Moderation of Instruction and Academy Forum

[byoung14]

34 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Couldn't disagree more here. There are a few known teachers who post good stuff but not everyone knows who's a certified pro who does lessons constantly and who's not. 

 

My example here will be @MonteScheinblum. Monte will disagree with content and usually leave it at that. There are other(s?) who take a disagreement personally and then a thread gets ruined with half page long diatribes. Then responses, then more diatribes. Someone posting wrong info can be disagreed with but then it needs to be left at that. One poster cannot control another poster by brow beating them in a thread with constant replies..."protecting the truth of being right". 

 

The instruction forum is about free advice. Not all of that advice is good. Not all of it will apply. Ultimately, someone looking for advice has to go try stuff and see what works...or get off the free advice and pay for "better" advice. 

 

I've had a thread ruined by someone who disagreed with the perspective of using the line on the ball...all because his preference was that it wasn't useful. So instead of posting his own thread on "why using the line is worthless" he brow beat me and anyone else who were advocating for using the line in a thread about using the line. 

 

That's the stuff that needs to stop. Disagree once and move on. Don't disagree and then try to control the narrative. 

I agree, it’s always the people who try to derail threads because they want to  be the center of attention because they want their words to hold the most weight and can’t agree to disagree with others who hold a different opinion.

[SNIPERBBB]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLlv_aZjHXc

[jonsnow]

2 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLlv_aZjHXc

"I paid you already!"

 

"No you didn't."

 

"You're arguing so I must have paid you."

 

"Not necessarily. I could be arguing on my own time."

 

I love Monte Python!

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, jonsnow said:

"I paid you already!"

 

"No you didn't."

 

"You're arguing so I must have paid you."

 

"Not necessarily. I could be arguing on my own time."

 

I love Monte Python!

 

 

Basically that entire skit is how most forum posts goes. Some people want to have legitimate arguments/debates, some just want to call names, some just say you're wrong yo everything, some just want to knock you in the head and eventually the police come in.

[Lord Helmet]

5 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

I don't disagree with this point, but I do think it's worth looking at it from a coach's perspective. I think they are here because they want to impart some of their wisdom (and sure - they probably help get their brand out there some in the process, but they're still giving this stuff up for free) and when someone posts something that is objectively wrong or misguided or misleading, they, by their nature of wanting to educate, will point out why. Once they get into things, it gets difficult to just leave it because leaving it might be taken by some third party readers as a concession. That's not a good state of affairs, so they keep going. Then they get gish galloped and then they get frustrated and it shows. The other person (who remember is completely wrong) can sound like they're being reasonable, but they're really not. They're pushing some kind of falsehood. So the person in the discussion who is right comes across as the unreasonable one. And, as you say, they are just as capable of attitude and snark. 

 

It's also important to remember that not all opinions are equal. Someone who has spent 20+ years on a lesson tee testing theories and finding solutions should have more weight behind their opinion than some dude who got a lesson and found it worked. Or someone who tried something out and it worked for them. These are not equal positions and they shouldn't be treated as such. And we should be looking at who is lighting the fire, not who is on fire. JMO

 

Mad respect for the use of gish gallopped in here.

[GungHoGolf]

23 minutes ago, Lord Helmet said:

 

Mad respect for the use of gish gallopped in here.

I had to look it up. So apt for certain posters here:

 

During a Gish gallop, in a short space of time the galloper confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies that makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of the debate.^[2] Each point raised by the Gish galloper takes considerably more time to refute or to fact-check than the amount of time taken to state each one in the series. This technique is known online as Brandolini's law^[3] and frequently is referred to as "the bullxxxx asymmetry principle". That element of the technique also is referred to as spewing a firehose of falsehoods.

[GungHoGolf]

1 hour ago, GungHoGolf said:

I had to look it up. So apt for certain posters here:

 

During a Gish gallop, in a short space of time the galloper confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies that makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of the debate.^[2] Each point raised by the Gish galloper takes considerably more time to refute or to fact-check than the amount of time taken to state each one in the series. This technique is known online as Brandolini's law^[3] and frequently is referred to as "the bullxxxx asymmetry principle". That element of the technique also is referred to as spewing a firehose of falsehoods.

