Fitness Only: Calisthenics & Plyos. Athletic, Springy, Strong, Mobile, Quick Body. Minimal Time & Equipment

[Nels55]

30 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

That’s goes for any age. But loading the spine with heavy weights isn’t inherently bad as claimed, nor is the jumping around that was noted earlier.

Nobody is advocating for using bad form or lifting heavier than one is capable of handling.  
 

allowing one’s body to adapt and get stronger under load is safe otherwise there would be a lot more injuries from those who do back squats. Also not putting loading weight that is beyond one’s strength level also prevents injuries.

 

 

 

 

What I wrote is based on my experience and I stand by it.  I believe that it is better to not do squats, power cleans and dead lifts.  Also limit the jumping around and running for that matter.  I did a lot of all of that and I would have vehemently agreed with you back in the day.  Changed my mind now LOL.  I know that the majority will disagree and maybe you are correct.  Also it may depend a lot on a person's build and physical capabilities.  At any rate I am happy with my exercise and conditioning efforts and I believe that what I am doing is best for me.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

What I wrote is based on my experience and I stand by it.  I believe that it is better to not do squats, power cleans and dead lifts.  Also limit the jumping around and running for that matter.  I did a lot of all of that and I would have vehemently agreed with you back in the day.  Changed my mind now LOL.  I know that the majority will disagree and maybe you are correct.  Also it may depend a lot on a person's build and physical capabilities.  At any rate I am happy with my exercise and conditioning efforts and I believe that what I am doing is best for me.

What I write is based on training, knowledge and science as well as experience. I am a certified personal trainer, I have basic nutrition and strength training courses that have been part of my continuing education for my personal training. 

 

You can believe what you want but it’s not backed by any science or data.

 

Plyometrics which is a lot of jumping around as pointed out earlier in the thread actually get your heart rate as they are higher intensity exercises, strengthen bones and joints, improve  strength, improve coordination and athletics performance. So science of jumping around proves your experience is that of bad information or belief. It does the opposite if what you think.

 

The best athletes in the world do squats, bench press, deadlifts, various Olympic lifts and for some Plyometrics. They are guided by experts who have spent years studying the body and training principles and are constantly learning every day from research and studies. 

Resistance training is king when it comes to being healthy and strong.

Edited November 23, 2024 by GoGoErky

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

What I write is based on training, knowledge and science as well as experience. I am a certified personal trainer, I have basic nutrition and strength training courses that have been part of my continuing education for my personal training. 

 

You can believe what you want but it’s not backed by any science or data.

 

Plyometrics which is a lot of jumping around as pointed out earlier in the thread actually get your heart rate as they are higher intensity exercises, strengthen bones and joints, improve  strength, improve coordination and athletics performance. So science of jumping around proves your experience is that of bad information or belief. It does the opposite if what you think.

 

The best athletes in the world do squats, bench press, deadlifts, various Olympic lifts and for some Plyometrics. They are guided by experts who have spent years studying the body and training principles and are constantly learning every day from research and studies. 

Resistance training is king when it comes to being healthy and strong.

Okay.  I am interested in the research.  Particularly a long term study that shows that people who do Plyometrics from a young age are better off when they are in the 70s and up. 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Okay.  I am interested in the research.  Particularly a long term study that shows that people who do Plyometrics from a young age are better off when they are in the 70s and up. 

Google scholar is your friend.

 

Squats, jumping around, Plyometrics are done by professional athletes in every sport. If they were and for people making millions of dollars wouldn’t be doing any of that. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Google scholar is your friend.

 

Squats, jumping around, Plyometrics are done by professional athletes in every sport. If they were and for people making millions of dollars wouldn’t be doing any of that. 

What pro athletes do is not relevant to the discussion.  I assert that cycling, swimming, yoga or other low impact exercise is far better for keeping an average person healthy and mobile over a long period of time then bouncing around on a hard surface.  As for the science aspect of it you made the claim so back it up.

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

What pro athletes do is not relevant to the discussion.  I assert that cycling, swimming, yoga or other low impact exercise is far better for keeping an average person healthy and mobile over a long period of time then bouncing around on a hard surface.  As for the science aspect of it you made the claim so back it up.

