NCAA Roster Limits

[MahalNeneng]

10 hours ago, leezer99 said:

8 for boys. 9 for girls. 

We used these numbers (25 commit) during recruiting to parse our choices. Had about 20 offers from higher ranked teams to be in the 8-12 spot. Very tempting for the boy. 
ultimately we took boys current scoring average at 16 years old and compared against current roster. Didnt want to be 1, 2 or 3 was really trying to align with 4,5,6 (allowing for some growth) 

1 year out were looking at coming in around 2-3. Really dont like the idea of being best or worst on the squad. 

[golfdad1]

47 minutes ago, MahalNeneng said:

We used these numbers (25 commit) during recruiting to parse our choices. Had about 20 offers from higher ranked teams to be in the 8-12 spot. Very tempting for the boy. 
ultimately we took boys current scoring average at 16 years old and compared against current roster. Didnt want to be 1, 2 or 3 was really trying to align with 4,5,6 (allowing for some growth) 

1 year out were looking at coming in around 2-3. Really dont like the idea of being best or worst on the squad. 

That's smart analysis.

[LawGenius305]

13 hours ago, Happyguy said:

Have you heard those are the numbers for sure? Any time frame on implementation of those roster numbers? 

I have heard that for sure as well.

[Happyguy]

3 hours ago, MahalNeneng said:

I guess my thoughts on that are were the 918 actually capable of making it? 
when you you really drill in all we see is the initial commit the real question is how many commits finish at the school they started anyhow. Sooo many transfers when you look 2 years down the road. Yes the teams are then replacing thos 9-12 spots constantly but that s the cycle. If you dont get to like 7-8 you should probably keep a bag at the ready. 

Agreed. However, if the roster numbers are cut to a max of 8 or 9  in 2025 or 2026 most of those kids who made commitments to a school will not have a spot at that school. They will never have a chance to know IF they could make it or not. 
 

[mojomover]

Somewhat interesting read...

 

 

https://www.soccerwire.com/soccer-blog/analysis-major-changes-coming-to-college-soccer-amid-fallout-from-ncaa-lawsuit/

[jigsaw1011]

39 minutes ago, mojomover said:

Somewhat interesting read...

 

 

https://www.soccerwire.com/soccer-blog/analysis-major-changes-coming-to-college-soccer-amid-fallout-from-ncaa-lawsuit/

Read the article. It didn’t seem too optimistic about the future of non revenue producing sports. Ugh.

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

Read the article. It didn’t seem too optimistic about the future of non revenue producing sports. Ugh.

 

Asian Tour | Professional Golf Tour in Asia

 

You gotta be 17 though.

[Tugu]

4 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Asian Tour | Professional Golf Tour in Asia

 

You gotta be 17 though.

Whats the strength of field and CCA at the various locations?

[golfortennis]

On 7/11/2024 at 9:25 AM, leezer99 said:

 

So you're not a fan of ripping the band-aid off? 

 

What are your feelings on US colleges and universities paying for foreign players then? If a coach's job is to win, doesn't he owe it to himself and the university to recruit the best players? I mean, we are talking about people's jobs here. 

 

FWIW - I could see large donations being made by foreign governments and companies to 'recruit' certain foreign players to a US school if that's what would give them the best opportunity. 

 

This is one thing I have always wondered why  it gets so overlooked.  Here you have tax-advantaged athletic departments "hiring" foreign athletes in extremely large degrees in some sports, and for what purpose?  One could argue that having a foreign scientist on staff is similar, but that scientist's research could actually affect people's lives.  Athletics only affects those directly involved in them.  

 

Let's stipulate for the sake of argument that success at the Olympics is "important."  I do not subscribe to that theory, but we'll go with it.  The US College system is essentially the olympic development program for the US.  So why give that to other countries' as well?

[leezer99]

9 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

This is one thing I have always wondered why  it gets so overlooked.  Here you have tax-advantaged athletic departments "hiring" foreign athletes in extremely large degrees in some sports, and for what purpose?  One could argue that having a foreign scientist on staff is similar, but that scientist's research could actually affect people's lives.  Athletics only affects those directly involved in them.  

 

Let's stipulate for the sake of argument that success at the Olympics is "important."  I do not subscribe to that theory, but we'll go with it.  The US College system is essentially the olympic development program for the US.  So why give that to other countries' as well?

Why is a certain powehouse golf college out west hosting illegal recruiting events in China? 

[golfortennis]

6 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Why is a certain powehouse golf college out west hosting illegal recruiting events in China? 

 

Can those of US C what is happening?  Or should we not Stan For Dis?

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

Can those of US C what is happening?  Or should we not Stan For Dis?

 

AS U might be insinuating something you might be wrong. 

