Trail knee hip foot in transition and downswing

[MannJ]

I would like some input on this please because I’m not seeing a lot on it out there. 
I have developed a natural tendency to shoot my lower trail side out towards the ball on the downswing. 
I assume it’s not beneficial because I don’t see most good players or pros doing it. Yes some but not most. 
I accomplished this a little last night by feeling like I was rolling off the trail foot and kind of collapsing the leg into the hip. 
I think it helps my pressure shift and my hip position, but I am not sure if it is sound mechanics 

[MannJ]

 

 

 

[iacas]

I'd just merge the topics and post it there. It's all inter-related. The help you got there is relevant to this, and any help you get here would be relevant there.

[GoGoErky]

The trail foot is pushing back ie what you see happening in Schefflers swing(extreme example).

 

The trail hip gets a little deeper in transition (monte’s zipper back drill) and stays there while the lead hip is moving back.

 

There isn’t much pressure on the trail side in transition/downswing as it’s been shifter to lead side. Those who have the right hip/knee moving towards the ball tend to be stuck on the trail side and don’t get to the lead side early enough.

 

but this comes from not shifting pressure properly and moving the hips properly in the takeaway and backswing.

 

What is seen a lot is bad setup, too close to the ball, improper wrist sets getting the club inside.

 

To fix the trail side issue pressure shifting and setting the wrists need to be addressed 

Edited August 15, 2024 by GoGoErky

[GoGoErky]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8gJSigtCMR/?igsh=ZGVqcDlqZmVlZTgy
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3x9dAUva7q/?igsh=MXQybGs5bGE2djQ0aQ==
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8rx6-ZpkKS/?igsh=MWlmdzRlYnJoZG1oZw==
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CseNygvrDC_/?igsh=MWFnaWhlcTgybG5mbw==

[MK7Golf21]

37 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

The trail foot is pushing back ie what you see happening in Schefflers swing(extreme example).

 

 

 

Just a note on Schefflers swing, he gets his upper body ahead of his hips at the top of the swing so as he starts to unwind in the downswing, his lower body has to stall, hips slide and his right foot slides back. All these moves help to prevent him coming across the ball which is setup to happen because he has a very upright plane and his upper body getting ahead of his hips.

 

 

[MannJ]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

 

 

To fix the trail side issue pressure shifting and setting the wrists need to be addressed 

You identified what others have previously. 
The pressure shift has been a battle. Doing this just the right amount without getting out of position, with the right timing. 
I also have found that focusing on pressure shift while striking a golf ball is a really ineffective way to hit the ball, so I was hoping addressing other aspects would create the right shift rather than vice versa. 
 

The wrist set I have worked on too. Am working on still. It’s like my wrist won’t do it, or my left hand wants to cup if I do. 

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, MannJ said:

You identified what others have previously. 
The pressure shift has been a battle. Doing this just the right amount without getting out of position, with the right timing. 
I also have found that focusing on pressure shift while striking a golf ball is a really ineffective way to hit the ball, so I was hoping addressing other aspects would create the right shift rather than vice versa. 
 

The wrist set I have worked on too. Am working on still. It’s like my wrist won’t do it, or my left hand wants to cup if I do. 

The pressure shift is far more effective than not doing it. It’s what happens in every good swing so it’s not ineffective at all.

 

have you done any over exaggeration drills for both the wrist set and shift?

 

Has any of your work including the above been done at slower speeds or with the swing going to no further than lead arm parallel?

 

 

[KD1]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

There isn’t much pressure on the lead side in transition/downswing as it’s been shifter to lead side. Those who have the right hip/knee moving towards the ball tend to be stuck on the trail side and don’t get to the lead side early enough.

 

Im glad you said that, that's been my working theory for myself. I have/had OP's  issues. I figure one of the reasons I collapse the right leg is because I learned that was the quickest way to get my weight on my left side when I was out of position.

 

@MannJ this is a real common problem, I'm surprised you haven't found much on it. Some drills include putting a iron under your trail heel, step on the face so the handle is lifted off the ground and dont let it drop until after impact.

 

Another one my coach gave me is the trail foot inside a range basket on its side. The rim of the basket should be an inch or so from your shin, don't let your shin touch the rim through swing. If you do you'll know about it REAL quick.

 

Another is the "bowler drill".

 

Be advised AMG dropped a video this week and apparently they're not big fans of that foot in the basket drill...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2024 by KD1

[GoGoErky]

7 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

Im glad you said that, that's been my working theory for myself. I have/had OP's  issues. I figure one of the reasons I collapse the right leg is because I learned that was the quickest way to get my weight on my left side when I was out of position.

 

@MannJ this is a real common problem, I'm surprised you haven't found much on it. Some drills include putting a iron under your trail heel, step on the face so the handle is lifted off the ground and dont let it drop until after impact.