 

Some impact is good. You can't just float around in a bowl of jelly, even if you're strengthening muscles. Your bones, joints, etc. need to be strengthened, too, and that requires a little impact, a little compression…

 

You're making claims, too, so why aren't you responsible for backing them up, too? And why is what professional athletes do to stay fit and healthy irrelevant?

[GoGoErky]

45 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

What pro athletes do is not relevant to the discussion.  I assert that cycling, swimming, yoga or other low impact exercise is far better for keeping an average person healthy and mobile over a long period of time then bouncing around on a hard surface.  As for the science aspect of it you made the claim so back it up.

What pro athletes do is very relevant. They aren’t going to perform excepted that will jeopardize tneir ability to play whatever sport they have chosen as a profession. So Doing these movements isn’t bad for joints, muscles or bones, if they were then these elite athletes wouls

skip them.

 

There are all kinds of ways to stay active and the average person is going to benefit more from resistance training and Plyometrics than they will cycling. We squat and stand up every day. We picks up objects off the floor, we pick up odd shaped objects all the time. We grab things overhead all the time. Squat, overhead pressing and deadlifts are daily movements. Being strong in them helps every person lead a better life.

 

Resistance training is the best way to get stronger and builds stronger bones and muscles. There’s no downside to a regular person lifting heavy weights and doing plyometric movements.

 

Not doing them is worse than doing them.

 

I don’t do others propels research. I have coaches I collaborate with who have tons of info and if I want some content they put out I have to go look for it or pay them to find it and send it to me.

 

You’re stating opinions yet you aren’t backing it up with any data discrediting me, the science and data or to support your outdated opinion.

 

as for cycling and swimming they have their planes in training and even in some cases aren’t a bad option for including in some people’s training. But they aren’t the superior exercise

 

The more I rely the more I get the frustration many of the instructions on this site have experienced 

 

As a trainer/coach I’m going to

interview the client and determine their goals, find out things they like to do in the gym, what their daily lifestyle is, any activities they do, how much time they have to dedicate to training. I’m going to give them a movement assessment, give them exercises to correct bad movement patterns. I’m going to program them a training routine that helps them meet their goals. Most average person will benefit from compound lifts, Olympic lifts and Plyometrics. Again all these exercises improve their joint and muscles as well as their endurance and coordination. Cycling doesn’t do that and swimming doesn’t either. Swimming is a good workout but it’s not going to benefit weak people as much as weight training and doing Plyometrics aka jumping around will do

Edited November 24, 2024 by GoGoErky

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Some impact is good. You can't just float around in a bowl of jelly, even if you're strengthening muscles. Your bones, joints, etc. need to be strengthened, too, and that requires a little impact, a little compression…

 

You're making claims, too, so why aren't you responsible for backing them up, too? And why is what professional athletes do to stay fit and healthy irrelevant?

I have made no claims of 'science'.  And I did state in an earlier post that I could be wrong.  

 

A perfect diet and walking everyday will allow someone to live their maximum lifespan with the least amount of problems.  Would you agree with that?

 

Professional athletes train for maximum performance during their playing career and a lot of them have been shown to do things that are probably not best for them in the long term such as steroids.  They are also exceptional human beings who can do things that normal people cannot.    

 

My belief is that if a large group of average people did the exercises in the OP for 40 or 50 years some would thrive on it but I think that a larger then normal number would end up needing joint replacements.  If there is evidence to the contrary then I am happy to be proven wrong.  Until then I guess that I will continue to try to make people think and hopefully question stuff like this.  I would say that short term there are definitely benefits to doing that kind of training.  It is the long term that I question.    

 

 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

You’re stating opinions yet you aren’t backing it up with any data discrediting me, the science and data or to support your outdated opinion.

Not my intention.

[GoGoErky]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

have made no claims of 'science'.  And I did state in an earlier post that I could be wrong.  

You literally said that all the moments in the video and The kimono around are bad for a person. That’s a scientific claim about a movement. You birhsnit off as an opinion but an opinion is still form of claim. You double and tripled down on that claim, even when explained the benefits of Plyometrics on bones, joints and muscles indicating your not wrong.

 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

A perfect diet and walking everyday will allow someone to live their maximum lifespan with the least amount of problems.  Would you agree with that?

