sent back the putter regardless (as illustrated by his current behavior).

 

I think the lesson learned here is never to sell to folks with low post counts.  It's a lesson I would have thought was obvious before this thread, but seems to need reinforcing.  

I assure you that the insert wasn’t dented. I took that angle of the pic because it showed the condition the best just like the angle the buyer took shows the best angle. It either happened after he got it or during shipping. I’m going to defend myself on this because I’ve sold a bunch of high end tour issued putters on this forum and would never sell a defective product without disclosing it.

[gripANDrip1983]

2 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

You can obviously see wear from your side picture , it doesn’t look broken as his picture shows , but you also failed to give a face on up close picture in your add to be clear and transparent of the amount of wear. Thats very important in each and every add. 
But, the issue with the buyer on getting your putter back shouldn’t exist at this point. 

I’ll most definitely show more angles in future sales. I’m trying to pinch as many positives from this mess as possible.

[ilikegolf26]

2 hours ago, rocklinsam said:

Let me be very clear. The putter face is indented. I will send a photo of the face. I offered plenty of times when I recieved the putter to send it back for refund. He did not trust me with saying it was indented as I got professional opinions from my head pro and member who is a second hand taylormade rep. They all agreed. I offered to him plenty of times to return it for refund and he told me to just go ahead and sell it back to someone else and say that it is normal wear. As a hardcore golfer, that doesn’t sit right with me. I will not sell something that is defective and say that it is normal wear. And as a golfer for me I bought this putter to play tournaments with and I cannot use it because the indentation in the middle of the face. I had plenty of people tell me to file a claim to PayPal and I ended up doing that. The claim also is run back to the buyer and he never contacted them back. I eventually got my money back. Now he is requesting me to send it back as I asked him to do before. I will send photos of the indent and our chats

“Hardcore golfer” in this thread.
SEND THE PUTTER BACK! You don’t get to keep the putter and get the refund!

 

Another guy added to the block list. 

[Valtiel]

Just now, gripANDrip1983 said:

I asked him to send me a fresh pic through text and of course he danced around that also. You’re prolly right, his buddy that chimed in earlier is in this scam with him. It’s truly disgraceful to be honest and it puts a pitt in my stomach. Not so much because of the money, but because wrx is supposed to be a gentleman’s forum and his actions make me sick.

Yeah his "buddy" coming in here to accuse *you* of being the scammer reeks of projection in a "the best defense is a strong offense" kind of way. That kind of hostility is really telling given that you don't hold any cards here and feels like its just setup to keep you on the defensive while they rip you off. 

[gripANDrip1983]

Hey I want to let you guys know I genuinely appreciate everyone’s input on this matter. Y’all are helping me bite this bullet more than you know. Hopefully everyone and especially me can learn something from this. I know I have. I’m gonna bow out for the night because this is just one of the several things I’m dealing with right now that’s causing me a ton of anxiety. Again, I really appreciate the input from you guys. Y’all have a blessed night!!

[jblough99]

Agree with @golffeen007 and @MysteryV

 

Clearly issues with the original photos and description as “normal” wear, however that doesn’t relieve the buyer of his responsibilities to return the putter after getting his refund.

 

@gripANDrip1983 I’m on your side in this situation but please stop saying the damage happened in shipping, that’s not helping your credibility.  If you’ve sold as many high end putters as you just claimed, you would know how to properly package and ship items so this damage would be impossible during shipping. 

[kdog25]

Regardless of what happened until this point, @rocklinsamis an absolute scumbag if he doesn’t send the putter back. 

[gripANDrip1983]

4 minutes ago, jblough99 said:

Agree with @golffeen007 and @MysteryV

 

Clearly issues with the original photos and description as “normal” wear, however that doesn’t relieve the buyer of his responsibilities to return the putter after getting his refund.

 

@gripANDrip1983 I’m on your side in this situation but please stop saying the damage happened in shipping, that’s not helping your credibility.  If you’ve sold as many high end putters as you just claimed, you would know how to properly package and ship items so this damage would be impossible during shipping. 

You’re right, that’s a great point. I appreciate that input. I’ve never been done dirty like this before so I’m reaching for any explanation at this point. Thanks again

Edited June 11, 2024 by gripANDrip1983

[Valtiel]

16 minutes ago, gripANDrip1983 said:

You’re right, that’s a great point. I appreciate that input. I’ve never been done dirty like this before so I’m reaching for any explanation at this point. Thanks again

Please keep us posted if anything changes with the situation. 🙏

Edited June 12, 2024 by Valtiel

[gripANDrip1983]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

Please keep us posted if anything changes with the situation. 🙏

I definitely will. Thx

[Anser3]

4 hours ago, rocklinsam said:

Let me be very clear. The putter face is indented. I will send a photo of the face. I offered plenty of times when I recieved the putter to send it back for refund. He did not trust me with saying it was indented as I got professional opinions from my head pro and member who is a second hand taylormade rep. They all agreed. I offered to him plenty of times to return it for refund and he told me to just go ahead and sell it back to someone else and say that it is normal wear. As a hardcore golfer, that doesn’t sit right with me. I will not sell something that is defective and say that it is normal wear. And as a golfer for me I bought this putter to play tournaments with and I cannot use it because the indentation in the middle of the face. I had plenty of people tell me to file a claim to PayPal and I ended up doing that. The claim also is run back to the buyer and he never contacted them back. I eventually got my money back. Now he is requesting me to send it back as I asked him to do before. I will send photos of the indent and our chats

 

Being a "hardcore golfer" doesn't make you special.  You have a reasonable expectation to receive a BST item  that is as described from the seller.  Even if you dispute that (on the seller's side on this one), you  have a responsibility to return the item since the refund was issued. At this point  you are stealing the putter.  Pure and simple.   Just saying that is how it is.  You were refunded.  You didn't send the putter back.  

 

Another added to the ignore list.  Yet another reason why I will not sell to members who make zero posts on threads except for WTB ads or send personal messages regarding BST ads. I wish there was some way golfwrx mods could establish rules against this, akin to the BST restrictions  (requiring a  minimum number of posts, etc).

 

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Anser3

[Bad9]

2 hours ago, rocklinsam said:

Let me be very clear. The putter face is indented. I will send a photo of the face. I offered plenty of times when I recieved the putter to send it back for refund. He did not trust me with saying it was indented as I got professional opinions from my head pro and member who is a second hand taylormade rep. They all agreed. I offered to him plenty of times to return it for refund and he told me to just go ahead and sell it back to someone else and say that it is normal wear. As a hardcore golfer, that doesn’t sit right with me. I will not sell something that is defective and say that it is normal wear. And as a golfer for me I bought this putter to play tournaments with and I cannot use it because the indentation in the middle of the face. I had plenty of people tell me to file a claim to PayPal and I ended up doing that. The claim also is run back to the buyer and he never contacted them back. I eventually got my money back. Now he is requesting me to send it back as I asked him to do before. I will send photos of the indent and our chats

 

I might believe that there was more use/damage than was depicted in the ad but your refusal to send the putter back (as per PP policy) once you got your refund pretty much guarantees you'll never make a deal on Wrx again. Thats if you're not outright banned. You buddy who chimed in is undoubtedly in that club now as well.

[ilikegolf26]

Why doesn’t PayPal require that he send the putter back? Because the seller didn’t respond to the dispute? Had he just responded then the buyer would have to send it back, per PayPal?

[MysteryV]

9 minutes ago, gripANDrip1983 said:

I assure you that the insert wasn’t dented. I took that angle of the pic because it showed the condition the best just like the angle the buyer took shows the best angle. It either happened after he got it or during shipping. I’m going to defend myself on this because I’ve sold a bunch of high end tour issued putters on this forum and would never sell a defective product without disclosing it.

 

If you're looking to learn from this experience, learn this:  This is the same tone, response, defensiveness, and demeanor included in your messages to the buyer.  If you notice, it's "Y’all have a blessed night!!" to the folks you're trying to convince that you're in the right, and "I’m going to defend myself on this" when reasonable questions are raised.  While I believe you're ultimately the victim here - this type of "polite when it suits me" tone does not make people want to help you - and may be what scammers use to justify scamming you.

 

[Jeff58]

In before lockout.

 

[gripANDrip1983]

11 minutes ago, MysteryV said:

 

If you're looking to learn from this experience, learn this:  This is the same tone, response, defensiveness, and demeanor included in your messages to the buyer.  If you notice, it's "Y’all have a blessed night!!" to the folks you're trying to convince that you're in the right, and "I’m going to defend myself on this" when reasonable questions are raised.  While I believe you're ultimately the victim here - this type of "polite when it suits me" tone does not make people want to help you - and may be what scammers use to justify scamming you.

 

I’m catching your drift. Noted

[jblough99]

1 minute ago, Jeff58 said:

In before lockout.

 

 
You’re late to the lockout, that happened a few hours ago.  You already missed all the fun.

[Anser3]

What is the username of the friend so I can add him to the ignore list as well?  I'm not seeing his post/defense of the buyer. 

[radiman]

3 hours ago, rocklinsam said:

I am not selling the putter nor will I. I have contacted taylormade about fixing it and there is nothing they can do about it. I don’t plan on selling it to make my money back. He sold me a defective product and I am not gonna sell it to someone else because of that

 

My brother in Christ. You cannot get a refund for something and not return the product. 
 

Whatever happened from point A to refund is irrelevant. Money has been returned and you’re obligated to return the putter. 
 

I’m not saying you’re in the wrong on the PayPal dispute. But you’re 100% in the wrong if you’re just planning on keeping that putter.