Had to look up Brandolini’s Law as well:

 

Brandolini's law, also known as the bullxxxx asymmetry principle, is an internet adage coined in 2013 by Alberto Brandolini, an Italian programmer, that emphasizes the effort of debunking misinformation, in comparison to the relative ease of creating it in the first place. The law states:

The amount of energy needed to refute bullxxxx is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

The rise of easy popularization of ideas through the internet has greatly increased the relevant examples, but the asymmetry principle itself has long been recognized.

Edited July 25, 2024 by GungHoGolf

[Nels55]

The easiest way to learn the answer to a question is to post the wrong the answer on the internet.  I have known a few folks to do that on golf forums...

[GungHoGolf]

[GolfTurkey]

This is always a tough one and moderating has to be one of the most thankless tasks because there will always be some people unhappy that it's too strict, not strict enough etc.

 

As for instructors replying to garbase, that's also a tough one. It can look like an implicit surrender to the casual / not completely instruction nerded-out observer if the instructor keeps quiet when sprayed with the Dunning-Kruger Brandolini firehose but responding to every point goes down the multi-page rabbit hole ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tm3]

16 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

Had to look up Brandolini’s Law as well:

 

Brandolini's law, also known as the bullxxxx asymmetry principle, is an internet adage coined in 2013 by Alberto Brandolini, an Italian programmer, that emphasizes the effort of debunking misinformation, in comparison to the relative ease of creating it in the first place. The law states:

The amount of energy needed to refute bullxxxx is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

The rise of easy popularization of ideas through the internet has greatly increased the relevant examples, but the asymmetry principle itself has long been recognized.

Good one!  I think that Mark Twain hit close to the mark, long before the www:

 

 "It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled" -- Mark Twain

[Forged4ever]

On 7/25/2024 at 1:55 AM, golferdude54 said:

 

I apologize for the assumption, I didn't realize how cool you guys were with making sure this forum is open to anyone who wants to contribute positively. 

They're extremely cool & tolerant, especially the Sheriff🤠, as my still bein here is a testament to that🤪

 

As I've stated on more than one occasion, it's very very easy to play man while one hides behind a keyboard, fake UN & a fictitious avatar. When you're tempted to get personal or go gutter, just visualize sitting around a table at the 19th with a bunch of us, belly to belly.

 

I refuse to speak for anyone else though there's absolutely nothing that I find more disheartening than an anonymous fictional fake supposed "man" insulting me over the internet, then the icing on the cake is that he's a mid/high cap golfer for chrissakes😂😂  

 

A GOLFER🏌🏻!!!

 

Seriously, when did golfers become toughies😂😂???

 

And crappy golfers at that, lol.

 

@Ty_Webb made a great point regarding not all opinions are equal. My question is why is it always the idiots with their uneducated misguided moronic opinions that get the nastiest and go gutter the quickest when guys point out a counter opinion with class & decorum???

 

You Guys & Gals are the Best, the Sheriff🤠 is spot on, fair almost to a fault, and if you cannot act like a reasonable adult male(whenever we're discussing idiots on this board, it's totally a guy thing), then just find another forum. It's very easy!!

 

Me, I've cut way back on using asterisks in place of letters in swear words🤪.

 

The Sheriff🤠 was very kind, professional and tolerant in his handling of the situation. 

 

Besides, since my strokes, I can barely grip and swing a club, so I now suck as bad as most of you, and I'm not bitter, lol😂😂. That  may be due to the fact that I've got two lifetimes+ of great memories and rounds to fall back on & visualize, so I consider myself lucky to still be around and in this community. 

 

So, when ya wanna get personal, become obnoxiously adversarial or go gutter, just take a deep breath, silently count to 10 to yourself and exit the thread BEFORE ya type, post or hit "submit reply."