Nobody is disagreeing with this nor said it was bad. Walking is the best cardio for lowering cortisol. But it only has limited benefits compared to resistance training and Plyometrics (what you call jumping around)

 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Professional athletes train for maximum performance during their playing career and a lot of them have been shown to do things that are probably not best for them in the long term such as steroids.  They are also exceptional human beings who can do things that normal people cannot.    

I won’t get into the debate about steroids or peptides in sports or even in general, but many have a bad perception by the general public because of what they see and hear on tv about athletes, bodybuilders, etc. but many aren’t as bad as the tv and tv “experts” claim. There is plenty of research out there on this subject too if one wanted to dig into it.

 

A lot of them have shown to do dumb things like ride. A motorcycle and get in an accident and never play their sport again(Jay Williams) or play basketball in the offseason and get hurt and miss a good amount of their baseball season (Aaron Boome). These are choices made outside of the training room or against the advice of their training

staff). The decisions they make

in the training room are done for their performance on the field. They aren’t going to perform an exercise that’s going to put their chance of playing in

danger. Their training program is given to them by a strength and conditioning coach has has extensive knowledge, training and background in the anatomy, some if not all in biomechanics, how to program to achieve desired results. Their coaches are programming for them compound movements or variations of them like a box squat instead of a past parallel back squat or an atg olympic style squat. They may do a trap bar deadlift rather than a barbell deadlift . They have some type of jumping around because it allows them to create explosiveness. If someone making millions of dollars is jumping around it’s not bad for them or anyone else.

 

Saquon Barkley squats 650+ pounds. He has said it’s not to pack on size but it’s easier to shed a 350 pound player by squatting that much. If he ever needs a knee or hip replacement it won’t be from his workouts but rather from abuse

the body takes from his sport.

 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

My belief is that if a large group of average people did the exercises in the OP for 40 or 50 years some would thrive on it but I think that a larger then normal number would end up needing joint replacements.  If there is evidence to the contrary then I am happy to be proven wrong.  Until then I guess that I will continue to try to make people think and hopefully question stuff like this.  I would say that short term there are definitely benefits to doing that kind of training.  It is the long term that I question. 

There a millions of people who weight lift for decades, do some form of Plyometrics and don’t get hurt or require any type of jolt replacement. Why? It’s because these movements build strength in the bones, joints and muscles. I know mor average people who have had hip and knee replacements than I do of those

who squat heavy weights. 
 

The average person is out of shape, their bone density and strength deplete every year from a sedentary lifestyle and lack of any movement. 

to the bolded part, rather than trying to learn and improve your knowledge by going to do your son research you want to stay stuck in your own belief and opinion and have someone else provide evidence for you. 

 

Here’s a generic article from the web and another from Google scholar that is a professional one.

 

Maybe you’ll read these, maybe you won’t, but what i know is that the science is on the side of these exercises not being bad even for the average person. 
 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C21&q=plyometrics+training&oq=plyometrics#d=gs_qabs&t=1732448619548&u=%23p%3DrOpkVgSV7MUJ

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/a-z/what-is-plyometrics

Edited November 24, 2024 by GoGoErky

[GoGoErky]

5 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Not my intention.

It is, otherwise you would have provided some sort of research that shows I’m wrong, just as you claim I should do to

prove I’m not. At any point in your replies you could have provided a link to some paper or article showing your opinion is factual 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I have made no claims of 'science'.  And I did state in an earlier post that I could be wrong.

 

Here's the thing, man. I didn't use the word "science" in my post, and yet you quoted it like I did. I simply said you were making claims. You are, and you're not backing them up with anything but… anecdotal evidence, I guess.

 

From an outside perspective, as I don't really care to talk about this stuff as it's not my area of expertise (though I know how to read a scientific journal and did take a number of anatomy/biology/physiology classes in one of my degrees), you're making claims and arguing against a physical trainer, repeatedly, with nothing to back you up.

 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

A perfect diet and walking everyday will allow someone to live their maximum lifespan with the least amount of problems. Would you agree with that?

 

Not necessarily, and "a perfect diet" is going to vary by not only the person but the age and situation in which they find themselves. And some people's goal in life is not to just get through with "the least amount of problems," but to achieve more. Walking is good, and most people should walk way more than they do, but… walking isn't everything.

