Moderation of Instruction and Academy Forum

[SheriffBooth]

This is sort of an open letter to the Members that enjoy reading and participating in the Instruction and Academy Forum, how we moderate things, and how things need to be corrected in the near term.

 

In general, we view this section as the Wild West portion of the Forums.  By its nature, there are many different philosophies and thoughts regarding the best ways to hit a golf ball, and the best ways for others to learn how to hit a golf ball.  So we are generally pretty careful and "moderate" in our moderation of this section so that the many differing viewpoints can be discussed and explored.

 

But, from time to time, things get a little too far off course here.  Such is the case lately.  Threads are being dominated by just a few members.  Threads quickly veer off topic and include personal bickering back and forth.  Threads are being reported over and over and over again.

 

We rely on the Members here to police themselves as best as possible, and to conduct themselves within the Forum rules.  Please consider this fair warning that if things do not correct themselves in this Forum quickly, then temporary and longer term posting suspensions will be our only available recourse.  We will not be following our normal course of multiple and exhaustive warnings to Members; this post is the one and only warning and posting privileges will be suspended without further notice.

 

Thanks very much for your help in keeping GolfWRX the awesome place that it is!

[PostandGhost]

Are we talking about temporary and longer term suspensions for the sub forum or for the entire site?  Asking for a friend...

[SheriffBooth]

2 minutes ago, PostandGhost said:

Are we talking about temporary and longer term suspensions for the sub forum or for the entire site?  Asking for a friend...

 

That will depend on the circumstances and the Member involved.  Repeat offenders will lose privileges site wide, others might just be the Instruction forum.

[mshills]

The “running the site” problem is real. Thanks for addressing. 

[Llortamaisey]

I suppose it was only a matter of time. 

[Scottbox]

[Ty_Webb]

Can we have a vote on which members are the antagonists and which the protagonists in a given thread that gets argumentative? There are a few posters who post complete gibberish either trolling or trying to sound clever (hard to tell which I think) and then others who are valuable members of the forum and might actually be teaching pros who have a lot to add. Frequently it's those two groups who wind up at loggerheads with each other and I don't think we want to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. Personally I think it's pretty clear who is who in those conversations, but I know that the mods have a full-time job just keeping up with everything, so they may not know.

[mshills]

10 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Can we have a vote on which members are the antagonists and which the protagonists in a given thread that gets argumentative? There are a few posters who post complete gibberish either trolling or trying to sound clever (hard to tell which I think) and then others who are valuable members of the forum and might actually be teaching pros who have a lot to add. Frequently it's those two groups who wind up at loggerheads with each other and I don't think we want to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. Personally I think it's pretty clear who is who in those conversations, but I know that the mods have a full-time job just keeping up with everything, so they may not know.

Amen!!! If the trolls and fake-newsers drive off the teaching pros who are sharing knowledge free of charge…..then we’ll be left with the Hogans Heroes forum. 😕

[SheriffBooth]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

Can we have a vote on which members are the antagonists and which the protagonists in a given thread that gets argumentative? There are a few posters who post complete gibberish either trolling or trying to sound clever (hard to tell which I think) and then others who are valuable members of the forum and might actually be teaching pros who have a lot to add. Frequently it's those two groups who wind up at loggerheads with each other and I don't think we want to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. Personally I think it's pretty clear who is who in those conversations, but I know that the mods have a full-time job just keeping up with everything, so they may not know.

 

So, we still have the Reporting system, and we still need our Members to Report conduct that is out of bounds.  We cannot have an open Thunderdome/Lord of the Flies system where Instruction and Academy users single each other out for vigilante justice.

 

But yes, we are well aware of what's going on in here.

[absoludicrous]

Is there an ability within the forum software to view source IP address? I think having the ability to block trolls posting under alter egos/aliases would help reduce some of the noise. 

[SNIPERBBB]

33 minutes ago, absoludicrous said:

Is there an ability within the forum software to view source IP address? I think having the ability to block trolls posting under alter egos/aliases would help reduce some of the noise. 

unfortunately IP addresses dont do much these days, especially with the prevalence of VPNs and cellphones. only catches the stupid trolls or bots. I used to be a game admin in what feels like centuries ago now and we banned an entire countries IP address(country only had one IP so it was easy) for multi-aliasing and they still got around it.