 

It is that easy🤙

 

Thanks for tolerating me & some of my tirades😊

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

RP

Edited July 29, 2024 by Forged4ever

[jonsnow]

9 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

They're extremely cool & tolerant, especially the Sheriff🤠, as my still bein here is a testament to that🤪

 

As I've stated on more than one occasion, it's very very easy to play man while one hides behind a keyboard, fake UN & a fictitious avatar. When you're tempted to get personal or go gutter, just visualize sitting around a table at the 19th with a bunch of us, belly to belly.

 

I refuse to speak for anyone else though there's absolutely nothing that I find more disheartening than an anonymous fictional fake supposed "man" insulting me over the internet, then the icing on the cake is that he's a mid/high cap golfer for chrissakes😂😂  

 

A GOLFER🏌🏻!!!

 

Seriously, when did golfers become toughies😂😂???

 

And crappy golfers at that, lol.

 

@Ty_Webb made a great point regarding not all opinions are equal. My question is why is it always the idiots with their uneducated misguided moronic opinions that get the nastiest and go gutter the quickest when guys point out a counter opinion with class & decorum???

 

You Guys & Gals are the Best, the Sheriff🤠 is spot on, fair almost to a fault, and if you cannot act like a reasonable adult male(whenever we're discussing idiots on this board, it's totally a guy thing), then just find another forum. It's very easy!!

 

Me, I've cut way back on using asterisks in place of letters in swear words🤪.

 

The Sheriff🤠 was very kind, professional and tolerant in his handling of the situation. 

 

Besides, since my strokes, I can barely grip and swing a club, so I now suck as bad as most of you, and I'm not bitter, lol😂😂. That  may be due to the fact that I've got two lifetimes+ of great memories and rounds to fall back on & visualize, so I consider myself lucky to still be around and in this community. 

 

So, when ya wanna get personal, become obnoxiously adversarial or go gutter, just take a deep breath, silently count to 10 to yourself and exit the thread BEFORE ya type, post or hit "submit reply."

 

It is that easy🤙

 

Thanks for tolerating me & some of my tirades😊

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

RP

Don't know when it started but pretty sure it ended November 17, 1973 when this guy died:

[jonsnow]

I can't help but wonder what Lloyd Mangrum would have thought of Koepka's tough guy persona...

Edited July 29, 2024 by jonsnow

[golfortennis]

13 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

They're extremely cool & tolerant, especially the Sheriff🤠, as my still bein here is a testament to that🤪

 

As I've stated on more than one occasion, it's very very easy to play man while one hides behind a keyboard, fake UN & a fictitious avatar. When you're tempted to get personal or go gutter, just visualize sitting around a table at the 19th with a bunch of us, belly to belly.

 

I refuse to speak for anyone else though there's absolutely nothing that I find more disheartening than an anonymous fictional fake supposed "man" insulting me over the internet, then the icing on the cake is that he's a mid/high cap golfer for chrissakes😂😂  

 

A GOLFER🏌🏻!!!

 

Seriously, when did golfers become toughies😂😂???

 

And crappy golfers at that, lol.

 

@Ty_Webb made a great point regarding not all opinions are equal. My question is why is it always the idiots with their uneducated misguided moronic opinions that get the nastiest and go gutter the quickest when guys point out a counter opinion with class & decorum???

 

You Guys & Gals are the Best, the Sheriff🤠 is spot on, fair almost to a fault, and if you cannot act like a reasonable adult male(whenever we're discussing idiots on this board, it's totally a guy thing), then just find another forum. It's very easy!!

 

Me, I've cut way back on using asterisks in place of letters in swear words🤪.

 

The Sheriff🤠 was very kind, professional and tolerant in his handling of the situation. 

 

Besides, since my strokes, I can barely grip and swing a club, so I now suck as bad as most of you, and I'm not bitter, lol😂😂. That  may be due to the fact that I've got two lifetimes+ of great memories and rounds to fall back on & visualize, so I consider myself lucky to still be around and in this community. 

 

So, when ya wanna get personal, become obnoxiously adversarial or go gutter, just take a deep breath, silently count to 10 to yourself and exit the thread BEFORE ya type, post or hit "submit reply."

 

It is that easy🤙

 

Thanks for tolerating me & some of my tirades😊

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

RP

 

When you can't attack the message you attack the messenger.  Classic deflection technique.