 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Professional athletes train for maximum performance during their playing career and a lot of them have been shown to do things that are probably not best for them in the long term such as steroids.

 

That's not relevant here. It's a straw man at best. Nobody's suggesting you do everything all athletes have ever done.

 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

They are also exceptional human beings who can do things that normal people cannot.

 

No, they're human beings, just like you and I. Just because some of them can throw a football better or hit a baseball better doesn't mean they're not human beings.

 

At the end of the day, what I'm saying to you @Nels55 is this: you too are making claims, so it's on you as well to back them up. If you have more than what you think or your anecdotal evidence, share it. Go find an article that backs up what you're saying to be true. Post it here.

 

If you're just trying to make others think, as you claim, then I would suggest you've done that already.

[bluedot]

11 hours ago, Nels55 said:

What pro athletes do is not relevant to the discussion.  I assert that cycling, swimming, yoga or other low impact exercise is far better for keeping an average person healthy and mobile over a long period of time then bouncing around on a hard surface.  As for the science aspect of it you made the claim so back it up.

This is a false choice.  
 

A well designed resistance training program is important.  Cardio work is also important. A good diet with portion control is also important.  Activities like cycling and swimming are also important.  And activities like plyometrics and yoga that help maintain mobility and flexibility are also important.

 

The idea that comes up on this forum quite often is that somehow resistance training is harmful and leads to joint replacements. It’s a complete fiction; there is a mountain of data about the benefits of resistance training in the aging process.  
 

Not only that, but a well designed lifting program can actually help to manage joint problems; I’m 72 and arthritic in both hips from decades as a tennis player, and then later as a golfer, with 10 years of throwing BP when my son was playing baseball.  I went to a PT and we developed a workout routine that has helped me manage the arthritis for nearly three years now with only minimal discomfort, while many of my less fit contemporaries have had joint replacement surgery.  
 

And guess what? The program the PT devised for me includes deadlifts and squats, as well as other resistance work on machines, and a lot of mobility work on the floor.  It all fits together; not much of this should be viewed as an “either/or” situation.

[johnrobison]

8 hours ago, Nels55 said:

A perfect diet and walking everyday will allow someone to live their maximum lifespan with the least amount of problems.  Would you agree with that?

It won't avoid sarcopenia so, no. And, especially as we age, bone density and connective tissue strength is essential. Walking will not get you there. Only resistance training will.

8 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Professional athletes train for maximum performance during their playing career and a lot of them have been shown to do things that are probably not best for them in the long term such as steroids.  They are also exceptional human beings who can do things that normal people cannot.    

While they may have special talents and have developed skills, their basic anatomy isn't necessarily exceptional.

8 hours ago, Nels55 said:

My belief is that if a large group of average people did the exercises in the OP for 40 or 50 years some would thrive on it but I think that a larger then normal number would end up needing joint replacements.  If there is evidence to the contrary then I am happy to be proven wrong.  Until then I guess that I will continue to try to make people think and hopefully question stuff like this.  I would say that short term there are definitely benefits to doing that kind of training.  It is the long term that I question.    

There is plenty of evidence in the population of people who do and who thrive. And plenty of evidence when you look at people who don't engage in resistance training and have weaker joints and are losing muscle.

[J.Bex]

Wow, what's going on?! Lol

 

I was just trying to inspire people to workout and show that it doesn't take much time nor equipment.

 

It's perspective.  @Nels55, I hear you.  Maybe you've had repercussions after years of impact that you regret.  We don't know your exercise past - if it there was regular or irregular lifting, good or mediocre form, swimming, jogging, sprinting, regular sports, etc.  Your experience is your experience, and you're entitled to your opinions.  A lot of things can happen.  Maybe you truly would have been better off just walking, swimming, and cycling through the decades.  Maybe the past lifting and impact yielded wear and tear on the back and joints.  Maybe there were one-off events.  Maybe lifting and jumping actually helped strengthen your resilience for more years than if you didn't do them.  Maybe you got a little more out of your heyday with that stuff, maybe not.  I don't know; that's your call.

 

On this forum there's always people asking what exercises to do, usually because they want to increase their swing speed.  They're not asking, "What are the best exercises for longevity?".  It's a good question, but it's more about performance right now and the foreseeable future.  It's people that believe they have potential and more in the tank, right now.  I'd think everyone has that to some degree.  Whether it’s improving your swing or getting healthier or fit, those are things pretty much everyone here wants, and can do, regardless of age.

