Dispute

[bking556]

2 minutes ago, radiman said:

I’m not saying you’re in the wrong on the PayPal dispute. But you’re 100% in the wrong if you’re just planning on keeping that putter. 

This is the only thing that matters now. What’s done is done, now it’s up to you to do the right thing to put this to rest.  @rocklinsam

[JimmyC59]

After reading this thread and many like it, I'm sticking with eBay. I'm in the process of selling some vintage clubs and have made 11 sales in the last couple of weeks with no problems whatsoever. Yes eBay kills you with fees, but nothing like this has ever happened to me in 22 years as an ebayer.

[straightshot7]

How was PayPal trying to contact you with no response? Email? Phone?

 

how can PayPal issue a refund without requiring the buyer to return the putter?

 

If I was the seller I would be escalating this (look up email addresses of higher ups at PayPal if necessary) to PayPal so they at least hear your side of the story. That is ridiculous. 
 

buyer is clearly acting like a SCUM bag. 
 

also, as others have said … you have to have a clear face on angle of the face … that would clearly show it wasn’t dented when you shipped. 

Edited June 12, 2024 by straightshot7

[LittleDrGolfer]

Reading through this thread, it just worries me that things like this happen. I'm new to the forums, and have purchased several items despite not having feedback. The people here are friendly and helpful so far. Hopeful that this is more of an isolated incident.

 

Good luck to the seller, if not, sorry for your loss.

[straightshot7]

1 minute ago, LittleDrGolfer said:

Reading through this thread, it just worries me that things like this happen. I'm new to the forums, and have purchased several items despite not having feedback. The people here are friendly and helpful so far. Hopeful that this is more of an isolated incident.

 

Good luck to the seller, if not, sorry for your loss.

99% are good. I still feel it’s well worth the risk. Just avoid the bad 1%. If the person has a strong track record of sales/purchases/posts — it’s safe. Pay with pay pal goods and services. 

[agladden]

I'm sure this putter will be found on eBay in a few months...unbelievable.  Just ship the thing back.

[TheMoneyShot]

The buyer should get banned from this site if he doesn’t send the putter back.  What a low class POS to get a full refund and then keep the putter too.  

[circa3182]

He needs to send back the putter AND the 30% off code!

[nsxguy]

 

Just now

 

 

[jblough99]

3 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Just now

 

 

 

He’s been following along all day.  He knows he’s in the wrong.  I don’t expect him to reply again in this thread.  

[zip7111]

At least CALL PayPal and explain the situation.  They have been very helpful when I have called in the past.  I cant imagine it is standard protocol to put your account in the negative and not get your item back.

Edited June 12, 2024 by zip7111

[Bad9]

I wonder if the buyer is an Oregon Ducks fan?

[Bad9]

I wonder if the buyer is an Oregon Ducks fan?

[Avidswampthing66]

We've seen 3-4 of these in the last 6 months which is alarming.  Actually, one of the previous "scammers" was posting on BST recently.  I chuckled bc he's a clown but really wish he NO LONGER HAD ACCESS TO BST.

[bking556]

23 minutes ago, LittleDrGolfer said:

Reading through this thread, it just worries me that things like this happen. I'm new to the forums, and have purchased several items despite not having feedback. The people here are friendly and helpful so far. Hopeful that this is more of an isolated incident.

 

Good luck to the seller, if not, sorry for your loss.

This isn’t the typical result. There’s a reason this thread has exploded with people backing the seller.

[T_Golf_23]

2 hours ago, gripANDrip1983 said:

He’s been dancing around me asking for the putter back for several hours now. I’ve also been asking him through text to send it back and he’s not budging. If he didn’t dent the insert like his pics show then it happened while UPS had it. He never showed me any pics of the face after he received it. Only informing me of the dent in it and I knew there were some blemishes that are very typical of a pure roll insert ( check out Keith Mitchell’s trusty spider he used to use). So he’s  pretty much said he’s not sending it back without actually saying it.

Potentially photoshopped? You can easily create that bending with photoshop or Canva. 
 

this is why you are not getting it returned, bc there may actually be no damage. 

Edited June 12, 2024 by T_Golf_23

[wsupjs]

49 minutes ago, JimmyC59 said:

After reading this thread and many like it, I'm sticking with eBay. I'm in the process of selling some vintage clubs and have made 11 sales in the last couple of weeks with no problems whatsoever. Yes eBay kills you with fees, but nothing like this has ever happened to me in 22 years as an ebayer.