[Forged4ever]

7 hours ago, jonsnow said:

Don't know when it started but pretty sure it ended November 17, 1973 when this guy died:

hahahaha, Loyd Mangrum was the friggin BEST!! I did a thread on him in the Tour section(link below) and though I never got to meet him, as you probably know, he was one of Sam's closest friends on Tour, and Sam's stories(and Pete's) were priceless, especially his Hogan stories, hahaha.

Besides, Brooksy's a boy, Lloyd was a Man

 

My GOAT hogan comment was when a reporter in the locker room(back in the day, privileged media/reporters were allowed locker room status) said loud enough for many to hear that Hogan was "larger than life." From a few isles away(Mangrum let it be known that he did not want to be in the same isle as Hogan, EVER), a gravely voice chirped loud enough for many to hear, that "5'9" is still 5'9", 😂😂. Sam, who usually lockered next to Loyd, said that he rolled when he heard that and he really cracked up every time that he retold that story. 

 

For those not familiar or who did not peruse my thread, while Hogan was Playing 💩's 'n giggles golf with generals stateside, Lloyd was doing his service as part of Patton's Third Army, fighting at both Normandy & the Battle of the Bulge, winning a Silver Star at each battle along with a bronze star in each theatre, plus two purple hearts, which he was embarrassed to have won and refused to wear. Sam basically did the same thing as Hogan during his service, Playin with and givin lessons to the generals around the U.S., though Lloyd loved Sam and never got on him about it, however he took myriad shots at Hogan for his stateside service. 

 

@jonsnow was spot on regarding Lloyd Mangrum bein the Real Deal as his US Open Victory was one for the ages. He had movie star looks, a personality to match as Ladies loved him and the guys wanted to be him, he was a HoF Player and he could and did use his 5i with equal aplomb both in the fairways  and in various bars. Your choice, lolol😉

 

Oh yeh, I almost forgot, Lloyd early on supplemented his income as a movie double for Clark Gable, lol.

 

WTF🤪?!?!?

 

I hope that your recovery has gone well Jon, and regarding swing speed, don't worry bout that Brotha, as @RichieHunt stated, work on Tempo, and the speed will follow, at least as far as your present physical condition will allow. Richie was spot on with John Novosel's Tour Tempo. Aside from bein a superb program, He's a Class act, as good as you'll find and he'll take the time to exchange with you, be it by email, tele or text.

 

Apologies about the derailment in a thread about derailments😂🤪😂

 

Hey, they let me stay 'n Play, warts and all🤪

 

All the Best My Friends👊

RP

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2024 by Forged4ever

[Nels55]

31 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

From a few isles away(Mangrum let it be known that he did not want to be in the same isle as Hogan, EVER), a gravely voice chirped loud enough for many to hear, that "5'9" is still 5'9", 😂😂. Sam, who usually lockered next to Loyd, said that he rolled when he heard that and he really cracked up every time that he retold that story. 

Lloyd Mangrum, is a great name.  Guys who came up in the 30s were tough as nails.  LOL they thought Nicklaus and Palmer's generation were soft, I can't imagine what they would think of todays pros.  Anyway Hogan's official height was 5'7" and it seems that he was probably closer to 5'6".  Bantam Ben.

[Forged4ever]

On 7/29/2024 at 3:00 PM, Nels55 said:

Lloyd Mangrum, is a great name.  Guys who came up in the 30s were tough as nails.  LOL they thought Nicklaus and Palmer's generation were soft, I can't imagine what they would think of todays pros.  Anyway Hogan's official height was 5'7" and it seems that he was probably closer to 5'6".  Bantam Ben.

