Taller golfers playing shorter than standard irons.

[Pnwpingi210]

Disclaimer I’m a bit of a tinker.  I’m 6’1’’ and with 36.5 wtf.  Sharing an experience and seeing if any others have had the same thing happen ( or see it as a coach)
 

I’ve been struggling with a long left iron miss for a couple of years.   I tend to dip my left shoulder down and back/left at impact, closing the club face.   Worked with a coach for a but have not had any coaching in about a year.   My wedge games has been the best it’s ever been, partially i think to playing standard to a bit shorter wedges (35 60* and 35.5 54*and 50*).  I don’t seem to do the left shoulder thing with the wedges and they flight fine.

 

I’m playing a set of jpx tour irons with x100 at stock mizuno length (36 end of grip 9 iron on Mitchell).  I decided cut the 9 iron and 5 iron down to 1/2 inch, adjust upright 1.5 degrees, regrip, and swing-weight back to d4 and head to the range.  Results were pretty good.  Actually felt comfortable.  Left side miss was avoided.  Ball seemed to flight lower and spin less but fairly straight with a slight fade at times.  I did top a couple, but i think that’s mostly a short term adjustment and just getting comfortable with releasing down into the ball fully.  I also noticed I could push off the ground more and rotate with my lead leg, vs the what felt more like spinning out with the standard length.

 

Have any of you seen or experienced this?

 

most of the static fit charts put me at 2 degrees up and .5 inches over.  It never feel quite right.  Moving up to a full inch felt better, but I started to really get a high spinny flight. 

Edited August 14, 2024 by Pnwpingi210

[cav5]

jeffmont/redbird avian dynamic fitting is your answer

[betarhoalphadelta]

IMHO I've never really understood why they always recommend that if you're taller, you need to extend the club AND go upright. 

 

If you're taller and you're playing a standard length club, by nature the stock lie angle will be too flat, because you're holding the club more upright.

 

If you're taller and you extend the club enough that point where it will be the same angle at address for a shorter player, then you should be at the correct lie angle. 

 

I suspect that the issue is that for taller golfers, they don't want to extend clubs by the actual necessary amount, due to swing weight issues, to maintain the angles. So they extend a little and bend upright a little. 

 

For you, @Pnwpingi210, you went from +1/2" and upright 2* to -1/2" and upright 1.5*. That inch reduction in length would have meant that your lie angle, as it actually happens addressing the ball, didn't actually only change by half a degree. It changed by significantly more. Your real lie angle was probably about 0.5* upright or close to standard. And suddenly you weren't pulling the ball left so much.

 

What I might suggest is bending a couple of your +1/2" irons closer to flat and see if that takes the left tendency out. It might not be a length issue at all--it could have been a bad lie angle fit. 

 

This is just me spitballing here BTW... But something to think about. 

[Pnwpingi210]

5 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

IMHO I've never really understood why they always recommend that if you're taller, you need to extend the club AND go upright. 

 

If you're taller and you're playing a standard length club, by nature the stock lie angle will be too flat, because you're holding the club more upright.

 

If you're taller and you extend the club enough that point where it will be the same angle at address for a shorter player, then you should be at the correct lie angle. 

 

I suspect that the issue is that for taller golfers, they don't want to extend clubs by the actual necessary amount, due to swing weight issues, to maintain the angles. So they extend a little and bend upright a little. 

 

For you, @Pnwpingi210, you went from +1/2" and upright 2* to -1/2" and upright 1.5*. That inch reduction in length would have meant that your lie angle, as it actually happens addressing the ball, didn't actually only change by half a degree. It changed by significantly more. Your real lie angle was probably about 0.5* upright or close to standard. And suddenly you weren't pulling the ball left so much.

 

What I might suggest is bending a couple of your +1/2" irons closer to flat and see if that takes the left tendency out. It might not be a length issue at all--it could have been a bad lie angle fit. 

 

This is just me spitballing here BTW... But something to think about. 

Thanks for this.  It makes sense. A clarification.  I went from 2 up from mizuno at +.5 to an additional 1.5 up ( for a total of 3.5 up) when I went to -0.5.  
 

 I have played flatter irons (2 flat off ping standard) at standard length and it helped with the left miss but I could not start the ball right without the toe digging.

I'm going to hit them again today, early without a warmup to see if it causes back problems.

[betarhoalphadelta]

17 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Thanks for this.  It makes sense. A clarification.  I went from 2 up from mizuno at +.5 to an additional 1.5 up ( for a total of 3.5 up) when I went to -0.5.  
 