 

As long as you're not selling something super unique that requires more reach to find the right buyer, selling locally is almost always the best option.

 

It's really the best of all worlds: instant payment, don't have to pay selling fees or shipping, and no potential threat of returns or PayPal scam issues.

 

Even as someone with hundreds of positive selling experiences over the years, and only one scammer (which resulted in me setting a personal rule to never doing any more international deals), I push for local before listing anywhere that requires shipping. If it doesn't sell local, then I push out.

 

But back on topic, @rocklinsam is a real scumbag if they're not going to return the putter after receiving the refund. They should be banned from the site, along with whoever jumped in to support them before the thread was cleaned up.

Edited June 12, 2024 by wsupjs

[jrg75]

Dumb question, why wouldn't PayPal reverse the refund once you prove the putter wasn't returned (e.g. buyer can't produce valid tracking)???? Honestly wondering what protections sellers have these days, think I'm going to stick to big box trade in at 50 cents on dollar.

[Valtiel]

4 minutes ago, jrg75 said:

Dumb question, why wouldn't PayPal reverse the refund once you prove the putter wasn't returned (e.g. buyer can't produce valid tracking)???? Honestly wondering what protections sellers have these days, think I'm going to stick to big box trade in at 50 cents on dollar.

I think there is a window of time that the seller has to respond and essentially "agree" to the dispute/return, and if they don't then PayPal considers it sort of "abandoned" in a way and will err on the side of the buyer and leave the non-responsive seller to deal with the consequences and/or potentially escalate. 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Buyer has a "Validating - Unconfirmed" account from 2021.  Big red flag for me, and not someone I would transact with.

[jrg75]

10 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I think there is a window of time that the seller has to respond and essentially "agree" to the dispute/return, and if they don't then PayPal considers it sort of "abandoned" in a way and will err on the side of the buyer and leave the non-responsive seller to deal with the consequences and/or potentially escalate. 

Thanks @Valtiel, I think PayPal (and eBay) has really done us all a disservice with their "buyer is always right" mentality.  It's too bad that we can't live in a world where there is at least some semblance of mutual respect in a private transaction.  For this case, whether putter was or was not dented doesn't matter, only honorable thing to do is return the putter after receiving a refund.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by jrg75

[lipw87]

this is probably the most scumbag thing i've seen on here.  hands down.

[jdcho]

IMO, no winners here and we lose as a community of golfers that like to B/S/T.  
 

The seller should have refunded when the buyer questioned the condition of the putter.  Instead, he tried to find a reason not to refund (by questioning the integrity of the buyer with a line of reasoning that was not required) and claiming that he didn’t have the money.  While I don’t want to question someone’s financial situation, not having $285 isn’t a reason to avoid refunding the buyer.  Borrow the money or find a way to refund.  Make the buyer whole again. Questioning the buyer about timeline of receipt and admitting to a lack of funds to refund seems suspect at best.  
 

Maybe the buyer is/was upset by the seller’s unwillingness to refund.  If you read the screenshots of their correspondence, the seller wasn’t all that gracious.  With that said, the buyer got his refund via PP dispute.  The buyer needs to return the putter (shipping fee can be split or paid by the buyer).  
 

As mostly a buyer on the B/S/T forum, I appreciate honest sellers and those that are responsive to messages/emails/texts.  The seller’s responses would have made me crazy mad but I wouldn’t keep the putter.  
 

Sorry, both the buyer and seller are in the wrong here.  
 

 

[golffeen007]

3 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I think there is a window of time that the seller has to respond and essentially "agree" to the dispute/return, and if they don't then PayPal considers it sort of "abandoned" in a way and will err on the side of the buyer and leave the non-responsive seller to deal with the consequences and/or potentially escalate. 

Unless the sellers email has changed from what PayPal has on file , they should have gotten multiple emails about what was going on. PayPal will not just take your money without letting know it’s about to happen unless you right the situation. 
 

BUT , if the buyer portrayed it as garbage now with the damage they provided and the PayPal rep doesn’t have the cognizance to understand it could easily be fixed , they may not require them to send it back and the buyer would be left with air. Seems like what the buyer is banking on.

He did say “look, im a good guy”. RED FLAG if you have to try and thwart your reputation to pull off a scam. 

