Adding weight to p udi head.

[Pnwpingi210]

Looking for some help.  Building up a p udi 2 iron with Ventus black 10tx at 39.5 inches and a midsize z cord grip.  Dry weight it comes out to c9 Want to get it to d3, so I need about 8 grams.  What’s the best way to do that l?  Ideally a mix of adding a heavier weight to the hosel port and some weight to the toe port?  Hot melt?

 

I can always do lead tape but trying to make this a little more aesthetic incase I don’t love it.

[bekgolf]

This is something I've just started to mess with and can see the center of gravity move with as little as a 6g weight.  I'm using a fairly basic method of balancing the iron head on a pencil to find center, marking it, and then adding weight in different places to see the effect on center of gravity. 

 

The movement I observed was about .100" with a new TS-2 head.  With the weight low in the hosel it moved lower and toward the hosel.  Taping the weight to the lower portion of the toe (where a weight port would be) resulted in movement toward the toe.  How much does .100" make?  I don't know, I'd imagine there are a lot of variables to consider.  Did I measure correctly?  I think so, balancing the new iron head on the head of a pencil took some precision to get it right but marking the spot had the biggest chance for error imo.

 

In my case I was wondering the same thing for a hybrid build I have coming up, there are 4 weight ports and I'd like to keep things as intended vs adding a bias that wasn't intended by the manufacturer.

 

If the center of gravity is where you want it I'd do exactly as you mentioned, split the difference. 

[skraly]

Without trying to be flippant, I can tell you exactly how much difference 0.100” movement in the balance point makes-NONE.  No human, including the best tour iron strikers, can consistently make contact with a delta of 0.100” or less.

[Pnwpingi210]

5 minutes ago, skraly said:

Without trying to be flippant, I can tell you exactly how much difference 0.100” movement in the balance point makes-NONE.  No human, including the best tour iron strikers, can consistently make contact with a delta of 0.100” or less.

Less concerned with balance point and more concerned with gear effect of 10 grams of weight in the toe or hosel.  That is enough for most of us to notice.

[skraly]

Not with a wedge.  Three reasons-wedge heads are heavier, so, as a percentage, the weight differential is less than non-wedge clubs, the higher loft compared to non-wedge clubs.  The higher the loft the more difficult it is to tilt the axis of rotation and make the ball curve right or left.  Finally, most wedge shots are hit with considerably less swing speed than any iron or wood shot.  Less flight time means less time for the ball to move right or left.

 

Plus, I rather mis-spoke in the previous post.  Instead of balance point I actually meant to say the C.G.

 

I might also add that the upright lie angle and shorter shaft of wedges encourages a more upright and therefore less rounded swing path.  Again, muting any gear-effect.  Although if you have a flat enough swing plane that may not be quite as convincing as the first three I mentioned.  But even very flat swingers have difficulty getting much curvature on a wedge shot.  No matter how flat your swing may be, you’re never going to get a wedge to curve as much as, say, a 5 iron.

 

And I’m not saying that, if you’re skilled enough, you can’t get a wedge to curve.  You just have to work extra hard at it.  Even then, the amount of curve one might get out of a wedge shot is very limited.

Edited August 4, 2024 by skraly

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

If you can manage to get hot melt in a hollow bodied utility iron, I’d say go for it. Not only does it address the tip weight vs lead tape conundrum, but I found that it improved the sound (and feel) of my ZX utility pretty dramatically.

 

Guy who did it said he got like 12g in there. Before I had it hotmelted, I had a tip weight AND lead tape on the back of it (I play it short and heavy), so I came from the worst of both worlds. Was very pleased with the result. 

[Pnwpingi210]

7 hours ago, skraly said:

Not with a wedge.  Three reasons-wedge heads are heavier, so, as a percentage, the weight differential is less than non-wedge clubs, the higher loft compared to non-wedge clubs.  The higher the loft the more difficult it is to tilt the axis of rotation and make the ball curve right or left.  Finally, most wedge shots are hit with considerably less swing speed than any iron or wood shot.  Less flight time means less time for the ball to move right or left.

 

Plus, I rather mis-spoke in the previous post.  Instead of balance point I actually meant to say the C.G.

 

I might also add that the upright lie angle and shorter shaft of wedges encourages a more upright and therefore less rounded swing path.  Again, muting any gear-effect.  Although if you have a flat enough swing plane that may not be quite as convincing as the first three I mentioned.  But even very flat swingers have difficulty getting much curvature on a wedge shot.  No matter how flat your swing may be, you’re never going to get a wedge to curve as much as, say, a 5 iron.

 

And I’m not saying that, if you’re skilled enough, you can’t get a wedge to curve.  You just have to work extra hard at it.  Even then, the amount of curve one might get out of a wedge shot is very limited.

I’m not building a wedge.  I building a 2024 p udi 2 iron at 17 degrees loft and 39.5 inches long. 
 

I understand the challenges with trying to curve short irons and wedges.  I’m not sure of it’s relevancy in this thread.

[Pnwpingi210]

2 hours ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

If you can manage to get hot melt in a hollow bodied utility iron, I’d say go for it. Not only does it address the tip weight vs lead tape conundrum, but I found that it improved the sound (and feel) of my ZX utility pretty dramatically.

 

Guy who did it said he got like 12g in there. Before I had it hotmelted, I had a tip weight AND lead tape on the back of it (I play it short and heavy), so I came from the worst of both worlds. Was very pleased with the result. 

This is what I needed to hear.  I guess it’s not super important where the hotmelt goes as long as it doesn’t touch the face?

 

ive long been afraid of hot melt as I got a ping 400 lst hot melted and they got hot melt on the face.  Ruined the driver

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

2 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

This is what I needed to hear.  I guess it’s not super important where the hotmelt goes as long as it doesn’t touch the face?

 

ive long been afraid of hot melt as I got a ping 400 lst hot melted and they got hot melt on the face.  Ruined the driver

Right. Should all be inside the hollow body. The Srixons have a little plug on the toe and it can be inserted through there. My understanding is they were basically designed to be able to take hot melt. 
 

I’m definitely not comfortable doing it myself, for the reasons you stated. Fortunately, I know a competent shop locally that did it for like $10-15. I could understand how someone ruining a beloved driver head would give cause for concern. 

[Stuart_G]

On 8/3/2024 at 10:19 PM, Pnwpingi210 said:

Less concerned with balance point and more concerned with gear effect of 10 grams of weight in the toe or hosel.  That is enough for most of us to notice.

 

First of all, gear effect is negligible in most irons to begin with.   Gear effect requires the c.g. to be far enough behind the impact point and that's generally a very small distance with most irons.   Big thick chunky utility irons that are on the verge of becoming hybrids might have a small amount - but for most irons the gear effect will be negligible regardless of what you might do.

 

Second,  a change in gear effect is all about c.g. movement.   If you don't have any significant movement of the c.g., you wont have any significant change in gear effect.   In fact if anything, the added weight will increase MOI - which will reduce the gear effect.

 

 

Finally don't get too fixated on a particular swing weight value.   Unless you might be duplicating an existing club exactly (same length, same shaft, same grip), you should always at least start with lead tape, building up incrementally on the range and testing by feel and performance, not just blindly shooting for a particular swing weight value.   Once you've done that, you can replace the lead tape with hot melt or a tip weight.  It's even more important ESPECIALLY if you plane on using hot melt to replace the lead tape because it's such a PITA to remove.  So you don't want to risk putting in too much.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Stuart_G