[golferdude54]

So anyone who's not Monte, iacas, or Valtiel is just gonna have a target on their back? Doesn't seem very fair.

 

I know I'm probably one of the usual suspects but I just get bored when it's too dark to golf. I enjoy posting on here because it's fun to discuss with other people who also love golf enough to do the same thing when it's too dark for them as well.

[absoludicrous]

4 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

unfortunately IP addresses dont do much these days, especially with the prevalence of VPNs and cellphones. only catches the stupid trolls or bots. I used to be a game admin in what feels like centuries ago now and we banned an entire countries IP address(country only had one IP so it was easy) for multi-aliasing and they still got around it.

Yes, I understand that there are ways around it if one were persistent enough. I don’t know how many people out there find enjoyment trolling golf forums so much where they need to use a vpn to hide their IP. But I suppose there are some out there. 
 

My ignore list is pretty full, so this doesn’t bother me that much. But I am fairly confident that with a little research, an admin could figure out who these people are and at least quiet it down, even if temporarily. 
 

If it doesn’t make sense to spend the limited amount of time on that, so be it. Just trying to find ways to make this place more enjoyable. 

[Valtiel]

13 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

So anyone who's not Monte, iacas, or Valtiel is just gonna have a target on their back? Doesn't seem very fair.

 

I know I'm probably one of the usual suspects but I just get bored when it's too dark to golf. I enjoy posting on here because it's fun to discuss with other people who also love golf enough to do the same thing when it's too dark for them as well.

FWIW I don't think that was what the message intended, and I personally didn't immediately think "yeah he's one of those guys". I had to look at your post history here to even remember that you said a few snarky things here and there. I can't speak for administration, but that was my reaction anyway. If you haven't been contacted by administration then it's probably safe to say there aren't any crosshairs on you. 

As far as the general administrative warning goes, heard. I've been on the admin side of things like this in the past and I get it's like wrangling cats a lot of the time. I threw a jab last week that I regretted afterwards and the current hot topics are a bit borderline as it is, so at least for my part i'm aware of that and will do my best to keep my side of the street clean, if that has any value. I am curious however about the reports as i've seen it mentioned several times that certain things get moderated/shut down due to an excessive number of them. I hope this isn't any kind of report spamming coming from a smaller number of users, either for griefing or revenge purposes. If anyone is using it as a tattle-tale tool, please consider not if it's just a heated debate about something.

For anyone else reading/wondering, I was coincidentally thinking about this earlier today before I saw this thread. I've posted a ton of stuff over the last several years, might have been off base a few times, definitely missed some things, but i've genuinely always sought to help/educate/encourage because it's interesting to me, I know how frustrating it is for those that are struggling, and I know how good it feels to overcome those struggles. In all those exchanges i've never once gotten a sour message from anyone, member or administration (thankfully!), and i've actually gotten some really heartwarming notes from folks that don't even want anything but to just say they see the effort and thinks it's a really cool thing. That stuff is the best. I bring that up not to brag, but to offer some thoughts as someone that has gotten way in the weeds with folks several times and never been "bitten" so to speak, because it would be a shame if folks got skittish about posting.

1) Be curious. Every thread i've ever opened i'm always looking for something. Whether its a swing to check out and try to spot things in, a person/people whose ideas i'm interested to read, or an area I don't understand as well as i'd like, i'm always trying to learn something new. I called out @Nels55 and @virtuoso in the past for posting some material and phrasing a couple things in certain ways that made a few things click in ways I was struggling to pin down. That lead directly to the 190mph thread I posted as it sort of "unlocked" something for me and that is super cool. 
2) Challenge your own ideas. Doubt yourself and what you think you know if you're being challenged, even if indirectly via an idea you hold being debated by others. If you don't look back on what you thought you knew a year ago and cringe a little bit then you aren't doing it right. The golf swing is one of those pursuits that never has a finish line, you're just seeking to gain enough altitude so you can see the whole picture. And with the picture always changing with new information, if you aren't climbing then you're falling. 
3) Remember this is the internet. Even the most humble of us still has slightly bigger balls behind a keyboard so it's really easy to forget how you would *actually* talk to someone in real life. Be nice, and if you have to be mean, at least do it in a fun way. 😅

[SheriffBooth]

17 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

So anyone who's not Monte, iacas, or Valtiel is just gonna have a target on their back? Doesn't seem very fair.