 

The intent of this thread is for the fitness side of things for peak performance (our own relative peak).  Use your what you have while you have it.  Ready yourself for whatever athletic activity, and in doing so create a resilience that helps mitigate injuries during these activities. 

 

I can choose to exercise the way I do right now.  I can choose to stop at some point and go low impact for the rest of my life.  I choose the former because I believe it's best for what I want to achieve and promote to others who want to get fitter and potentially swing faster... at this time and hopefully for years to come.  Everyone can choose for their goals at this point in their life.

 

We can do all the low impact things we want:  Elliptical, swimming, yoga, etc.  We can be cautious and avoid compression and impact.  We can be in good shape for a long time.  But we won't be training to promote peak performance in athletic activities where we're doing explosive movements and putting a lot of force, quickly, into the ground.  Pros and average people alike, we're training for strength, for conditioning, for better generation of forces in our sport.  Can yoga and decompression stuff like pullups balance out effects from squats and jumping?  Maybe.  Maybe it's best to find try to find a balance of compression, impact, and decompression that works for an individual.

 

We all agree on the "listen to the body" front.  You (talking to everyone) don't need to do any of my exercises if you’re not interested nor if your body can't take impact.  But that's why I like to say to think for yourself, and adjust exercises to your abilities.  Yes, we want to be mindful of our future older selves, and adapt to changing bodies as we age, but we also have these physical goals to achieve... right now 🙂

[J.Bex]

I'm glad people are engaging / enraging 😆 on this thread even if not as expected...

 

But has anyone actually tried any of these 5 minute workouts or the new 20 min one??

 

The time it takes to post here could’ve been spent completing one lol.  Again regress/progress exercises as to your abilities.

[biker74]

Great thread.For many a year I would lift weights for an hour-two.Usually five to six days a week.Its great for the physique and health.But for golf it doesn’t mix well at times.Random “sore” body parts made swinging a golf club almost futile.Agree a lot of what Go Erky posted here.Resistance training during golf season is the way to go.Im going back to heavy lifting now during the off season.Or weeks where im not going to play zero golf.Its not worth wasting money on green fees when your arms/legs etc feel like jello on every swing.For me, heavy consistent lifting,cutting weight,endurance running… doesn’t seem to match well for trying to play or get better at golf.Fitness will always be a huge part of my life.Jave to change routines to accommodate for golf.Or just not golf or me 

Edited November 24, 2024 by Dunk89

[GoGoErky]

38 minutes ago, joostin said:

I'm glad people are engaging / enraging 😆 on this thread even if not as expected...

 

But has anyone actually tried any of these 5 minute workouts or the new 20 min one??

 

The time it takes to post here could’ve been spent completing one lol.  Again regress/progress exercises as to your abilities.

I haven’t and don’t plan to. It’s a workout that doesn’t fit with my goals for lifting as a powerlfiter or even in general fitness. 
 

Just based on your list in the video they aren’t bad. I would probably take a different approach to someone who has limited time and probably go with an emom workout that includes some of what you have and some other stuff 

[GoGoErky]

15 minutes ago, Dunk89 said:

Great thread.For many a year I would lift weights for an hour-two.Usually five to six days a week.Its great for the physique and health.But for golf it doesn’t mix well at times.Random “sore” body parts made swinging a golf club almost futile.Agree a lot of what Go Erky posted here.Resistance training during golf season is the way to go.Im going back to heavy lifting now during the off season.Or weeks where im not going to play zero golf.Its not worth wasting money on green fees when your arms/legs etc feel like jello on every swing.

We have to look at what is coursing the soreness and how it’s affecting movement. Soreness in terms of DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) isn’t necessarily a bad thing and will come from new stimulation or in some

cases over doing some exercise work. Soreness that’s more joint or muscular would need to be evaluated by a professional and as a cpt I would refer a client out to a PT.