Sam and Pete said 5'6"-5'7", however I used to post that height, though all the lil hoganites used to come out chirpin and callin me jealous, a "hater(absolutely adore this generation's total hijacking and misuse of that word, even turnin it into a verb😂😂)," yada yada yada, so I just started posting his stated height, lol. It's easier than gettin into with guys, lol. Sam said that Lloyd used "5'7"" in his comment, and Hogan never corrected him. He was either very secure or knew better😂😂

 

Pribably a lil of both, lol

I hope that you're having a nice season👊

Cheers🍻

RP

Edited August 4, 2024 by Forged4ever

[NosajNeelik]

4 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

Sam and Pete said 5'6"-5'7", however I used to post that height, though all the lil hoganites used to come out chirpin and callin me jealous, a "hater(absolutely adore this generation's total hijacking and misuse of that word, even turnin it into a verb😂😂)," yada yada yada, so I just started posting his stated height, lol. It's easier than gettin into with guys, lol. Sam said that Lloyd used "5'7"" in his comment, and Hogan never corrected him. He was either very secure or knew better😂😂

 

Pribably a lil of both, lol

 

I hope that you're having a nice season👊

Cheers🍻

RP

Wonder why it’s always ok to judge a man by his height. It’s not like you tall people did anything to get there. You’re probably all fat anyway😂😂😂

 

yea I’m short. 

[Valtiel]

12 hours ago, NosajNeelik said:

Wonder why it’s always ok to judge a man by his height. It’s not like you tall people did anything to get there. You’re probably all fat anyway😂😂😂

 

yea I’m short. 

Not true, I converted my fat into tall with hard work and discipline. I mean sure....the fat came back later, but *we don't talk about that*. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

17 hours ago, NosajNeelik said:

Wonder why it’s always ok to judge a man by his height. It’s not like you tall people did anything to get there. You’re probably all fat anyway😂😂😂

 

yea I’m short. 

 

I wouldn't judge a man by his height. 

 

After all, women already do.

 

No need for me to add onto that and kick a man while he's down. 

 

Oh wait, you're not "down"? You're standing up? Sorry, everything looks down from up here...

 

😂

[Forged4ever]

On 7/29/2024 at 7:54 PM, NosajNeelik said:

Wonder why it’s always ok to judge a man by his height. It’s not like you tall people did anything to get there. You’re probably all fat anyway😂😂😂

 

yea I’m short. 

I meant no disrespect by it as I was just relating a story as it was told to me. Besides, in the world that I was raised in, worked in & Played in, the only size that mattered was/is  the size of a guy's heart, not how tall he is. 

The only time a vertically challenged individual irritates me is if they've got the lil man's complex, ie., Robert Conrad battery🔋 on the shoulder daring you to knock it off, lol.

 

Stay Well My Friend👊

RP

Edited July 31, 2024 by Forged4ever

[NosajNeelik]

9 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

I meant no disrespect by it as I was just relating a story as it was told to me. Besides, in the world that I was raised in, worked in & Played in, the only size that mattered was/is  the size of a guy's heart, not how tall he is. 

The only time a vertically challenged individual irritates me is if they've got the lil man's complex, ie., Robert Conrad battery🔋 on the shoulder daring you to knock it off, lol.

 

Stay Well My Friend👊

RP

I know 🙂 all in jest having some fun but it is satisfying watching Xander take a couple of big ones for the short guys

😂😂😂 

 

glad to see you posting again hope our Stillers can put up some TDs this year as the other teams are gonna have a hard time with this D I feel 😃😜

[coops]

Being a bit shorter in height doesn't always = Corey Pavin.

 

Ian Woosnam, 5ft 4" and belting a persimmon driver (and wound ball) 300 yards

 

 

"I shovelled a lot of sh@t"

https://golf.com/instruction/ian-woosnam-bomb-gouged-masters-green-jacket/

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

On 7/29/2024 at 1:25 PM, Forged4ever said:

hahahaha, Loyd Mangrum was the friggin BEST!! I did a thread on him in the Tour section(link below) and though I never got to meet him, as you probably know, he was one of Sam's closest friends on Tour, and Sam's stories(and Pete's) were priceless, especially his Hogan stories, hahaha.

Besides, Brooksy's a boy, Lloyd was a Man

 

My GOAT hogan comment was when a reporter in the locker room(back in the day, privileged media/reporters were allowed locker room status) said loud enough for many to hear that Hogan was "larger than life." From a few isles away(Mangrum let it be known that he did not want to be in the same isle as Hogan, EVER), a gravely voice chirped loud enough for many to hear, that "5'9" is still 5'9", 😂😂. Sam, who usually lockered next to Loyd, said that he rolled when he heard that and he really cracked up every time that he retold that story. 