 

 

 

Of course not.  I'm not sure how that reaction could be your takeaway from the original post.  I've been doing this a very long time now and can assure you that the moderation team is agnostic and also very patient when it comes to Rules enforcement.

[SheriffBooth]

13 hours ago, absoludicrous said:

Yes, I understand that there are ways around it if one were persistent enough. I don’t know how many people out there find enjoyment trolling golf forums so much where they need to use a vpn to hide their IP. But I suppose there are some out there. 
 

 

 

You would be surprised.

[absoludicrous]

56 minutes ago, SheriffBooth said:

 

You would be surprised.

Understood. I obviously have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and didn’t know people were going through such efforts to get people riled up.  its good to know and post for others who may have had the same thought or question. 
 

 

[PostandGhost]

Remember in school when all the kids were separated?  You had some kids in honors class, some were in regular class, and the others were in the slow class.  It seems like the problem is that they got everyone in here together and we are supposed to be separated.  

[jonsnow]

1 hour ago, PostandGhost said:

Remember in school when all the kids were separated?  You had some kids in honors class, some were in regular class, and the others were in the slow class.  It seems like the problem is that they got everyone in here together and we are supposed to be separated.  

I volunteer for the slow class since I'd be placed there anyway. My HS basketball coach said, "Snow, you have deceptive speed. You're slow, but you're slower than you look."

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by jonsnow

[bortass]

One nice feature of another forum I lurk on that is full of trolls is the handy ignore feature. It blocks that users posts from being displayed to you. All you get is a placeholder that shows a blocked person posted something. No idea if this forum software has that feature or not. 

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, bortass said:

One nice feature of another forum I lurk on that is full of trolls is the handy ignore feature. It blocks that users posts from being displayed to you. All you get is a placeholder that shows a blocked person posted something. No idea if this forum software has that feature or not. 

 

It does. — https://forums.golfwrx.com/ignore/

 

You can ignore the posts, messages, signatures, and/or mentions from other users.

Edited July 24, 2024 by iacas

[golferdude54]

16 hours ago, SheriffBooth said:

 

Of course not.  I'm not sure how that reaction could be your takeaway from the original post.  I've been doing this a very long time now and can assure you that the moderation team is agnostic and also very patient when it comes to Rules enforcement.

 

I apologize for the assumption, I didn't realize how cool you guys were with making sure this forum is open to anyone who wants to contribute positively. Given your username and profile picture, I was expecting more of a Wyatt Earp against the cowboys response from Tombstone!

 

"From now on I see a white belt, I ban the golfer wearing it. So run you golfer. And tell the other golfers the law is coming. You tell 'em I'm coming! And Hell's Bunker coming with me you hear! Hell's Bunker coming with me!"

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, golferdude54 said:

 

I apologize for the assumption, I didn't realize how cool you guys were with making sure this forum is open to anyone who wants to contribute positively. Given your username and profile picture, I was expecting more of a Wyatt Earp against the cowboys response from Tombstone!

 

"From now on I see a white belt, I ban the golfer wearing it. So run you golfer. And tell the other golfers the law is coming. You tell 'em I'm coming! And Hell's Bunker coming with me you hear! Hell's Bunker coming with me!"

[tm3]

On 7/23/2024 at 4:21 PM, golferdude54 said:

So anyone who's not Monte, iacas, or Valtiel is just gonna have a target on their back? Doesn't seem very fair.

 

 

My take is that difference of opinion will be tolerated as long as both sides treat each other respectfully and politely.  At least, I hope that is what the message is.

 

Pros, "teachers," and "experts" are just as capable of attitude and snark as the duffers.

[CoreyW1369]

30 minutes ago, tm3 said:

My take is that difference of opinion will be tolerated as long as both sides treat each other respectfully and politely.  At least, I hope that is what the message is.

 

Pros, "teachers," and "experts" are just as capable of attitude and snark as the duffers.