 

Inconsistent training will lead to DOMS because the muscle are getting new stimulation each time training kicks up. Take a couple weeks off a training and then do the same workout intensity you were before the break and you’ll experience some DOMS. Swap an exercise out for another variation and one you haven’t done in awhile you will have soreness from the different type of stimulation

 

In general most people shouldn’t have soreness or DOMS after a training session. I’ve rarely have them and I train

between 90-120 mins 3-4 times a week with multiple sets of compound movements and depending on my programming at the time 5-7 accessories of 2-4 sets each. I personally have never had an issue with golfing either a round of golf or practice a workout or at any point during a training week. Several of those I golf with or associate with on the range who are more into bodybuilding work and they would experience DOMS more than I would and none of them have an issue with resistance training and golf. A couple of us have gone to the range straight from a 2 hour workout.

 

If someone is experiencing that type of issue frequently I would look at their technique, their programming and if they are sticking to the program or not. Resonance training actually benefits the golf swing. A stronger base to withstand the force and speed being applied during the swing. Plyometrics combined with resistance training has even more benefit because your creating explosives which will help with increasing swing speed.

 

Look at any workout the long drives guys do, even brysons workout. It’s not very different from most powerlifters or strength training athletes(by athlete I mean at any level of sports or just training in general).

[GoGoErky]

Just going to drop more research 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23821469/

[Nels55]

I seem to have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest here.  I will try to clarify my thoughts for anyone interested:

 

I have mentioned power cleans, squats and dead lifts as exercises that I think could be damaging to a person's back due to compression on the spine.  Also I suspect that a lot of jumping around every day could be.  I think i mentioned running a lot on pavement at some point.  

 

I think that there are alternatives to those exercises that are safer in the long run.  

 

Lol I have not mentioned curls with heavy weights or military presses but both of those hurt my back at this time.  I did a lot of those exercises over the years and I suspect based on my current condition that doing them may have been detrimental.   Not primary as I had other more primary injuries. 

 

I do workout on my total gym three times a week and I ride my stationary bike and walk when I play golf along with some back specific exercises.  Possibly this is sufficient to maintain my joint health and bone density?

 

I have stated my opinion based on my experience and that's all folks. 

 

 

[DKgolfAZ]

Definitely giving the first post a read later.

 

I’m a pilot, so I’m fairly limited on time and equipment when on the road. I generally focus on mobility being in a seat for hours on end, sometimes 4 days at a time.

 

a GREAT book recommendation I have is Golf Anatomy 2nd Edition to find exercises for specific parts of your body to work on if you have issues. 

[bilbry57]

I have trained 4-5 days since high school doing all the traditional lifts except power cleans ( no reason just hate doing them) weighed 135lbs when I started and at my strongest (45 years old) I squatted 495 , benched 355 and dead lifted 385.  Back then there were not many personal trainers I simply followed my best friend program which he did when playing college football. There was not much research per sport they just did a lot of volume and everyone got stronger.  Since the 70's  there is so much evidence regarding the benefits of resistance training especially for seniors. Squatting and deadlifts in particular are great exercises for all age levels.  Not going to post any articles but  just google Layne Norton he's a good source for peer review papers on resistance training and nutrition.  Right now I follow Mike Carroll's fit for golf program.  He has an easy to use app that's very affordable with different programs to fit your goals.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

have mentioned power cleans, squats and dead lifts as exercises that I think could be damaging to a person's back due to compression on the spine.  Also I suspect that a lot of jumping around every day could be.  I think i mentioned running a lot on pavement at some point.  

 

I think that there are alternatives to those exercises that are safer in the long run.  

Except the various research and studies show that your opinion isn’t factual anf yet despite exists in the field saying they are safe guy refuse to change your opinion. You wanted the science provided to you and it’s been provided. So you’ve either chosen to not read any of the articles posted or you have and refuse to accept the science to stay stuck in your ways based on anecdotes.

it’s the equivalent of saying 2+2=5 and trying to convince people it’s right when we know 2+2=4

 

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Lol I have not mentioned curls with heavy weights or military presses but both of those hurt my back at this time.  I did a lot of those exercises over the years and I suspect based on my current condition that doing them may have been detrimental.   Not primary as I had other more primary injuries. 

Biceps are a small muscles and don’t actually need a lot of weight to achieve stimulus and grow. If doing curls hurt your back then there’s a very good chance that your form is off and you are using too much body to curl the weight and dropping weight would be more beneficial rather than claiming bicep curls are bad for the back. 
 