[Celeras]

First things first: PayPal decided and the dispute says the seller didn't respond. That is a red flag and entitles the buyer to a refund, and nothing else (who is scamming who) really matters.

 

Nobody here can say how the putter was shipped or how it arrived, but everyone will agree that if you got a refund you should return the merchandise. Keeping it because you don't like how the seller handled the situation makes you a scumbag regardless of who was initially wronged.

[Valtiel]

1 minute ago, golffeen007 said:

Unless the sellers email has changed from what PayPal has on file , they should have gotten multiple emails about what was going on. PayPal will not just take your money without letting know it’s about to happen unless you right the situation. 
 

BUT , if the buyer portrayed it as garbage now with the damage they provided and the PayPal rep doesn’t have the cognizance to understand it could easily be fixed , they may not require them to send it back and the buyer would be left with air. Seems like what the buyer is banking on.

He did say “look, im a good guy”. RED FLAG if you have to try and thwart your reputation to pull off a scam. 

Agreed. Paypal will tend to fire off multiple reminder emails to respond to a dispute, normally with time limit reminders. Maybe the OP thought or hoped that if he didn't respond to them that it would go away, or he genuinely missed them for some reason. 

That's another thing i've run into with Paypal that sucks but unfortunately in inevitable. No human over there will be well versed in value/condition/damage details of every given item that comes across as a "damaged/item not as described" dispute and will end up normally defaulting to the buyer. The only time i've ever won one of these disputes as a seller was ages ago because I luckily had photographic evidence to very directly refute the specific damage claim. 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Seller should have refunded instead of telling the buyer to sell it to someone else.  Buyer should return the putter ASAP.

[golffeen007]

7 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Seller should have refunded instead of telling the buyer to sell it to someone else.  Buyer should return the putter ASAP.

Correct on both accounts. 

The silence from the buyer is defining at this point. With no real history here and failing to respond about returning the putter that is no longer theirs , It looks like the “good guy” buyer isn’t quite living up to his own rep. 
 

I PM’d the buyer earlier as an open minded individual and there’s been no response even after reading. 
 

Just a hunch , but he doesn’t own that putter anymore. 

[gripANDrip1983]

1 hour ago, jdcho said:

IMO, no winners here and we lose as a community of golfers that like to B/S/T.  
 

The seller should have refunded when the buyer questioned the condition of the putter.  Instead, he tried to find a reason not to refund (by questioning the integrity of the buyer with a line of reasoning that was not required) and claiming that he didn’t have the money.  While I don’t want to question someone’s financial situation, not having $285 isn’t a reason to avoid refunding the buyer.  Borrow the money or find a way to refund.  Make the buyer whole again. Questioning the buyer about timeline of receipt and admitting to a lack of funds to refund seems suspect at best.  
 

Maybe the buyer is/was upset by the seller’s unwillingness to refund.  If you read the screenshots of their correspondence, the seller wasn’t all that gracious.  With that said, the buyer got his refund via PP dispute.  The buyer needs to return the putter (shipping fee can be split or paid by the buyer).  
 

As mostly a buyer on the B/S/T forum, I appreciate honest sellers and those that are responsive to messages/emails/texts.  The seller’s responses would have made me crazy mad but I wouldn’t keep the putter.  
 

Sorry, both the buyer and seller are in the wrong here.  
 

 

This isn’t Amazon. Sellers have no obligation to return the product on BST. In a lot of cases I’ve seen  on BST, if a buyer doesn’t like what he bought, most guys will just repost the putter and move it on to the next wrxer. That’s what I thought I was dealing with. I figured he was just trying to take the easy road out and trying to return it. If I sell a putter, it’s because I’ve already had my eyes on something else in typical wrx style.The putter wasn’t damaged when I sent it out.  Hindsight is 20/20. Of course there could’ve been some things done different. The bottom line is, he got his money, now send me my “defective putter” back and let me decide what to do with it. I’m not trying to be snappy with you because I do appreciate your feedback.

Edited June 12, 2024 by gripANDrip1983

[gripANDrip1983]

2 hours ago, zip7111 said:

At least CALL PayPal and explain the situation.  They have been very helpful when I have called in the past.  I cant imagine it is standard protocol to put your account in the negative and not get your item back.

I’m gonna dig deeper and call tomorrow. All I could get today was robots.