 

Another one my coach gave me is the trail foot inside a range basket on its side. The rim of the basket should be an inch or so from your shin, don't let your shin touch the rim through swing. If you, you'll real quick.

 

Another is the "bowler drill".

 

Be advised AMG dropped a video this week, apparently they're not big fans of that foot in the basket drill...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Went back to edit that today trail side during transition downswing. Brain to keyboard wasn’t working right.

it’s very common. Almost every video posted in this section and the swing video section has some amount of improper pressure shifting, trail hip firing, improper wrist set going on. I’ve seen several instructors talk about a lot more lately on various socials.

 

Agree the club under the foot drill. AMG I believe has a drill with a squeaky toy for pets under the lead heel so you know when the pressure has shifted there.

 

Montes and others wall drill is another good one

 

 

Edited August 15, 2024 by GoGoErky

[KD1]

3 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Montes and others wall drill is another good one

Good point. Wall drill, Justin Rose drill, NTC, drills that get my arms down faster before spinning out have the nice side effect of getting the right leg lunge under control.

[MannJ]

49 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

The pressure shift is far more effective than not doing it. It’s what happens in every good swing so it’s not ineffective at all.

 

have you done any over exaggeration drills for both the wrist set and shift?

 

Has any of your work including the above been done at slower speeds or with the swing going to no further than lead arm parallel?

 

 

Sorry I wasn’t saying the pressure shift wasn’t necessary, I meant to say if I overly focus on it when hitting balls I seem to go from too little or wrong shift to moving my entire body too much towards the target. I get lost in the feels of pressure in the foot. All sorts of craziness. 
What I am doing now is occasionally checking that I make the initial shift to trail early and that the shift to the lead begins happening before I start ds. 
 

I have tried some slow motion. 
I have not done arm parallel 

[MK7Golf21]

you can tell the OP is just spinning because of his over rotated finish, trail shoulder pretty much gets to his lead heel in the follow through. Only get that by trying to spin super hard.

[MannJ]

I am trying to exaggerate the wrist. I can probably exaggerate more. I believe it’s better than it was. I don’t have an old video to show but it was worse. 
 

Yes I have seen the club under foot drill and others. 
 

What I meant by haven’t seen much on it is I haven’t seen people saying I should collapse the trail leg knee. 
It seems to me to be the only way to get trail hip slightly lower and to keep knee in and pressure off that trail foot, to some degree. 
 

In a previous post it was pointed out to me that the pressure shift is different for different people. I saw info of this guy, his name escapes me, who has very solid traditional mechanics and his pressure shift was more gradual than others and was more what I feel, so I have been using him as a model to check other mechanics and I saw what I thought was his trail leg collapse and foot roll 

[MannJ]

9 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

you can tell the OP is just spinning because of his over rotated finish, trail shoulder pretty much gets to his lead heel in the follow through. Only get that by trying to spin super hard.

Not trying to spin. All I try to do in the downswing is get left hip back to where right is, and collapse the leg maybe recently 

[GoGoErky]

19 minutes ago, MannJ said:

Sorry I wasn’t saying the pressure shift wasn’t necessary, I meant to say if I overly focus on it when hitting balls I seem to go from too little or wrong shift to moving my entire body too much towards the target. I get lost in the feels of pressure in the foot. All sorts of craziness. 
What I am doing now is occasionally checking that I make the initial shift to trail early and that the shift to the lead begins happening before I start ds. 
 

I have tried some slow motion. 
I have not done arm parallel 

You have to practice it properly and with less than full swings and less than full speed.

 

Its a new movement pattern and your body needs to be taught that movement pattern which it won’t do at full speed.

 

What drills or references are you using to do learn to pressure shift?

[wagolfer7]

My recommendation is to focus on just one thing.  Just do this drill that @GoGoErky posted.  Learn what it feels like to have your hips move, but keep your butt on the wall.  It'll be way different to you and feel powerless.  It's not just your transition, your initial hip turn in the backswing, is setting you up to turn that trail hip into the ball.  Get that down first and see what your swing looks like after that. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CseNygvrDC_/?igsh=MWFnaWhlcTgybG5mbw%3D%3D

 

    

[MannJ]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

I'd just merge the topics and post it there. It's all inter-related. The help you got there is relevant to this, and any help you get here would be relevant there.

I really was just wanting someone to say “yes you should feel like the right side is collapsing” or “ no!!!’ don’t do that”. 🤣

 

It turned into more pressure shift stuff because it must be glaringly obvious that is my problem. Wasn’t my intention 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, MannJ said:

I really was just wanting someone to say “yes you should feel like the right side is collapsing” or “ no!!!’ don’t do that”. 🤣

 

It turned into more pressure shift stuff because it must be glaringly obvious that is my problem. Wasn’t my intention 

 

I think my main point is that it's difficult for those who want to try to help you when you appear to be chasing multiple things at the same time and posts they made over in one other topic that are still relevant because it's still your swing aren't in this topic… etc.