[leezer99]

Small update but worth reading.  Sources: NCAA to increase scholarships for sports, with football getting roster limit of 105 players - Yahoo Sports

 

Relevant to golf are the last few sentences: But not all programs can afford to add so many additional scholarships. Some administrators are in the process of “tiering” their sports by decreasing investment on certain programs and increasing investment in others. This includes staff and salary cuts as well as the reduction in scholarships from Olympic sports, especially those that generate little to no revenue.

[LawGenius305]

21 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Small update but worth reading.  Sources: NCAA to increase scholarships for sports, with football getting roster limit of 105 players - Yahoo Sports

 

Relevant to golf are the last few sentences: But not all programs can afford to add so many additional scholarships. Some administrators are in the process of “tiering” their sports by decreasing investment on certain programs and increasing investment in others. This includes staff and salary cuts as well as the reduction in scholarships from Olympic sports, especially those that generate little to no revenue.

It says this is for the Power Conferences. Right now, I would argue there are only 2 Power conferences being the SEC and B1G. They will be able to afford anything, even for terrible athletic schools like Rutgers, Maryland, Vandy because of the media money coming from Fox and ESPN. Many regard the ACC and B12 as power conferences, but the revenue they are pulling in isn't comparable to SEC/B1G money. This is why FSU/Clemson and other schools will be leaving the ACC for the B1G/SEC. To stay relevant at the top level in athletics a school has to be in the B1G/SEC.

 

Reading into this, this is setting college athletics up for being a P2 division and a G7 division made up of the non Power football schools that don't have the media dollars as does the B1G and SEC.  There is no way Wake, BC, Syracuse, Iowa State, UCF, Cincinnati and others will be able to afford that number of scholarships. The media deals for those conferences are shrinking.

[Jmulligan]

This is happening.  3 freshmen golfers just cut from Baylor after committed to a full ride and half way through first year.   In the meant time, two European players signed for 2025.  Of course this is after the seniors graduate.   Bottom line is that 2024 players are getting screwed.  Why not pass on new recruits and let your team attrite through graduation?   Screwing over these young mean hurts good.  The portal is f***** because every program is facing the same constraint.  Nowhere for these young men to go  

[golfdad1]

4 hours ago, Jmulligan said:

This is happening.  3 freshmen golfers just cut from Baylor after committed to a full ride and half way through first year.   In the meant time, two European players signed for 2025.  Of course this is after the seniors graduate.   Bottom line is that 2024 players are getting screwed.  Why not pass on new recruits and let your team attrite through graduation?   Screwing over these young mean hurts good.  The portal is f***** because every program is facing the same constraint.  Nowhere for these young men to go  

With 4.5 scholarships per team, I seriously doubt they were on full rides. Also, their 2 2025 recruits are American.

Edited November 13, 2024 by golfdad1

[leezer99]

5 hours ago, Jmulligan said:

This is happening.  3 freshmen golfers just cut from Baylor after committed to a full ride and half way through first year.   In the meant time, two European players signed for 2025.  Of course this is after the seniors graduate.   Bottom line is that 2024 players are getting screwed.  Why not pass on new recruits and let your team attrite through graduation?   Screwing over these young mean hurts good.  The portal is f***** because every program is facing the same constraint.  Nowhere for these young men to go  

They haven’t even finished the semester. Ugh. 

[golferdad8]

1 hour ago, golfdad1 said:

With 4.5 scholarships per team, I seriously doubt they were on full rides. Also, their 2 2025 recruits are American.

Baylor? Tell me this ain’t so - I thought Coach McGraw was one of the good guys & would honor his commitment to the recruits, and at least let them finish the year?!

[Golfquant]

11 hours ago, Jmulligan said:

This is happening.  3 freshmen golfers just cut from Baylor after committed to a full ride and half way through first year.   In the meant time, two European players signed for 2025.  Of course this is after the seniors graduate.   Bottom line is that 2024 players are getting screwed.  Why not pass on new recruits and let your team attrite through graduation?   Screwing over these young mean hurts good.  The portal is f***** because every program is facing the same constraint.  Nowhere for these young men to go  

this is extremely unfortunate and I feel for those young men

 

it looks like Baylor had 5 freshmen on the team?  

 

a team cannot have that much headcount concentrated in one grad year - especially with a limit of 9 total

 

cutting 2024's make sense - hopefully the coach had been communicating the possibility this might happen well in advance

 

it seems like poor planning on the coaches' part - they should have known better

 

or...maybe this was by design all along (I cannot imagine that the coaches assumed all 5 would stay on the team for all 4 years)?

Edited November 13, 2024 by Golfquant

[fusegolf2033]

7 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Baylor? Tell me this ain’t so - I thought Coach McGraw was one of the good guys & would honor his commitment to the recruits, and at least let them finish the year?!

Having gotten to know McGraw a little during our recruiting process, I’m a little surprised. But, I do know these conversations are taking place at many schools. Seems like most 2025’s are signing and current rosters are taking the hit.