 

For those not familiar or who did not peruse my thread, while Hogan was Playing 💩's 'n giggles golf with generals stateside, Lloyd was doing his service as part of Patton's Third Army, fighting at both Normandy & the Battle of the Bulge, winning a Silver Star at each battle along with a bronze star in each theatre, plus two purple hearts, which he was embarrassed to have won and refused to wear. Sam basically did the same thing as Hogan during his service, Playin with and givin lessons to the generals around the U.S., though Lloyd loved Sam and never got on him about it, however he took myriad shots at Hogan for his stateside service. 

 

@jonsnow was spot on regarding Lloyd Mangrum bein the Real Deal as his US Open Victory was one for the ages. He had movie star looks, a personality to match as Ladies loved him and the guys wanted to be him, he was a HoF Player and he could and did use his 5i with equal aplomb both in the fairways  and in various bars. Your choice, lolol😉

 

Oh yeh, I almost forgot, Lloyd early on supplemented his income as a movie double for Clark Gable, lol.

 

WTF🤪?!?!?

 

I hope that your recovery has gone well Jon, and regarding swing speed, don't worry bout that Brotha, as @RichieHunt stated, work on Tempo, and the speed will follow, at least as far as your present physical condition will allow. Richie was spot on with John Novosel's Tour Tempo. Aside from bein a superb program, He's a Class act, as good as you'll find and he'll take the time to exchange with you, be it by email, tele or text.

 

Apologies about the derailment in a thread about derailments😂🤪😂

 

Hey, they let me stay 'n Play, warts and all🤪

 

All the Best My Friends👊

RP

 

 

 

 

I have a copy of his old paperback instructional book - amazing how stuff in there still translates!  Not everything new is new, lol, some of it just described differently these days.

[bladehunter]

On 7/25/2024 at 9:26 AM, SheriffBooth said:

 

 

You guys are hitting the nail on the head.

 

Other big issue lately is veering the thread way off topic.

 

If we can clean up the personal back and forth and the off topic posting, I think everything will be hunky-dory.

I just want to go on the record and say.  WASNT ME !!!  ( this time ). 🤣🤣.  Feels good to be on the right side of the law 😬

[Lefthook]

On 7/31/2024 at 1:34 PM, coops said:

Being a bit shorter in height doesn't always = Corey Pavin.

 

Ian Woosnam, 5ft 4" and belting a persimmon driver (and wound ball) 300 yards

 

 

"I shovelled a lot of sh@t"

https://golf.com/instruction/ian-woosnam-bomb-gouged-masters-green-jacket/

 

 

 

 

Definitive proof that early extension can get you to the top of the world. He was numero uno for many weeks and months back in the days.

[TheDeanAbides]

I’m sorry to see that we haven’t really learnt anything with another thread that could potentially have been a great debate being locked.

 

I wish people understood that a debate is primarily an attempt to move towards truth, and that’s the only goal. It’s not an opportunity for ad hominem attacks and doubling down on our cognitive bias. 
 

An open and enquiring mind is a wonderful, powerful and exciting thing, but one stuck in cognitive dissonance that attaches opinion to its sense of self stagnates and dies. 
 

There are so many great minds in this forum, and it’s a shame the noise gets in the way. 

[TheDeanAbides]

Just to add to the above, these issues tend to happen when our opinions are too entangled with our sense of self. If we equate “I think that’s wrong” to “I think you’re bad” then our defence mechanisms are activated and we get defensive. 

[mshills]

30 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Just to add to the above, these issues tend to happen when our opinions are too entangled with our sense of self. If we equate “I think that’s wrong” to “I think you’re bad” then our defence mechanisms are activated and we get defensive. 

Or, just as common, I’m a double digit index and have been for the 25 years that I’ve played golf, but I have the swing all figured out and I will deliver an explanation explosion to anyone with ears to hear.
 

That is the kind of stuff that makes an instruction forum useless. Not that a great teacher MUST be an elite player. We know that’s not the case. But you should have some level of competence. Without that, no credibility.