What does this bowlers drill help with?

[CoreyW1369]

4 hours ago, KD1 said:

 

I'd think Dennis's version is version 2 of this one. I think it builds on what the tall guy talks about but emphasizes activating the arms and feeling shaft lean. Tall guy talks about firing the shoulders which would be death move for me.

 

maybe it wasn't in the twitter post that OP linked but in another post somewhere Dennis asked 'how low can you go?' The point there was get the trail leg really far back, squat down in the lead leg, force your self to figure out how to get a ton of shaft lean. The lower you squat into the lead leg the further forward you have to force your hands at address and impact... if you're doing it right.

Ya, RC’s drill is pretty tame in comparison. I haven’t really seen Dennis elaborate on the drill much but it seems to be more about speed than shaft lean.

[KD1]

On 6/26/2024 at 7:38 PM, Golf_Goof said:

I haven’t really seen Dennis elaborate on the drill much but it seems to be more about speed than shaft lean.

 

It's a big part of it, among lots of other things.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8hdkO_OC2T/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[RichieHunt]

On 6/26/2024 at 4:32 PM, airjammer said:

I agree with Dennis that vertical is hard to time. I’ve had several conversations with Steve Furlonger about it and he always said he’s never seen someone with vertical forces too early. Vertical forces are generally the braking force because as soon as the butt of the club gets pulled upwards the club starts to “release”. 
 

All Dennis is doing is primarily braking by the end range of motion of his hips instead of vertical force. In his videos his hips are still moving aggressively and generating some “x factor stretch” in transition. 
 

Moe Norman probably had the most bent lead knee in the history of people of played great golf and he was known for being the straightest. So for those people who don’t have great athleticism or have mobility issues finding a way to just manage with 2 of the 3 GRFs may be the optimal solution for better golf.
 

Not sure if it’s true anymore but it was once said that you only need one GRF above pga tour average to have potential for tour like speed and only professional long drive guys had all 3 GRF above tour average. 

I think it is obvious that Moe was a horizontal force player.  That's why his clubface was so wide open at p5.5 and he was still able to hit it dead straight.  If he was a vertical force or torque force player, he'd probably hit shanks.  There's more to Moe's swing that made him so good than that, but it's still an important part to note about his ground force and his 'matchups' to that ground force.

Charles Howell is another horizontal force player.  He doesn't have all of the matchups that Moe had and that's why he hits more steeply down on the ball while Moe was probably dead flat.  

Gary Woodland has low vertical force according to Dr. Scott Lynn.  But he still brakes the horizontal force a healthy amount and can hit it a mile (I can't remember if Gary uses torque or horizontal as his primary force).  Woodland was the first golfer that Dr. Lynn saw as a long hitter that didn't have strong vertical forces.

The player with the strongest vertical forces ever tested by Dr. Lynn is Morikawa.  Going into testing Morikawa, Dr. Lynn assumed that Morikawa would be a torque force golfer given his pelvic rotation in the downswing, but nope...strongest vertical force player he's tested.  But despite having the most vertical force, Morikawa's club speed is at 111 mph (current Tour average is about 116 mph).  According to Dr. Lynn the vertical force allows Morikawa to really lengthen the flat spot and that's why he's so deadly with his irons (although it can be a problem with shots from the rough because the grass is thicker).

GRF is important, but it's not the only way to gain speed.  Mac could demonstrate him getting great speed with little to no GRF.  Kelvin Miyahira and Lucas Wald have talked about this as well.  GRF is just part of the equation, it's not the entire kit and kaboodle.

My feeling is that most amateurs utilize the ground so inefficiently that any improvements in using the ground create so much improvement that people tend to go overboard in thinking that GRF is the be all, end all of quality golf.


RH

[airjammer]

7 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

I think it is obvious that Moe was a horizontal force player.  That's why his clubface was so wide open at p5.5 and he was still able to hit it dead straight.  If he was a vertical force or torque force player, he'd probably hit shanks.  There's more to Moe's swing that made him so good than that, but it's still an important part to note about his ground force and his 'matchups' to that ground force.

Charles Howell is another horizontal force player.  He doesn't have all of the matchups that Moe had and that's why he hits more steeply down on the ball while Moe was probably dead flat.  

Gary Woodland has low vertical force according to Dr. Scott Lynn.  But he still brakes the horizontal force a healthy amount and can hit it a mile (I can't remember if Gary uses torque or horizontal as his primary force).  Woodland was the first golfer that Dr. Lynn saw as a long hitter that didn't have strong vertical forces.

The player with the strongest vertical forces ever tested by Dr. Lynn is Morikawa.  Going into testing Morikawa, Dr. Lynn assumed that Morikawa would be a torque force golfer given his pelvic rotation in the downswing, but nope...strongest vertical force player he's tested.  But despite having the most vertical force, Morikawa's club speed is at 111 mph (current Tour average is about 116 mph).  According to Dr. Lynn the vertical force allows Morikawa to really lengthen the flat spot and that's why he's so deadly with his irons (although it can be a problem with shots from the rough because the grass is thicker).

GRF is important, but it's not the only way to gain speed.  Mac could demonstrate him getting great speed with little to no GRF.  Kelvin Miyahira and Lucas Wald have talked about this as well.  GRF is just part of the equation, it's not the entire kit and kaboodle.

My feeling is that most amateurs utilize the ground so inefficiently that any improvements in using the ground create so much improvement that people tend to go overboard in thinking that GRF is the be all, end all of quality golf.


RH

Imo like most things in golf these forces are a byproduct of “correct” movement patterns for some players just like when we first measured kinematic sequence. Some players have the perfect sequence but can’t break 90 and then there are others with messy sequences that break 70.