Edited November 13, 2024 by fusegolf2033

[leezer99]

A little more clarity from Brentley in the article linked below but still a ton of unanswered questions. 

 

'Worst week of my coaching career': An unprecedented NCAA early signing period begins - NBC Sports

 

“There are going to be kids that sign next week and never step foot on campus,” predicted one Power-4 women’s coach.

 

“Was told an hour ago that I can only sign one kid, and I committed to two over a year ago,” one Power-4 women’s coach said. “Imagine making this phone call. Heartbreaking. The situation we have been put in unfortunately.”

 

 

[LawGenius305]

15 hours ago, Jmulligan said:

This is happening.  3 freshmen golfers just cut from Baylor after committed to a full ride and half way through first year.   In the meant time, two European players signed for 2025.  Of course this is after the seniors graduate.   Bottom line is that 2024 players are getting screwed.  Why not pass on new recruits and let your team attrite through graduation?   Screwing over these young mean hurts good.  The portal is f***** because every program is facing the same constraint.  Nowhere for these young men to go  

There is no way 3 freshman were receiving full rides and not contributing to the team. 

[TroyB123]

Anyone have any idea what the non-power 4 conferences are doing?   Are they mostly going with the revenue sharing model?    It sounds like it is a school by school decision.    Are the schools that aren't participating sticking with the old scholarship limit and no roster limit?  I asked a coach about this a week ago, and he had no idea what his school was going to do.

[golferdad8]

1 minute ago, LawGenius305 said:

There is no way 3 freshman were receiving full rides and not contributing to the team. 

Many strong academic kids are able to obtain near full rides for golf teams to catholic colleges based on non-athletic scholarships - think St Mary’s Moraga, Santa Clara, (perhaps Baylor?).  It could explain why these kids took the offers. If so, this could also explain the larger teams, until the recent mandatory cuts. That said, most of these kids are not playing so the writing should have been on the wall.

[LawGenius305]

6 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

Many strong academic kids are able to obtain near full rides for golf teams to catholic colleges based on non-athletic scholarships - think St Mary’s Moraga, Santa Clara, (perhaps Baylor?).  It could explain why these kids took the offers. If so, this could also explain the larger teams, until the recent mandatory cuts. That said, most of these kids are not playing so the writing should have been on the wall.

I consider a full ride in terms of athletics as receiving 100% athletic money. That isn't happening. 

[wegobomber31]

18 hours ago, Jmulligan said:

This is happening.  3 freshmen golfers just cut from Baylor after committed to a full ride and half way through first year.   In the meant time, two European players signed for 2025.  Of course this is after the seniors graduate.   Bottom line is that 2024 players are getting screwed.  Why not pass on new recruits and let your team attrite through graduation?   Screwing over these young mean hurts good.  The portal is f***** because every program is facing the same constraint.  Nowhere for these young men to go  

Seems to be a lot of non-factual information in this post which isn’t helpful. Baylor’s two 2025’s are both from Texas and just signed. And supposedly three freshman who aren’t playing are taking up 3 of the team’s 4.5 scholarships and the other 7 guys, many of whom are playing, are splitting the other 1.5 scholarships?

[svlido]

Hopefully this will push kids away from the big programs.  I played at a powerhouse school and I wish I would've gone elsewhere.  I wanted to play and prepare to try to make it on TV so couldn't have cared less about the team winning a national championship anyway.  I actually went where I went because the coach at the school I wanted to go to had a hard rule of freshman don't play, so I shouldn't have based my decision on wanting to go to a big school everybody would know.

 

The NCAA is hopeless, but the thing I love about golf is if you're good enough you can still be the last one standing no matter what D1 school you go to.  

[Golfquant]

so...which other schools can we expect to do what Baylor just did in the coming weeks/months?

[Sixcat]

A lot of D1 programs have been preparing for this for over a year. Maybe not the giants of college golf but at least the reasonable schools. I know one A10 school has 9 on the current roster. One is a graduate student and will exhaust his eligibility in May. They have a transfer student from Florida already on campus that will be taking his place next fall. The coach was telling me that most of the A10 schools had a plan in place going back a year or more.

[LawGenius305]

3 hours ago, svlido said:

Hopefully this will push kids away from the big programs.  I played at a powerhouse school and I wish I would've gone elsewhere.  I wanted to play and prepare to try to make it on TV so couldn't have cared less about the team winning a national championship anyway.  I actually went where I went because the coach at the school I wanted to go to had a hard rule of freshman don't play, so I shouldn't have based my decision on wanting to go to a big school everybody would know.

 

The NCAA is hopeless, but the thing I love about golf is if you're good enough you can still be the last one standing no matter what D1 school you go to.  

100%

 

I have heard this story over and over.