 I have played flatter irons (2 flat off ping standard) at standard length and it helped with the left miss but I could not start the ball right without the toe digging.

I'm going to hit them again today, early without a warmup to see if it causes back problems.

 

Got it. Yeah, if it was lie angle, I'd expect going up to +3.5" when you shortened would maintain the same problem. 

 

But if you're messing around and tinkering, have you ever done the sharpie test for lie angle? If nothing else, it should help you make sure your lie angles are right for your equipment/swing. 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Got it. Yeah, if it was lie angle, I'd expect going up to +3.5" when you shortened would maintain the same problem. 

 

But if you're messing around and tinkering, have you ever done the sharpie test for lie angle? If nothing else, it should help you make sure your lie angles are right for your equipment/swing. 

I will do the lie angle test when I hit some balls today.  Will also try to get some launch data, but that might be tough.   
 

Appreciate the thoughts.  I think you are on to something about holding angles.  When I’ve tried longer clubs in the past holding angles and delofting the club is a struggle.  I actually have Both a chunky miss and thin miss and flushed shots launch really high.
 

in reality 35.5 EOG for a 9 iron on Mitchell isn probably about .25 short of modern standard length on a USGA ruler.  
 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

If anything I said about angles is making you think I was talking about dynamic swing stuff, I wasn't. Not talking about "holding the lag" or "positive shaft lean" or anything like that. I was just referring to the static angle formed between the club and vertical (or between club and the ground) and how it's impacted by height, WTF, address position, and shaft length. 

 

Just wanted to be clear so I don't send you down some rabbit hole I didn't intend to 😉 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

If anything I said about angles is making you think I was talking about dynamic swing stuff, I wasn't. Not talking about "holding the lag" or "positive shaft lean" or anything like that. I was just referring to the static angle formed between the club and vertical (or between club and the ground) and how it's impacted by height, WTF, address position, and shaft length. 

 

Just wanted to be clear so I don't send you down some rabbit hole I didn't intend to 😉 

 

Got it.  No more rabbit holes than normal 🙂

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

to see if it causes back problems.

That would be my concern.   Over the course of your life.  Don’t ask me how I know this.   

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, st1800e said:

That would be my concern.   Over the course of your life.  Don’t ask me how I know this.   

This is what worries me.  There’s a famous golfer who is roughly the same height and age as me, that plays shorter than standard irons and his back and knees are shot 🙂

 

 

[azgreg]

I'm a taller guy but use TLT fitting. My wedges and short irons are longer (1") but my longer irons are much closer to standard length.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

11 minutes ago, azgreg said:

I'm a taller guy but use TLT fitting. My wedges and short irons are longer (1") but my longer irons are much closer to standard length.

 

Likewise, I'm a taller guy (6'5" with 39.5" WTF), and if I went back to variable length irons I'd go with something like that. Currently I'm in single length all at 37.5", with 36.75" wedges. 

[Maine Golfer]

6'4 and I need +1 , it changes everything and I need the lie's up.  I have a lot of sets (I like classic stuff) and after like  under a 5 iron or so it doesn't really mater as much, long irons.  I don't think you need it on woods and you can also play standard hybrids at my height.

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

Day two ball striking not as good.  Definely catching it a couple grooves low, but not going left near as much.  9 iron was better than 5 iron.

 

lie rest with sharper tells me I still need to go a degree or so more upright at the minus .5 inch.  That would out me at 66.5 degree 9 iron which is pretty upright. 
 

 

[rsballer10]

6'5" with 38.5" WTF. Have played standard length in the past, but played almost exclusively partial swings from 7 iron to wedge. Accuracy was great, but basically had to dink and dunk my way around golf courses. I've settled on +1/2" because +1" was comfortable but inaccurate.

 

It sounds counter intuitive, but I've found lighter/softer shafts help eliminate a left miss.

[Pnwpingi210]

After testing this a few times at a grass range on non consecutive days I’m ending the experiment.  Progressively tighter lower back in the mornings.
 

I did find an easier time really compressing the short irons ( I actually picked up a couple miles per hr ball speed and some carry on my 9 iron) due an easier time reducing dynamic loft with the shorter clubs.  Also the left pull miss disappeared completely and actually let me hit mid tractory cut when I tried.  Oddly enough I started to develop a little chunky miss.

 

All in all in was a good learning experience and I won’t wonder about playing shorter clubs anymore.