I and going say that if overhead press hurts the back that technique is also an issue here to include not breathing and bracing or breathing and bracing incorrectly. That combined with form(based on experience as a lifter and trainer you’re probably leaning way back and putting undo pressure on the back while trying to out weight over your head. Bad form doesn’t equate to exercise being bad for the body.  Its not the exercise itself but the improper execution of the exercise.

 

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

have stated my opinion based on my experience and that's all folks. 

And it’s an inaccurate position. Pleas

provide data, studies or research lapses that support your opinion and contracts the hundreds studies and thousands and thousands of research that actually snow this opinion to be inaccurate on multiple levels.

 

Just like a lot of the bad information in the swing threads that multiple members post, bad information about resistance training needs to pointed out for those who come In and read these threads.

 

From the last article I posted. this means the long term you keep talking about has been looked at it and there isn’t long term negative affects. It’s quite the opposite

 

Abstract

It has been suggested that deep squats could cause an increased injury risk of the lumbar spine and the knee joints. Avoiding deep flexion has been recommended to minimize the magnitude of knee-joint forces. Unfortunately this suggestion has not taken the influence of the wrapping effect, functional adaptations and soft tissue contact between the back of thigh and calf into account. The aim of this literature review is to assess whether squats with less knee flexion (half/quarter squats) are safer on the musculoskeletal system than deep squats. A search of relevant scientific publications was conducted between March 2011 and January 2013 using PubMed. Over 164 articles were included in the review. 

Edited November 24, 2024 by GoGoErky

[GoGoErky]

55 minutes ago, DKgolfAZ said:

Definitely giving the first post a read later.

 

I’m a pilot, so I’m fairly limited on time and equipment when on the road. I generally focus on mobility being in a seat for hours on end, sometimes 4 days at a time.

 

a GREAT book recommendation I have is Golf Anatomy 2nd Edition to find exercises for specific parts of your body to work on if you have issues. 

Mobility is key for all of us especially those like you, myself and many who spend the majority of their day sitting. Hips, back, shoulders all suffer from this.

 

I would suggest looking at prehab guys website and YouTube for info too if you want some additional things to do or some alternatives to what you might be doing

[GoGoErky]

27 minutes ago, bilbry57 said:

I have trained 4-5 days since high school doing all the traditional lifts except power cleans ( no reason just hate doing them) weighed 135lbs when I started and at my strongest (45 years old) I squatted 495 , benched 355 and dead lifted 385.  Back then there were not many personal trainers I simply followed my best friend program which he did when playing college football. There was not much research per sport they just did a lot of volume and everyone got stronger.  Since the 70's  there is so much evidence regarding the benefits of resistance training especially for seniors. Squatting and deadlifts in particular are great exercises for all age levels.  Not going to post any articles but  just google Layne Norton he's a good source for peer review papers on resistance training and nutrition.  Right now I follow Mike Carroll's fit for golf program.  He has an easy to use app that's very affordable with different programs to fit your goals.

Those are some impressive numbers. I hate power cleans too. 

 

Layne Norton is a great resource. I am a subscriber to his website mostly for his analysis of studies. Layne is the GOAT in the fitness industry. He’s been debunking myths for 20+ years back on bodybuilding.com. He’s a bodybuilding champ, world powerlifting champ, at one point held the world record squat in his weight class. Has coached some

of the best in both worlds A PHD so he has both the educational background as well as decades of experience. The amount of information he has put over the last two decades is insane. One of the best residences on nutrition and training out there. 

[bluedot]

2 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

We have to look at what is coursing the soreness and how it’s affecting movement. Soreness in terms of DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) isn’t necessarily a bad thing and will come from new stimulation or in some

cases over doing some exercise work. Soreness that’s more joint or muscular would need to be evaluated by a professional and as a cpt I would refer a client out to a PT.

 

Inconsistent training will lead to DOMS because the muscle are getting new stimulation each time training kicks up. Take a couple weeks off a training and then do the same workout intensity you were before the break and you’ll experience some DOMS. Swap an exercise out for another variation and one you haven’t done in awhile you will have soreness from the different type of stimulation

 

In general most people shouldn’t have soreness or DOMS after a training session. I’ve rarely have them and I train

between 90-120 mins 3-4 times a week with multiple sets of compound movements and depending on my programming at the time 5-7 accessories of 2-4 sets each. I personally have never had an issue with golfing either a round of golf or practice a workout or at any point during a training week. Several of those I golf with or associate with on the range who are more into bodybuilding work and they would experience DOMS more than I would and none of them have an issue with resistance training and golf. A couple of us have gone to the range straight from a 2 hour workout.