It’s simple really. Respond to the content of the post and not the person who posted it. 

[jonsnow]

6 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

[SheriffBooth]

50 minutes ago, tm3 said:

My take is that difference of opinion will be tolerated as long as both sides treat each other respectfully and politely.  At least, I hope that is what the message is.

 

Pros, "teachers," and "experts" are just as capable of attitude and snark as the duffers.

 

13 minutes ago, Golf_Goof said:

It’s simple really. Respond to the content of the post and not the person who posted it. 

 

You guys are hitting the nail on the head.

 

Other big issue lately is veering the thread way off topic.

 

If we can clean up the personal back and forth and the off topic posting, I think everything will be hunky-dory.

[jonsnow]

In other words, this:

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, tm3 said:

My take is that difference of opinion will be tolerated as long as both sides treat each other respectfully and politely.  At least, I hope that is what the message is.

 

Pros, "teachers," and "experts" are just as capable of attitude and snark as the duffers.

 

I don't disagree with this point, but I do think it's worth looking at it from a coach's perspective. I think they are here because they want to impart some of their wisdom (and sure - they probably help get their brand out there some in the process, but they're still giving this stuff up for free) and when someone posts something that is objectively wrong or misguided or misleading, they, by their nature of wanting to educate, will point out why. Once they get into things, it gets difficult to just leave it because leaving it might be taken by some third party readers as a concession. That's not a good state of affairs, so they keep going. Then they get gish galloped and then they get frustrated and it shows. The other person (who remember is completely wrong) can sound like they're being reasonable, but they're really not. They're pushing some kind of falsehood. So the person in the discussion who is right comes across as the unreasonable one. And, as you say, they are just as capable of attitude and snark. 

 

It's also important to remember that not all opinions are equal. Someone who has spent 20+ years on a lesson tee testing theories and finding solutions should have more weight behind their opinion than some dude who got a lesson and found it worked. Or someone who tried something out and it worked for them. These are not equal positions and they shouldn't be treated as such. And we should be looking at who is lighting the fire, not who is on fire. JMO

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

I don't disagree with this point, but I do think it's worth looking at it from a coach's perspective. I think they are here because they want to impart some of their wisdom (and sure - they probably help get their brand out there some in the process, but they're still giving this stuff up for free) and when someone posts something that is objectively wrong or misguided or misleading, they, by their nature of wanting to educate, will point out why. Once they get into things, it gets difficult to just leave it because leaving it might be taken by some third party readers as a concession. That's not a good state of affairs, so they keep going. Then they get gish galloped and then they get frustrated and it shows. The other person (who remember is completely wrong) can sound like they're being reasonable, but they're really not. They're pushing some kind of falsehood. So the person in the discussion who is right comes across as the unreasonable one. And, as you say, they are just as capable of attitude and snark. 

 

It's also important to remember that not all opinions are equal. Someone who has spent 20+ years on a lesson tee testing theories and finding solutions should have more weight behind their opinion than some dude who got a lesson and found it worked. Or someone who tried something out and it worked for them. These are not equal positions and they shouldn't be treated as such. And we should be looking at who is lighting the fire, not who is on fire. JMO

Couldn't disagree more here. There are a few known teachers who post good stuff but not everyone knows who's a certified pro who does lessons constantly and who's not. 

 

My example here will be @MonteScheinblum. Monte will disagree with content and usually leave it at that. There are other(s?) who take a disagreement personally and then a thread gets ruined with half page long diatribes. Then responses, then more diatribes. Someone posting wrong info can be disagreed with but then it needs to be left at that. One poster cannot control another poster by brow beating them in a thread with constant replies..."protecting the truth of being right". 

 

The instruction forum is about free advice. Not all of that advice is good. Not all of it will apply. Ultimately, someone looking for advice has to go try stuff and see what works...or get off the free advice and pay for "better" advice. 

 

I've had a thread ruined by someone who disagreed with the perspective of using the line on the ball...all because his preference was that it wasn't useful. So instead of posting his own thread on "why using the line is worthless" he brow beat me and anyone else who were advocating for using the line in a thread about using the line. 

 

That's the stuff that needs to stop. Disagree once and move on. Don't disagree and then try to control the narrative.