 

Find your priority piece. Work on that until it's no longer your priority piece because it's gotten good enough that something else is.

 

And for those that want to help you, and this is just my personal take… I know I appreciate it when one person has one swing "thread" where they have an ongoing discussion about their swing. I find it more difficult to help when one person has multiple topics all about their golf swing.

[KD1]

My coach would say "no!!! don't do that". It was the only thing we worked on for two or three sessions. He said it's a particulary hard habit to break.

 

Re "foot roll": Another research term would be trail foot "banking"

 

My coach wants to see the trail foot roll to the instep then roll up on to the tip of the toe after impact in the follow through. I'm specifying my coach because I've seen different opinions on this.

 

In the latest AMG video I mentioned abeov, and in some others of theirs, they talk about the knee does need to flex a bit. You might watch this week's video, their video on "why you need early extension", and hip depth. And I'm sure they have videos specifically on the trail leg they're just not fresh in my mind.

 

Im not a coach so I have to ask, is his "hip plane" too flat? I don't know if that's really a thing...

 

PS: that was Adam Scott in your photo. can't quite tell if you were just goofin. it looks to me like it's just the inside of his big toe that's on the ground. His knee is moving toward the target, not the ball.

Edited August 15, 2024 by KD1

[GoGoErky]

30 minutes ago, MannJ said:

I really was just wanting someone to say “yes you should feel like the right side is collapsing” or “ no!!!’ don’t do that”. 🤣

 

It turned into more pressure shift stuff because it must be glaringly obvious that is my problem. Wasn’t my intention 

No don’t do that. Fix the issues in the takeaway and backswing and more than likely it will cleanup the issues in the downswing. What you are doing is a reaction to what you do in the takeaway and backswing.

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, MannJ said:

Not trying to spin. All I try to do in the downswing is get left hip back to where right is, and collapse the leg maybe recently 

 

trying to get the left hip back is rotating on the downswing. It's not a bad feel but you are over rotated on the follow through so you are definitely trying to push that left hip back super hard and probably too early. 

[golferdude54]

Cut a golf ball in half and place the flat part on the ground under the middle of your trail outstep.

 

Place a water bottle just outside your trail heel on the outstep side. 
 

Don’t hit balls but take a bunch of practice swings with this setup and train your heel to bank/roll to avoid and move away from the water bottle in the downswing. 
 

 

 

You can see in both these swings that their trail heel would not break the plane/water bottle drill at all.

 

 

[MannJ]

10 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

No don’t do that. Fix the issues in the takeaway and backswing and more than likely it will cleanup the issues in the downswing. What you are doing is a reaction to what you do in the takeaway and backswing.

 

 

Okay. Whew!  Thank you. 

[MannJ]

10 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

trying to get the left hip back is rotating on the downswing. It's not a bad feel but you are over rotated on the follow through so you are definitely trying to push that left hip back super hard and probably too early. 

If you feel like it’s somehow beneficial to tell me I am doing something with more intensity than I am telling you I am doing it, 🤷‍♂️

[MannJ]

43 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I think my main point is that it's difficult for those who want to try to help you when you appear to be chasing multiple things at the same time and posts they made over in one other topic that are still relevant because it's still your swing aren't in this topic… etc.

 

Find your priority piece. Work on that until it's no longer your priority piece because it's gotten good enough that something else is.

 

And for those that want to help you, and this is just my personal take… I know I appreciate it when one person has one swing "thread" where they have an ongoing discussion about their swing. I find it more difficult to help when one person has multiple topics all about their golf swing.

Understood and makes sense. I am still kind of new to this. I appreciate yours and others help. 

[MK7Golf21]

20 minutes ago, MannJ said:

If you feel like it’s somehow beneficial to tell me I am doing something with more intensity than I am telling you I am doing it, 🤷‍♂️

feel isn’t real, don’t know what you are feeling. I just see an over rotated finish after the ball is hit and you mentioned the only feeling you have is pushing the left hip back on the downswing which is rotation.
 

Instead I’d be feeling my right hip stay deeper and not over rotating my upper body in follow through. 

 

 

[fore_life]

[Valtiel]

I'd also remind you of the importance of the hand/arm/wrist stuff given your uniquely extreme wingspan. Long arms + long backswing = lots more to move and more distance to move it to stay in sequence. Also please make the adjustment to shooting face on videos for this, it's been mentioned several times that it's really difficult to see what needs to be seen to give further guidance from DTL. 

[KD1]

2 hours ago, MannJ said:

so I have been using him as a model to check other mechanics and I saw what I thought was his trail leg collapse and foot roll