 

If someone is experiencing that type of issue frequently I would look at their technique, their programming and if they are sticking to the program or not. Resonance training actually benefits the golf swing. A stronger base to withstand the force and speed being applied during the swing. Plyometrics combined with resistance training has even more benefit because your creating explosives which will help with increasing swing speed.

 

Look at any workout the long drives guys do, even brysons workout. It’s not very different from most powerlifters or strength training athletes(by athlete I mean at any level of sports or just training in general).

Agreed on all counts. 

 

Some will disagree with this, but soreness and fatigue from lifting is more about the number of sets and reps than the weight.  If I have a tournament the next day or I'm unusually fatigued, I'll maybe go from three to two sets of each lift, and if the prescribed number of reps is 10, I might cut to 8 or even 5.

 

Lifting regularly with proper technique rarely leads to soreness, at least in my experience.  I'm OLD, and even I don't get sore from lifting; I no longer lift on days when I'm going to play, but that's much more about fatigue than any kind of soreness.  And when I lift and then go practice, only very rarely do I notice any adverse effects, and it's always when I've done something new in the weight room.

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Mobility is key for all of us especially those like you, myself and many who spend the majority of their day sitting. Hips, back, shoulders all suffer from this.

 

I would suggest looking at prehab guys website and YouTube for info too if you want some additional things to do or some alternatives to what you might be doing

Agree with this.

 

work to get the mobility and build strength across the range of motion.  
 

there was a weird period in strength training where it became popular to limit/restrict range of motion in the knees/hips/spine to “protect” them.  What research and science is informing us now is that was wrong, working to increase range of motion where you maintain muscular control of the position you get in/out is not only not bad, but extremely beneficial to the health of the joints.

 

what I would say is if you unfamiliar with this type training, I would work with a professional to get started on a program based on your goals.  Long term progress.

[bilbry57]

I agree with everything you posted in this topic. My point in posting is the even a weak High school basketball player can get huge gains without getting injured by resistance training.  I started only able to bench 135lbs the guys I lifted with started their sets at 225lbs and made me use the "baby bench" until I could bench 135.  Like you mentioned people can improve their strength quickly if they put in the work.

Even at 66 I had not trained heavy for 12 years and within 60 days I went from 205 bench to 260 ( my son thinks I can still do 300 if I continued) but f I gain to much size in chest and it limits my already short BS🤣.  
 

 You are so right about the fact that seniors will  benefit from resistance training yes including Squats and dead lifts.  I think it's like speed training often times senior golfers will increase the most % percentage wise if they give a full go. Curious your thoughts but I think it's similar in resistance training (% increases) assuming no injuries.

Totally in agreement Layne is the goat its fun listening to him shred people on you tube that put out BS information.

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by bilbry57

[GoGoErky]

13 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Agree with this.

 

work to get the mobility and build strength across the range of motion.  
 

there was a weird period in strength training where it became popular to limit/restrict range of motion in the knees/hips/spine to “protect” them.  What research and science is informing us now is that was wrong, working to increase range of motion where you maintain muscular control of the position you get in/out is not only not bad, but extremely beneficial to the health of the joints.

 

what I would say is if you unfamiliar with this type training, I would work with a professional to get started on a program based on your goals.  Long term progress.

Yeah there have been some weird stages in lifting and golf with restricted movement. The crazy thing is there are still people in the gym today doing 1/4 squats of way above parallel. So many with bad form on deadlifts that are begging to hurt their back. I see it on a daily basis at my gym. The frustrating part is I see trainers allowing their clients to use bad form and continue to add weight. I doubt they have done any movement assessment of their clients before having them perform exercises.

 

As a population we have so much free information at our fingertips on how to perform exercises, even a bunch of good free programs from highly qualified coaches, low cost programs from the same or other highly qualified coaches. We have access to the science of training and yet a large portion of the population ignores all this to do what they thing is right